To share or to hire

[modelman]

Currently studying for PPL :) and looking to the future regards flying costs.
I see my flying being very much a once/twice a month event.
I am comparing a/c share with just hiring. If you get a share for 6K and pay 60/month and 65/hr then with 4 hrs a month usage that is £320/month.If you spread the share cost over 3 years that's £2000 pa or £166/month.Monthly cost £486.00 for 4 hours flying in the first 3 years.This does not of course include any unforseen expense that the monthly charge may not meet.You can of course always sell your share.
Average cost to rent something small is about £100/hr so this way that's nearly another hour/month hassle free.You can also fly many different makes this way.
The thought of having a share in an a/c sounds very appealing but I could use some advice ( and a check on the above maths) and guidance.
Modelman

[Whirlybird]

For me, the one major advantage of a share is being able to take the aircraft away for a day, a weekend, a week, or whatever. Very few schools/clubs will allow this; usually you get an hour or two at most. I reckon it's worth paying extra for that availability.

[Human Factor]

You're on the right lines. However, IMHO it's best to forget (and I use that word advisedly) the initial £6k outlay. I say this on the basis that at some point you will come to sell your share and get most if not all of that back, so I would look mainly at the monthly fee and the dry hourly rate. You will obviously have to pay fuel on top. My group charges £65 pcm and £150 ph wet (of which a proportion, around £50 per hour goes into the fund) but there is no specific engine fund. If we needed a new engine, all ten of us would be expected to chip in. That's not a problem, provided you know the score when you sign up. For me, it means I can fly a well performing aeroplane (Yak52) for more or less the same hourly price as a rental Warrior provided I do more than two hours a month. I don't worry about the cost of the share as someone will buy it from me if I'm ever daft enough to sell it.

Generally speaking, I would suggest you will break even in a well run syndicate (with a sensible engine/expenses fund) if you do more than about 3 hours a month.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Currently studying for PPL :) and looking to the future regards flying costs.
I see my flying being very much a once/twice a month event.
I am comparing a/c share with just hiring. If you get a share for 6K and pay 60/month and 65/hr then with 4 hrs a month usage that is £320/month.If you spread the share cost over 3 years that's £2000 pa or £166/month.Monthly cost £486.00 for 4 hours flying in the first 3 years.This does not of course include any unforseen expense that the monthly charge may not meet.You can of course always sell your share.
Average cost to rent something small is about £100/hr so this way that's nearly another hour/month hassle free.You can also fly many different makes this way.
The thought of having a share in an a/c sounds very appealing but I could use some advice ( and a check on the above maths) and guidance.
Modelman

It varies with share.

My current share cost me £3k, I pay £60/month and in theory £48/hr (in practice nearer £35 due to the tacho and the fact that I tend to treat engines gently). I typically fly about 36 hours per year.

So, that's about £55/hr.

If you want to amortise my £3k investment over 3 years, that would be £83/hr, but that's artificial since I'll get the money back if/when I ever leave.

The actual aeroplane type couldn't be hired (another important aspect of owning a share, there are many more interesting types available than on the rental market), but the nearest equivalent at a local airfield would probably cost about £130/hr. Add in that I can take our syndicate aeroplane away for days or even weeks occasionally - you try doing that with a rental aeroplane and not flying it for a few days!

Of-course, the larger the share you own, the more your flying will cost you. I've at various times owned 1/2, 1/17th, 1/10th, 1/12th and 1/20th of an aeroplane. The availability has never been a problem for any of those (except the 1/2 because there were only two of us to fix it when something went wrong), only the costs! Go for a smaller share in a big syndicate so long as the aeroplane and syndicate rules suit you would be my advice.

Another big plus for me personally is that I get to know the individual aeroplane well - you just can't do that with a rental.

G

[camlobe]

This is probably the most common decision PPL's try and make following the award of their licence, buy or hire.

There are strong swing-and-roundabout arguments from all sides and neither will completely satisfy all of your requirements.

At the end of the day, the two most important issues for you will be price and availabilty.

Most clubs have more than one aircraft and have daily or weekend/longer period rates. You will also know how much it will cost beforehand, and if the aircraft breaks, the club should pick up the bill, unless there is some questionable small print - aviod this option. Price and availability pretty well sorted this way.

If you enter a well organised group (and there are a number that arn't) you will be able to enjoy good availability unless other members of the group want to fly at the same time as yourself (potentially the same scenario as some club hire). Your hourly rate will work out to be lower. You can have an input as to Avionic upgrades, interior retrim etc but not all the other group members will see things your way. You will be in part at least, bearing the cost for breakdowns, engine overhauls, prop replacements etc. You can try and impress your friends with the 'I own an aircraft share'.

These are only some of the things to take into account. You will recieve further advice as well as what has already been posted above. My advice to you is listen to it all and make up your mind in slow time. While you are deciding, the club aircraft will still be available for hiring.

[strafer]

If cost is a factor, there are groups available which don't require any capital outlay (I paid £500 in mine, but that's to cover the insurance excess).

Have a look at the group flying section in thehangar.co.uk to give yourself an idea of what's out there.

[Kolibear]

You really do need to be very sure that you will continue flying after getting your PPL before buying a share. Getting the PPL is 'quite' easy, keeping it current afterwards is the difficult part. The drop-out rate for PPL below 100hrs is something like 90%.

4 hrs a month may not sound a lot, but if you can only fly at weekends and have other commitments, then it can be difficult. With the very best will in the world, I've only been averaging 30 hrs per year and none at all this year.

I suggest that you get your PPL and then continue hiring for a year to get your confidence rating. If you are still flying after twelve months, then start looking for a share.

Be aware that some insurance companys will load the premium if you have low hours, 250hrs is a figure I've been quoted. Check that the group/insurance is aware of your hours and be prepared to pay an excess.

As far as share costs goes, you get what you pay for. Zero-capital = dog, as there is no sense of ownership in the aircraft.

I bought a share in an aircraft, and it was the best move I could have made.

Enjoy your flying, however you do it.

[robin]

Problem I find is that those with money to invest in a share are not always the ones I want in my group. Those I do want, don't have the money.

[strafer]

Zero-capital = dog

Not true in my case Kolibear.

[18greens]

I've got to disagree with Zero Capital=Dog. In my experience perhaps the opposite is true.

A zero capital group is usually there because the owner wants total control over their baby and they tend to look after them well. I think Zero capital is the way to go. Walk away as soon as it gets sticky.

And then theres the view that if it flies, floats or f****s its always cheaper to rent it. (No-one ever beleives this until they have owned a boat or a plane).

[Hairyplane]

The drop out rate is worryingly high. Am I right also in believing that the UK PPL population is shrinking ( I wish I was shrinking....)??

Anyway, if you opt for self-fly hire you are even more likely to give it up.The reasons are numerous and all fairly obvious if you think about it.

The main consideration IMHO is currency. You need to fly regularly, especially in the early days. A syndicate is the only way to go.

Borrow the money if you havent got it and go for something nice. Nothing worse than inviting somebody to go flying, walk them past a line of shiny birds and then stop at your tired old wreck.

Look beyond shagged out group A machines. For example...

A quarter share in an immaculate Grob 109b - motorgliding is fun fun fun and cheap - will cost you around £10k. 95kts, 12 litres an hour. 1000 mile range, 1 in 28 glide with the motor off, etc etc.

Hairy