VFR Autoland??

[YFlex]

For those of you behind the scope....Question:

I informed Tower the other day when cleared to land on a CAT I Rwy..."This will be a autoland"....Is there any need for ATC to know when an aircraft is doing a autoland when CATII/III ops are "not" in effect, or on a CATI Rwy?

"LAND3 Flare and Rollout Armed"

Cheers

[Pronutro Puff]

YFlex,
In my part of the world certain safe gaurds have to be in place for an auto land, and if these are not in place we are requested to inform the pilot that not all the equipment is suitable for an autoland.
Hope that helps.

[BN2A]

When doing practice autolands, we've been informed by the tower that "full protection is not available"...

Guessing that means that aircraft waiting to depart are still using the Cat I holds?
But as you're Cat I, the captain will be ready to disconnect the automatics in case it gets funky!!

:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Guessing that means that aircraft waiting to depart are still using the Cat I holds?>>

Yes... and the possibility of vehicles within the localiser sensitive area - grass cutters, etc.

[Gonzo]

Yflex,

Yes, tell ATC so that we can warn you that the ILS will not have CAT3 protection.

[Del Prado]

If the pilot is aware there is no cat 3 protection should they still tell ATC?

YFlex stated he was landing on a cat1 runway. he knew there was no protection. what benefit is there of telling ATC?

[discountinvestigator]

Some airlines are authorised to use autoland on a CAT I approach, because some of the infrastructure is not there to support the actual operation, but the beam is straight enough.

OK, so if you do not have the TDZ lighting, no CAT II/III landings. No standby power supply with 1 second change over. No centreline lights and so on.

These are practice autolands and not real autolands. You have to be prepared to take over if it does not work well.

The critical areas should be protected anyway, as you are running a CAT I ILS.

The sensitive areas may not be protected, so expect beam bends from the LOC at any stage. Vehicles driving in front of it, previous landing vacating, previous departure overflying etc.

The safeguarding process for "ATC Low Visibility Procedures" may not be in place, even though the LSZ is free, so ATC cannot clear you.

For a pilot to declare Autoland on a CAT III approved ILS, this is not too much of a problem if the crew are ready to take over. For a pilot to declare Autoland on a CAT I approved ILS that the company does not have written instructions to the crew that this is acceptable, is negligent. The company must have approved the crew to do it. The company must have audited the airport and the navigation equipment prior to such a declaration. This would include inspection of the flight check and ground check calibration runs and so on.

Does that help?

[Gonzo]

Del Prado, you are correct, but I'd still like the crew to tell me, so that we both know what's happening.

[M609]

I had to laugh a couple of moths ago, when a charter 737 informed me he would be doing a practice autoland on our ILS28. :E

When I was done laughing, I informed him that it was probably not a bright idea, since the LLZ is offset 2 degrees north, and the GP has 25ft negative RDH.

After studying his chart, he agreed! :O

[YFlex]

"Discount" and to all..Thank you for taking time with your replys!

While often asked by Mtc. to re-certify the CATIII capability of the aircraft by doing a VFR autoland your opinions are much appreciated!

Bottom line (no pun intended) ready to disconnect or not on a CATI runway....it's my "ar#e" on the line if anything goes wrong.

Future Tech Log entry.." Unable autoland due no CATII/III runway available"

"Land3 Flare and Rollout Armed"

YFlex :ok:

[discountinvestigator]

From the dim and distant past when working at AMS/EHAM then they classified their ILS systems to allow this type of thing. They had some bends in their system which were good for rollout guidance but might get wobbly around the 100 feet level.

Of course, remember that MAN/EGCC has its own issues with Runway 06L for CAT C and D approach category aircraft.

I forgot to put into the general requirements the bits relating to Precision Approach Terrain Chart requirements, and apart from surveying, to make sure the land is relatively flat prior to landing for radalt to work. Then we have the sloping runway issue to take into account. Runways with a 2% downslope are not a good idea as the flare keeps you going down the runway at the same rate as the ground falls away.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Lots of good comment on the protection needed for ILS operations in low vis, however, if the Autoland was being made in VFR (VMC would be a better terminology :ok: ) as per the original post tital, presumably someone is looking out of the cockpit window anyway and would pick up any deviation from the visual 'glideslope' and 'approach track' ? At that point you would then expect the pilot(s) to take appropriate corrective action :)

[YFlex]

"VMC Autoland"....Indeed, I stand corrected.
Cheers!!

Any further comments, most appreciated.

YFlex