Ryanair refuses Minister for Tourism

[aidanf]

Wohoo - this'll cause a few ripples :uhoh:

Minister for Tourism refused admission to Ryanair flight*
06/03/2006 - 9:56:50 AM
Minister for Tourism John O'Donoghue was reportedly refused permission to board a Ryanair flight at Cork Airport yesterday.

Reports this morning said the minister was due to fly to Dublin yesterday morning to record an interview with a television show, but had failed to bring any picture identification with him..

As a result, he was refused admission to the Ryanair flight under the airline's policy of not carrying any passengers who cannot produce a passport, driving licence or national identity card.

This morning's reports said officials at Cork Airport had offered to mediate between the minister and the airline, but Ryanair insisted that it would not be making any exceptions to its policy.

source: http://www.breakingnews.ie/text/story.asp?j=3717975&p=37y799x&n=3718067&x=

[Say again s l o w l y]

I can't see what RYR have done wrong here. He didn't have ID, so wasn't allowed on. This policy is obviously for all, if you start allowing exceptions, then where do you draw the line?

[Reverand Lovejoy]

Didn't even know who John O'Donoghue was until 10 mins ago. Seems like another pax who forgot his passport and was declined travel. I hope this wasn't another RYR bash coz I can't see any issue. A policy needs to be followed, regardless. It isn't just an advisory or a recommendation, it is RYR policy to have a form of Government issued photographic ID (or whatever it is) so if you aint got it then it's a no go.

Just as interesting as the title "Single dad of 2 refused travel for forgetting passport." Will probaly get the same response.

The Reverand:8

[DW11]

If it's good enough for the rest of us, then it good enough for the minister. Bet he won't ever do it again.

[OpenCirrus619]

I have to agree with SAS. I can't help feeling that Ryanair would be getting slated now if they had made an exception for the minister.

On this occasion (unpopular as its going to be) I would have to say I think they did the right thing.

OC619

[bealine]

Normally, I welcome the opportunity for a bit of RYR bashing!!!

However, on this occasion, Ryanair behaved absolutely correctly! Over the years, how many people have RYR and EZY turned away through having no picture ID??? Would making an exception be fair on those people???

My employers, as yet, have no requirement for Photo ID on Domestic services. Personally, I think that is a grave error of judgement and RYR and EZY at least have this policy right!!!

[captjns]

What exactly did Ryanair do that was wrong for following thier policies and procedures regarding having a passport? Surely Mr. O'Donoghue does not think he is above the travelling public? If anything Mr. O'Donoghue, the minister of tourism should have his peepee slapped for not being up to date on airline travel requirements... having a passport. After all, in defence of Ryanair, the subject of passports, its on their web site. It isn't a secret.

[Baron rouge]

and another free publicity for Ryanair:ok:

[angels]

But Baron, unless Ryanair actually contacted the press to point out what they'd done, you can't accuse them (as you seem to be doing) of deliberately courting publicity.

As previous posters have said, the guy didn't bring suitable ID so he was refused onto the plane -- as you would have been and I would have been in the same situation. Good, serves the silly old fool right.

[Idunno]

I think the tone of this thread puts paid to those allegations of unfair Ryan bashing on PPRuNe.

[lomapaseo]

I think the tone of this thread puts paid to those allegations of unfair Ryan bashing on PPRuNe.


are you sure that aren't just plants to keep the name in front of us all

[Kalium Chloride]

Agreed - although would Ryanair have done the same for someone more well-known? And if so, does it not start smacking of jobsworth?

I think there's a danger of losing sight of the reason for photo ID - it's purely to prove you're who you say you are. And that's all. If that's achieved more effectively in other ways then surely photo ID becomes irrelevant and, worse, even gets in the way of common sense.

There's a case for asking Joe Public for photo ID: it's because no-one recognises us. I'm sure the minister isn't widely recognised either. But I think there comes a point where people begin concentrating so much on the rules themselves that they start losing sight of the all-important reason for them.

Remember Douglas Bader? Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men...

[captjns]

are you sure that aren't just plants to keep the name in front of us all

Isn’t this a bit over the top?

[aidanf]

As the thread-starter I would just like to quickly point out that I didn't argue that Ryanair were right or wrong in doing this - just that the action would cause a few ripples ..... which it most certainly will.

Sure Ryanair have a well-known policy and there's a logical argument that it should be applied across the board regardless of passenger

Then you have the other side which KC has pointed out which states that the rules are there for a purpose. If this purpose can be achieved by other means then is there a case for using them? For example Tony Blair, George Bush or the Queen (would a sterling note count as valid photo I.D.?) arriving, however unlikely, at a Ryanair check-in desk without the normally accepted forms of photo-id. How about Mick O'Leary himself?

I'm not taking sides, just pointing out that both have their merits :D

[captjns]

For example Tony Blair, George Bush or the Queen (would a sterling note count as valid photo I.D.?) arriving, however unlikely, at a Ryanair check-in desk without the normally accepted forms of photo-id. How about Mick O'Leary himself?

I'm not taking sides, just pointing out that both have their merits :D

Let me know when Tony, George or HRH pitch up for a 99P seat.:E

[Genghis the Engineer]

Is the Irish economy really in that bad a state that government ministers have to fly Ryanair?

G

[Speed of Sound]

I can't see what RYR have done wrong here. He didn't have ID, so wasn't allowed on. This policy is obviously for all, if you start allowing exceptions, then where do you draw the line?

Yes, but let's not forget that this policy is PRIMARILY a money-making excercise on Ryanair's part.

Let's say 1-2% (for example) of passengers forget to bring some form of photo ID. That is 1-2% of already bought seats freed up to go on sale at last minute top prices. That is a LOT of money with the number of pax Ryanair flys. And that is why I have never heard of ANY exception being made to the rule.

Remember, Ryanair brought this policy in long before there was any requirement to have photo ID between the UK and Ireland, never mind within Ireland itself.

After all, you don't need any ID to catch a bus from Cork to Dublin, whoever you are.

SoS

[MarkD]

Genghis

the alternative to FR is an Aer Arann ATR or the train since EI no longer serve DUB from ORK :(

Does anyone know if RE have a pic ID requirement? I can't remember from the last time I flew with them about four years ago.

[hobie]

I always thought a large part of "personal I.D." is to stop peeps buying low cost tickets and then selling them on at a mark-up .... :confused:

why go with Ryanair? ... well Ryanair are currently moving something like 33,000,000 pas a year ..... very often, if you dont go Ryanair then you simply don't go !!!! .... :cool:

[Halfwayback]

There is no UK Government requirement for pax to carry photographic ID - yet.

As hobie says above - it is only done to combat fraud.

HWB

[MARTHA]

Gee...............................



FR Management sure do have a lot of usernames on pprune !


Do a search on each pro FR username and you'll see

[Say again s l o w l y]

Yeah, righto..........

[TotalBeginner]

I remember many moons ago when I worked on the Ryanair ticket desk at Stansted, Jeremy Beadle was refused travel because he had no photo ID. He kicked up such a stink, I was convinced that it was a wind-up. Then he went and purchased a magazine with his photo in it and tried to pass it off as valid ID. Very funny indeed, made my day!

[Taildragger67]

Personally I agree with KC's view, looking to the purpose of requiring the ID in the first place. Add to that the principle of proportionality in EU law and there's a decent argument that, having been positively identified, he ticks the box.

However ATEOTD, it's more than just an ID requirement - it's a condition in the contract and that's the end of the matter. Applies as much to cabinet ministers as much as the rest of us. Former Aussie PM Bob Hawke got pinged once, a TV station was making a docco of him and he got in his Prime Ministerial car after opening some envelope... film crew started filming and the car drove off... without his seat belt done up.

One question which would be interesting to have answered, is: does MOL (and other senior FR bods) volunteer their photo ID as specified in the conditions of carriage, when they front up to FR check in? Not asking to be flamed, just an honest question.

And I have flown FR and probably will again so I've no vested interest.

(Can't believe the caveats I feel I have to put on these threads, but there ya go... )

ps. it's little different from the chairperson of Qantas narrowly avoiding getting friendly with a rubber glove at LA recently, when she was searched and found to have aircraft plans in her briefcase (as she was on her way home after a visit to Boeing) and the security chappies had a hard time believing a woman ran an airline...

[840]

Does anyone know if RE have a pic ID requirement? I can't remember from the last time I flew with them about four years ago.

Aer Arann e-Tickets say on them that picture ID is required. However, I've never been asked to produce it on an internal Irish flight.

[WHBM]

There are a significant number of European airlines that state somewhere in their T&Cs that photo-id is required but then never check for it on domestic/Schengen routes. If, as once happened to me, I had to make a sudden trip from my office in London to Scotland and wasted some hours going home for my passport only to then never have it checked (nor since then by the airline in question either), you regard the whole process as a farce.

It's just like a carrier stating in the same place minimum check-in for an international flight of 2 hours, so for an 06.45 flight you turn up breathlessly at 04.45 to find the terminal has not even been unlocked yet and none of the pax in the know have arrived.

Unlike the airline insiders writing here, standard pax just do not understand why there are differences in procedures between airlines operating the same route with the same security staff.

Those writing from overseas probably do not realise that in Britain driving licences do not carry photographs so passports are the only accepted documentation for FR even on UK internal flights.

For those who write that if the carrier writes the terms then that is the rule, you are not aware of the Unfair Contract Terms Act, legislation which simplistically provides that any terms in a contract which a court would deem unreasonable can be legally set aside. I do wait for the day when the Ryanair identity requirement is challenged in court under this act, to prove whether it is unreasonable or not. You cannot write whatever T&Cs you like.

[Cyrano]

Those writing from overseas probably do not realise that in Britain driving licences do not carry photographs so passports are the only accepted documentation for FR even on UK internal flights.

...er, so that UK photocard driving licence I presented for ID to Ryanair in both Dublin and Luton last weekend (in accordance with the Ryanair terms and conditions, which allow EEA citizens to use photocard driving licences as ID for UK domestic, Irish domestic and UK<->Ireland flights), and which was accepted without question, was a figment of my imagination? :confused:

[WHBM]

...er, so that UK photocard driving licence I presented ... was a figment of my imagination?
No, it shows you passed you driving test in the last few years. The bulk of licences in use are of the traditional type (recent discussion at car rental desk showed about 80-90% of airline pax still have paper licences).

[Final 3 Greens]

Mine is paper.

[PVGSLF]

No, it shows you passed you driving test in the last few years. The bulk of licences in use are of the traditional type (recent discussion at car rental desk showed about 80-90% of airline pax still have paper licences).

Or you can apply for one and pay, or move house and be issued with one for free... not sure which cheaper ;)

I beleive you still need to produce the paper part of the Photo License to be able to rent a car.

[XSBaggage]

Speed of Sound,

I cant see how this could be a money making exercise? How can you make financial plans for a specific proportion of pax to forget their ID? Surely it is just a case of individuals and their luck / memory / organisational skills / experience / thoroughness?

Having been on the "sharp end" of lo-co photo ID policies, I can assure you that very very few seats indeed are sold last minute, and the airline probably loses additional revenue in terms of food / drink and tax free goods (or even the dreaded FR scratchcards) sold on board that the denied pax do not get a chance to purchase.

Still waiting for some standard Europe-wide agreement on acceptable forms of photo ID though, would make our lives on the ground much easier!

[Irish Steve]

Still waiting for some standard Europe-wide agreement on acceptable forms of photo ID though, would make our lives on the ground much easier!

Indeed. Last November, my daghter had to take a late evening flight to Southampton, drive to Exeter, and then return the next morning to Dublin with her elderly and somewhat frail grandfather, as the only airline we could get him to Ireland on was Flybe, as they will accept a senior citizens photo bus pass as an acceptable ID. He'd decided at almost the last minute that he was well enough to travel to Ireland, so we had to do all manner of things to get him here.

My Father in law is over 80, hasn't travelled outside the UK now for several years, so has not bothered to renew his passport, as he didn't see a need for it, and has stopped driving as his eyesight is failing, so his driving licence is now expired as well.
The only valid photo ID he has is his local authority issued bus pass. Everything else is either out of date, or has no photo.

Forcing a senior citizen to get a passport for a flight that in theory requires no ID as such is a complete pain, and it almost meant that he was unable to attend his grandson's wedding, fortunately, Flybe has a slightly more helpful policy on travel ID's, so we could get him over, but it would have been a lot simpler if he's been able to travel with the rest of the family to Bristol, then to Shannon on Ryanair, but their ID policy meant there was no way to get him on the flight. Our only other alternative would have been a 2 DAY round trip by road, very expensive and stressful, as that would have needed no ID of any form.

OK. FR along with all the other airlines want to prevent ticket swapping, so a photo ID is needed. Realistically, for a flight that doesn't need a passport, like a UK internal, or UK - Ireland, do they have to require a valid passport in a case like this, surely, as long as they have an ID that has name and photo, and it's relatively recent, that should allow them to ensure that the passenger travelling is the passenger who's name is on the load list. After all, if immigration and the rest of the security system will accept a photo bus pass, then surely Ryanair could allow the same flexibility.

There are times when I wonder what would be happening in certain areas if M O Leary was still FR CEO at the age of 75 and was now suffering poor health or mobility. I suspect that some of his policies that are so strident now might be somewhat less abrasive. Perhaps not, when he gets older, he probably won't travel low cost anyway, he certainly won't have to for financial reasons:\

[bealine]

I beleive you still need to produce the paper part of the Photo License to be able to rent a car.

Indeed - only in bluddy Britain could you have a smart photocard licence and be required to carry the bit of paper with you! One is not valid without the other!

British Civil Service - blimps without brains -the lot of 'em!