Class B Airspace(usa)

[pakeha-boy]

Would like to know if controllers in the continental USA,would agree that class B airspace for IFR,Jet traffic is obsolete????..
I fly in/out of San Jose and Las Vegas on many occasions.....there are several areas where we pass in and out of this airspace .....when cleared for the ILS into vegas day/vmc...we decend through class B airspace now restricting us to 200kts...yet the controllers on many occassions ask us to keep the speed up...210KTS or better.....are we in compliance????

Coming out of San Jose,the departure....Nth dep...south Turn restricts us to 200kts because of KSFO,S airspace,until 5000 and (Cant remember the radial),and this is on an IFR clearance.....

The problem I have is that ,we are in radar contact,most other traffic is...why the speed restrictions,it has never really served any purpose,most of us blow it off ....and controllers never say a thing.....PB

[Scott Voigt]

The speed restriction of I believe 200 is for below the class B and not in it, in class B it is still 250 KIAS for our restriction below 10,000. The reason for the slower speed below the class B is that this is where you are going to find the slower GA aircraft and it gives them time to find you in a see and avoid territory that they are operating in. As to the Loop departure our of SJC, if you exceed 200 KIAS, there is a good chance that your turn radius is going to increase to something larger than is being protected for the airspace that you are supposed to be climbing in. You have to remember that you are being separated from aircraft that are going into SFO, OAK and even HWD as well as numerous other airports. We don't build in restrictions if there is no need for them. As to coming out of class B and you keep your speed up, technically you are in violation as the controller can not waive that restriction to the FAR. If you don't have an inspector on your jumpseat, no one would probably ever know. If you are being assigned an airspeed and are not flying it (that is what I gathered from your post, if not I am sorry.) then in my opinion, you shouldn't be flying. Stated as a pilot and a controller in the colonies...
Here is the applicable FAR...
Sec. 91.117 - Aircraft speed.
(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).
(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.
[Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34292, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91-219, 55 FR 34708, Aug. 24, 1990; Amdt. 91-227, 56 FR 65657, Dec. 17, 1991; Amdt. 91-233, 58 FR 43554, Aug. 17, 1993]
regards
Scott

[datafox]

Yes, unless you operating below a Class B shelf in the United States your "standard" speed restriction is 250 knots below 10,000 ft. MSL.

I find the Class B shelf speed restriction somewhat problematic in areas where shelfs are quite high. For example, in Atlanta (KATL) part of the class B airspace starts at 10,000 feet and ends at 12,500 feet (I think). That means a business jet going into a satellite airport must slow down to 200 knots while ATL TRACON vectors us around the side of the airspace. Seems silly to slow to 200 knots at 9,000 feet.

What airspace is used in metropolitian areas in Europe? Class C?

[foghorn]

What airspace is used in metropolitian areas in Europe? Class C?

If it is possible to generalise, generally Europe has Class C CTRs with Class A at higher levels. The UK has Class D CTRs with Class A at higher levels except London Heathrow where the Class A goes all the way down to the ground.

[pakeha-boy]

Scott...thanks for the reply and informative......first ,I do not ignore ATC,or FAA manadated or assigned speeds....the sytem only works if we comply with all requests and follow the rules.....KORD is a perfect example if you dont play the game......
I understand it is below class B airspace,and probably didnt word that well.The problem occurs of being in Class B and then transitioning below and then back into.....
The rules pertaining to the opreation of the aircraft,that if the speed for operating is above the 200kts ,because of config,t/o speeds....just about always applys to KSJO....Usually 215-225....for climb profile speed......

as for the "seeing" of other aircraft....there are so many airports which have a high density traffic flow ,that dont have a class B restricton ,yet we maintain high speeds...(250kts and below)when transitioning.

My other point is this..Canada for instance.....When departing CYVR....When above 3000,and cleared to an altitude above 10,000 ,you can exceed the 250 kts rule ...works well for them......problems occur when getting close to US airspace now you really have to watch your speed....

I dont make the the rules I just follow them....Class B airspace,airspeed rules seem to be problematic and at times confusing....I always have the chart(jepp) out for reference but these themselves are somtimes confusing to read

thanks for the input...PB