Night Flying with an FAA PPL based on foreign license??

[genius747]

Hi all,
A quick question... hoping someone has a quick answer...

If one has the little green card, an FAA PPL, issued on the basis of a foreign (JAA PPL) and valid only when accompanied by the valid foreign license and medical.

If the JAA PPL has a night qualification on it, is the pilot then legal to fly night VFR in the states (assuming currency is met)??

Thanks for any help.

G74

[SILENT_BADGER]

Yes you are allowed to exercise the night rating on your JAR PPL with the FAA PPL issued on the strength of the JAR one. I did it recently whilst hour building in Florida.

Cheers

[B200Drvr]

I agree, FAA has no night rating, so based on the fact that you have a night rating on you original certificate you would be legal.

[genius747]

Ok, I see, but if the FAA has no night rating, how do some people have night privilages on their FAA PPLs??

Interesting...

[Superpilot]

I think it's a new thing, so the older ones might still have it stated? :confused:

[IO540]

how do some people have night privilages on their FAA PPLs??

Because the FAA PPL training includes night flight (including a night cross country) as standard.

I vaguely recall there is an option to get out of it if you live in Alaska or something like that...

This potentially leads to a common but interminable debate that the USA allows night flight under VFR whereas in the UK night flight is normally under IFR, and the FARs require flight under IFR to have a pilot with an IR, so a plain FAA PPL holder (no IR) may or may not be able to fly here at night... time to get out of there at this point :O

Anyway, pilots who have done a standalone FAA PPL, and have used their UK training (including the Night Qualification / Night Rating) towards the FAA logbook requirement (as I did), often get caught out by this extra FAA night requirement.

Other differences are that the FAA requires 3 takeoffs and 3 landings at night (within the last 90 days) before night passenger carriage, whereas the CAA requires just 1 set.

[dublinpilot]

Other differences are that the FAA requires 3 takeoffs and 3 landings at night (within the last 90 days) before night passenger carriage, whereas the CAA requires just 1 set.

That's interesting. The IAA in their wisdom insist on 3 at night.

From the Personnel Licensing Order 2000:

"(b) The holder of a private pilot licence (aeroplane) shall not act as pilot in-
command of an aeroplane carrying passengers unless within the
preceding 90 days that holder has made three take-offs, circuits and
landings as the sole manipulator of the controls in an aeroplane of the
same type or class; if the privileges are to be exercised at night the
holder shall have completed the aforementioned requirements by
night."

So much for harmonisation!

dp

[IO540]

Another goodie, and I hope I have this right (I have an FAA IR but not a JAA IR) is that an FAA IR holder still needs the 3+3N in last 90d for passenger carriage, whereas a JAA IR holder doesn't need any night recency at all for carrying passengers.

There is a huge amount of variation within JAA member states. Look at the mandatory equipment carriage requirements (AIP GEN 1.5) for IFR. Not two the same. If you want to fly IFR around Europe, you are better off not knowing any of this :O

[Charley]

IO540, you are indeed correct. A JAA IR confers nighttime passenger-carrying rights as long as the holder is generally current in terms of the 90-day rule, even if that currency is 'earned' with daytime only ops.

[IO540]

Since the IR checkride is done during the day, doesn't this mean that someone with a JAA IR who has not flown any night for 5-10 years, could do night passenger carriage?

I realise "night flight = instrument flight" for most practical purposes (which raises the whole question of plain-PPL night privileges...) but it's curious.

[DFC]

Since the IR checkride is done during the day, doesn't this mean that someone with a JAA IR who has not flown any night for 5-10 years, could do night passenger carriage?
I realise "night flight = instrument flight" for most practical purposes (which raises the whole question of plain-PPL night privileges...) but it's curious.

Yes!

This is not simply JAA but has been common in other countries for years.

Logic is that a) you can not get the IR without having night experience and b) having seen what it is like, landing at night in VMC is no worse than landing IMC. Enroute - no difference.

As for plain privileges and the fact that much night flight requires instrument reference, that is why there has always been a requrement for instrument training before getting a night rating or qualification even before they introduced the instrument bit to the PPL course.

ICAO provides very little guidance on visual night flight (night VFR) and specifically leaves it up to each State to decide an publish just how they are going to handle this issue.

Personally, I think that the UK system provides a good compromise between freedom of flying at night and putting some safeguards in place.

Regards,

DFC