Biggin Hill (EGKB)

[Bumz_Rush]

What are the limitations for Scheduled traffic to use Biggin as its destination.????

I have seen diversions from Gatwick, and even City, in the past.

Maintainance base for City Airport, and a night stop base in the past.

The terminal is rather sweet, but fully functional.

Bumz

[MEON VALLEY FLYER]

It's was a condition of the planning permission when they increased movements allowed. NO schedueld flights.

[Yak97]

I remember that Biggin Hill was banned at one stage from having scheduled services. I've looked at the airport website and the latest info under "history" is:

QUOTE

2000 Some six years after the Airport sale to BHAL, Bromley Council sought to ban individual fare paying passengers from using the Airport, saying that it had not been their intention to permit the operation of aircraft carrying individual fare paying passengers in 1994, but that they would consider applications on a ‘case by case’ basis.

2002 The matter is still not finally resolved and flights on which individuals can buy a ticket have not yet been approved by the Council.

UNQUOTE

Has this been resolved??

[SATCO Biggin]

Has this been resolved??

In a single word 'No'. The argument rumbles on albeit at a lower volume than a few years ago. The local council still maintain that the 'lease' under which the airport is operated excludes scheduled services, the airport operators view is the opposite. It is a fact of history that the operator of the airport prior to 1994 did have limited scheduled service flights but the council says this was not transferred to the current operators rights.

Bromley council say they welcome the growth of the airport but only whilst continuing to protect the local environment which is why they frequently take an opposing standpoint in any development plan. Despite airport advice to the contrary their planning committee continue to approve the building of new residential properties under the runway approaches, and when given a choice of two sites to build a major hospital they chose the one 2.5 mile final for the main runway!

Within the last few days they have turned down an airport planning application for a hotel on the airport despite their own chief planner recommending the project.

Biggin Hill continues to attract all types of aircraft operation allowed within the terms of their lease. Business traffic continues to grow and the arrival of Jet Aviation a few years ago gave a boost to this side of the operation.

For information the limitations placed in the airport lease do not mention aircraft size, only noise(basically Chapter 3 aircraft only) so we can accept BBJ's A319CJ and all compliant Gulfstream, Bombardier, Embraer etc types in any numbers providing we do not exceed the maximum movement figure of 125,000 per annum. It appears that if the people inside those aircraft have bought their tickets they cannot land at Biggin Hill, if however it is a whole aircraft charter by a company then there is no restriction.

Not being able to accept scheduled flights is an unwanted restriction to business at a time when government policy is to increase runway capacity in southeast England. It is not preventing us from running a successful business and we welcome new customers and existing friends alike.

[niknak]

Charters and executive operations are one thing, but scheduled services are a completely different kettle of fish for any airport.

Given local competition from Gatwick and City, I wonder if there is a local demand suffcient to support any schedule services out of Biggin Hill, if so, where would they go?

Unlike charters, any operator of scheduled flights would demand significant concessions from the owners of Biggin to start up there, i.e. reduced or even no landing and parking fees, very low or no passenger taxes, free check in desks and very low rental offices for staff.
Additionally there are increased DOT Security requirements for staffing and equipment (which Biggin will have to pay for).
Don't forget that schedules must operate the service they have been licensed to do, so it doesnt matter if there are 50 or just 1 passenger - the flight is obliged to operate regardless of projected costs or revenue.

As much as I'd like to see Biggin get into the scheduled services market (at least SATCO B might get a bigger budget:eek: ) if was going to happen, potential operators would have forced their way in by now.

[SATCO Biggin]

NikNak

There has been considerable interest to start up schedules from Biggin over the last few years. As Yak97 says these should be considered by the council on a case by case basis. They were submitted to the council and rejected, case by case. We even tweaked down aircraft sizes to the point I personally doubt they could have survived financially to see if that would assist in getting things started. It didn't !!

As far as Security is concerned we have had the necessary equipment and trained staff for several years albeit on just two check in desks and one secure departure gate. More than enough to get things started and we have no worries about increasing this if traffic loads require.

The council remain steadfast in their negative attitude and no operator has been able to 'force' their way in.

[chevvron]

The lid of 125,000 pa presumably is total airfield movements ie including all VFR private/recreational/club movements; is there a hidden quota of (say) bizjets included in that figure?

[Buster the Bear]

They were probably Biz Jets. I understand that there is (or has been ) a 727 based there?

[x933]

There was a 727 parked up on the ramp outside the main terminal when I was there last weekend. Can't remember the tail number, was VP-somethingorother.

[pabely]

What annual numbers is Biggin running at?

[Reidyboy]

A privately owned 737 has been in and out a few times:ok:

[Surrey Towers]

Bromley Council are probably the most difficult council to deal with in the country - I speak from experience. They will never allow Biggin to go commercial/schedule, that has been tried many times over many many years and I can go back to 1980! There were others before that too.

The locals in the Valley were continually vociferous with their anti-Biggin-itis. Many, and I mean many, moved there knowing full well what to expect and then simply joined the ban brigade. Support by the council has never been in favour of any kind of growth on the airfield, although some has taken place for smaller businesses. Now it has grown even larger by development so there are too many locals in a larger area who would not vote for any councillor who supported the airfield - they would lose their seats.

Biggin has NO future. It goes on as it is or it dies. Ultimately I think it will be the latter. Chasing rainbows at Biggin is a lost cause.

Many firms have thrown money at Biggin in the hope they could win the hearts and minds of the locals but it was just a waste. The idea that the Council would judge a proposed service from Biggin on a case by case basis has, to my knowledge, been a loser. An arrangement such as that has no hope of getting past the council. Bromley Council had to buy the airfield but I, and many others, have always said that they would contrive one day to turn it into a housing development. It is probably because of the lousy transport system between Biggin and Bromley South that they have not been able to do it sooner. Who knows? One day they might extend the tram system from Addington to Biggin if they do close it down. People would demand a better system too.

Biggin has ALWAYS had it advantages but no one, not one, has been able to exploit them because of the intransigence of the council towards any kind of air traffic growth. As we speak there are limitations on that. It is only a question of time before the hammer falls.

[coolbeans]

A smidgen negative there surrey.

Biggins doing pretty well on the bizjet front, doesnt seem to need to pursue the scheduled flight option (how well is that working for london oxford?)

I certainly dont think Biggin is going to die.

Personally it does get on my wick when people move next to an airport and then proceed to complain about said airport, but I've found the majority of biggin residents to be fairly supportive of the airport.


Bringing this back to the top, surprised there aren't any Biggin Hill people around on here these days.

Hope things are going ok down there.

Good luck to all of them.

I'd post more regularly but people may take offence.

What annual numbers is Biggin running at?

I think its running at a little over half its 125000 cap, but thats based on a sketchy memory of a conversation i really wasnt paying attention to...

[Andy Mayes]

Dubai Provides New Airport Manager for London Biggin Hill: AINonline (http://tinyurl.com/24ukwf4)

So they've got rid of the old Boss, I wonder if the new one will re-instate the Air Fair?

[MacLaren1]

I did a conversion course there many years ago – very welcoming and warm. A bit sterile today, but they are second to none for air shows (you used to be able to fly into these).

The airport has a current issue with large models operating within their ATZ – they say:

“What is certain is that the airports customers are growing more concerned about the apparent hazard.”

No wonder – models and full size?? :eek:

[ChrisGr31]

What land is actually included within the airfield lease? In many cases it is not the aircraft movements, parking fees or fuel sales trhat make an airfield profitable. They make their money from rental income from the buildings on the site which are let out. There are a huge numer of commercial buildings on the edge of Biggin Hill but I dont know which are on land which is contained within the airfield lease.

[MacLaren1]

Sightings of model aircraft in the circuit and one confirmed air prox report at Wiki - see: Biggin Hill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biggin_Hill) :uhoh: Does there have to be an accident first???:eek:

[Great Charmer]

Heard a rumour that the present MD at Biggin is retiring, what surprised me was who the MD is being replaced with, to the extent that I assumed it was an inaccurate rumour!

Anyone know anymore or is it all still hush hush?

[asdf1234]

It is a rumour network so you are allowed to repeat unreliable and preposterous hearsay....

My guess is that the recently ousted Alistair Welch has grovelled to his previous employers and would relish getting back to the relative obscurity of a flying club and general aviation airport....

Discuss.

[Barling Magna]

Possibly, but Alistair Welch performed a near miracle at Southend so I expect he'll go to some other airport with potential............... Manston, Cambridge, Lydd, Kidlington, Durham Tees Valley, Compton Abbas..........?

[Expressflight]

When I spoke with him a few days ago that sort of thing didn't sound likely, but who knows.

Oh, and I can't see him grovelling somehow

[Barling Magna]

Was it a parting of the ways of Mr Welch's choosing, or a "mutual" decision?

[Expressflight]

I didn't think it was appropriate that I should ask that question.

[Barling Magna]

Fair enough. I'm amazed at what he achieved at SEN, maybe he can galvanise Biggin too.

[asdf1234]

I'm not sure Biggin needs galvanising. It is a specialist business aviation airport and as such is doing very well.

As for AW's achievements at SEN he spent a reported £100m on developing an airport to attract a handful of easyJet aircraft delivering £100k in EBITDA profits in year 1. On that performance Stobart's can expect a payback in around a 1,000 years! No doubt the easyJet sweetheart deal that brought them in is contributing to the paltry profits but who signed it off?

Behind the scenes the airport has failed to attract new tenants and has seen established tenants leave.

All hail the messiah Alistair Welch. :ugh:

[Expressflight]

I'm really surprised that your understanding of the achievements at SEN is so lacking asdf1234. The figures you 'quote' merely underline this. Would you really expect the regeneration of the facility to result in large operating profits in the first year?

You could at least have spelt his name correctly when expressing your obvious enmity towards him.

[Great Charmer]

Who is Alistair Welsh?

[Phileas Fogg]

Is this "Terms and Endearment", "Where Are They Now?" or, indeed, "Airlines, Airports & Routes"?

[Barling Magna]

Or even Around the World in Eighty Days, Phileas.

[asdf1234]

I'm conscious that this is a Biggin Hill forum and I my original intention was to tease out the name of the MD that Great Charmer has alluded to. So I might as well ask the direct question, "Great Charmer, what name was it that you heard in connection with the MD's job at Biggin Hill?"

[ For the SEN thread if the mods want to move it: I think my understanding of the figures is better than others that post on here. The profit made my be impaired by certain one-off costs that the airport will not see again next year but the vast majority of infrastructure and start-up costs will be either amortised over the long term or accrued for over the medium term in line with the income projections from the EasyJet agreement, and as such do not affect the EBITDA results that Stobart released.

I think the figures were significantly poorer than expected and that is why Stobart decided to up their passenger forecasts from 2m pax per annum (almost no chance of a payback on investment in the next 500 years) to 5m pax per annum (a slightly better chance of a payback in the next 25 - 50 years).

Until the airport gets some new year-round based aircraft they will be forever reliant on the easyJet contract which will likely have a 90 day termination clause in it somewhere. Loco's don't pay a lot to be at airports - if they pay at all. The airport has to derive their income from car parking and concessions in the terminal building. Maybe the new extension once opened will have more in the way of quality concessions to raise income levels.

[Great Charmer]

AIUI it has been made public as of today so in fact no longer a rumour. The new MD of Biggin Hill is of Gold Air fame (amongst several others the names of which escape me), Will Curtis.

[asdf1234]

I wonder what happened for Jenny Munro to leave?

Good luck to Will Curtis. He has been at the airfield for a number of years and was at the helm for the building and opening of the fabulous Rizon Jet facility.