Switzerland to Italy

[edymonster]

Hi,

I am trying to plan a route around europe with my friend, to build hours towards my CPL. Anyway I want to go to both Switzerland and Italy on the trip, however I am aware there is a bunch of mountains between the two. We are both low houred PPL holders with no mountain experience Is there any pass in the Alps that allow VFR pilots through or is it best to avoid going through any possible pass with low experience. I also need to get an European flight guide any ideas how to get one on the cheap? Had a look on ebay but no good. Last of all any suggestions of good places to stay in switzerland, bearing in my mind we are both young and up for lively places. Thanks for any help.

[egld0624]

edymonster,

Glad to see you want to give Switzerland a shot; not sure what a/c you'll be using but I'd want to be in an Archer or greater and preferably with a turbo to get the most out of flying the VFR routes in CHF. The Alpine VFR routes are given numeric id's. They are graded in terms of difficulty due to current weather conditions - this info can be found free of charge using the touch-screen Skyguide pc terminals at just about 98% of Switzerland a/ds. You'll wonder why you ever bothered to fly in the likes of UK once you've experienced the general facilities on offer there. UK GA has a lot to learn in my humble opinion. Skyguide produce the VFR/IFR Manuals & AIPs. http://www.skyguide.ch/en/AIMServices/Shop/

Weather: Live spot mountain wind speeds can also be found using the Skyguide terminal & all the Met print offs you will need. Secondly, Flight Plan all your routes in the Alps; just let everybody know where you'll be and check the weather en route as well as your alternates. (Sounds obvious I know but what may seem average weather for flatland flying can be a different ball game over high terrain). Try to fly as early in the mornings as possible to enjoy a smoother ride, before the sunshine takes its toll and the winds/mountain waves kick in. Read up on mountain flying; great source is the “Flying Mountain Bible” by Sparky Imeson (http://www.mountainflying.com/) also produced a DVD to highlight what the book can’t. There are specific techniques used in the mountains unless you’re just cruising over top above it all – which quite frankly is plain dull versus canyon flying below - but probably safer! [And you may not have the oxygen to do it]. Rough rule of thumb I learnt was just double the speed component of the surface wind vector for the venturi effect; Surface winds greater than 30-35 kts will probably be a no-go unless you know the terrain well and have sufficient ground clearance. (Expect wind speeds of 60-70kts on that previous example). I recently flew a Turbo arrow around Zurich using RWY 28 METAR was 260/25/G40; we rodeo-ed beautifully being chucked around with bums off the seats many times at 4000ft (Zurich elevation 1416ft); estimated wind speeds for the VFR route to Samedan were in the region of 120-140km/h from about 1000-2000ft AGL. (i.e.10,000ft) (I don’t think it exactly reached those figures but the buffeting in the lowlands was sufficient to rule out a safe flight there). VFR in the canyons/mountains: keep the Alt set to QNH even at 10,500ft+ FL’s aren’t much help passing/gauging high terrain. Have a good understanding about crossing ridges in a single/twin and appropriate get out clauses in mind. If you fancy going up with an experienced mountain instructor (i.e flying out commercially to Switzerland and obtaining some tuition for an hour or so before your trip PM me).

Whilst, you’ll probably get the Brit reader suggesting going via Geneva I’d suggest having a look at a couple of routes: via Bern or North-West overhead Interlaken to see the Jungfrau with a possible south- westerly routing towards Geneva or Sion. From Sion you could pop southwards to see the Matterhorn at Zermatt (Heliport) before routing via Brig and Domodossola towards Lago Maggiore; Locarno/Ascona are pretty with Locarno being a much more pleasant choice than Lugarno. [Ascona has a disused a/d]. Or route to the North-East say Zurich or St. Gallen joining up at Bad Ragz (near Liechtenstein) and routing via Chur to Samedan (Europe’s highest standard type aerodrome (Approx 5700ft elevation)) http://www.engadin-airport.ch/ and to see what it’s really like: http://193.135.144.21/; From Samedan you would typically route via the Maloja Pass (very dramatic scenery) to Chiavenna and then southwards down Lago di Como towards Milan. (BTW, you’d be talking to Milan just before the FIR boundary just before Chiavenna/Castasegna). Don’t try and land at Como airport unless you have floats but the combination of mountains with enormous lake is difficult to beat!

You might want to consider a trial flight at Como to combine floats with mountains; http://www.aeroclubcomo.com/.

VFR Route numbers to consider:

51-52-53 [Basel-Grenchen Spiez (N. of Bern) -Sion]
21-42-43-44-45 [Bern-Montreux (East end of lake from Geneva)-Sion-Brig-Domodossola –Lugano…]

81-82-92 [Zurich-Weesen-Bad Ragaz-Chur-Julier Pass-Samedan]
93-Como/Milan [Samedan to Lake Como/Milan].

BTW, March 16th the VFR ICAO map for Switzerland changes (2006 version kicks in).

That’s my 2 cents worth; Some pics as to why it’s so worthwhile! http://www.navex.aero/LSZS-LSZL.htm

All the best whatever route you take – please let us know how you get on.

EG:ok:

[IO540]

Watch the Swiss ICAO map - it contains a seemingly random mixture of feet and metre elevations...

IMV the best way to cross the Alps is to pick a day with little wind, clear weather, and do straight over the top. I've done it a few times - very nice and spectacular views.

[edymonster]

Cheers for the info. Yeah I should of put the aircraft details and i am afriad to sat its a C172. With a cruise prop so that could be a problem?!I really need to look at some charts but just havent had the time to go get them yet and as you say they are changing will have to wait. However i did hear about a pass through lake Geneva was possible with this type of aircraft. The trip will be planned for around june/july so will have to let you know then. But thanks again for your help.

ps dont have an IR so cant go IFR. Doing that next year with my CPL.

[egld0624]

edymonster, I wouldn't rule out the C172; if you're going in Summer the odds are you'll be going during more favourable wx anyway than now. (Snow covered mountains camouflage quite nicely in IMC;) ) Flying around Geneva and to be honest from Zurich to Geneva is pretty straight forward. Running up to Sion (Verbier) from Bern, Grenchen or Geneva are all do-able. The valleys are huge and you'll certainly enjoy the views + get up close to the rock. You might even want to route southwards of LSGG running along the valley with the B41 road towards Sallanches Mt-Blanc (LFHZ) and the white mountain itself.

All the best,

EG:ok:

[IO540]

A 172 should be able to fly in the canyons; they fly everything else in them. But that needs reasonable local knowledge, at the very least.

I doubt a 172 would be able to go over the top, FL160 or so...

One can do it VFR; below Switzerland the airspace is Class C at FL130 so one should be able to get transit. If one goes from Austria, one can go VFR up to FL195. But not in a 172 :O

[172driver]

A 172 should be able to fly in the canyons; they fly everything else in them. But that needs reasonable local knowledge, at the very least.
I doubt a 172 would be able to go over the top, FL160 or so...
One can do it VFR; below Switzerland the airspace is Class C at FL130 so one should be able to get transit. If one goes from Austria, one can go VFR up to FL195. But not in a 172 :O

Depends on the 172.... I once saw one (actually Swiss registered) with a turbine stuck to the front :O

On a more serious note: If you do plan to go through the valleys (or canyons as some would have it), make sure you REALLY know your route. Ideally input the entire route with WPs every few miles into your GPS - it's darn easy to turn into the wrong valley, especially on a hazy summer's day.

Also, if flying in the Alps in summer, plan for 'crack o'dawn' departures. In a 172 you'll need the cooler air and you'll appreciate the smooth ride.

As a matter of fact, getting a 172 with a constant speed prop (I imagine this is what you mean by 'cruise prop' ??) across the Alps in Austria is a non-event regarding a/c performance. You still need to be sharp regarding mountain flying. Beautiful scenery, but perfectly doable in a 172. In Switzerland - and especially in the western parts - the hills are a bit higher, though...:E

[QDMQDMQDM]

Gruyere is a nice grass field. Friendly, spectacular. Saanen is nice too -- more challenging. Crossing the Alps via the Jura then up the Rhone valley and across the Simplon pass to Domodossola is no big deal in good weather. Flying in the morning is advisable in the summer. C172 should have no trouble. Usual caveats apply, of course.

Pay close attention to density altitude in the summer. That's where you're most likely to come a cropper in a 172, rather than smacking into the mountains en route. e.g. Saanen is 3300 feet and the temp gets up to the low 30s. Both Saanen and Gruyere have had density altitude fatalities in the last couple of years.

In many ways, winter is the best time to fly the Alps -- fine, bright, clear, smooth days -- but the weather everywhere else is so claggy.

QDM