ATCO training sponsorship

[darkhorse1001]

Does anyone out there have any info/experience on the non NATS courses run by BAE,ASTAC....

Having been turned down by NATS at the first hurdle :mad: i've been looking at the other ATC colleges doted around the country and would be glad for any info. Particularly anything regarding the sponsorship side of the deal, i cant help but compare this route with that of wanabee pilots seeking sponsorship from the airlines.

also any info on how pay at a non NATS establishment is likely to compare, how training is likely fo differ from that at bournemouth, and how likely NATS would be to take on an 'experienced ATCO' trained at another UK institute.

[rodan]

Does anyone out there have any info/experience on the non NATS courses run by BAE,ASTAC....
Sure do.
Having been turned down by NATS at the first hurdle :mad: i've been looking at the other ATC colleges doted around the country and would be glad for any info. Particularly anything regarding the sponsorship side of the deal, i cant help but compare this route with that of wanabee pilots seeking sponsorship from the airlines.
That's simple enough, there is no 'sponsorship side of the deal'. It's a totally different setup to the NATS cadetship. The private colleges are there to supply courses to non-NATS airports like Liverpool, Newcastle, East Midlands and all the rest in the UK, as well as training many foreign students. The students on these courses are either sent and paid for by the airports that they already work for, or they pay for the courses themselves prior to finding a job with an airport. Last time I checked (and it was a while ago), a tower control or approach radar course would set you back the best part of £20k. These are full-time courses that last around 3 months each.
also any info on how pay at a non NATS establishment is likely to compare, how training is likely fo differ from that at bournemouth, and how likely NATS would be to take on an 'experienced ATCO' trained at another UK institute.
Pay is broadly similar at non-NATS airports when compared to NATS units at airports of similar size, although the pension arrangements are more often than not significantly worse. Many non-NATS airfields are much smaller, however. You can expect to earn less at those, and less still at airfields that do not have radar. It's probably worth pointing out that most NATS airports pay much less than the figure often quoted in the recruitment ads, only those at Swanwick, LTCC and Heathrow earn that much.

As regards the training, it is broadly similar to the NATS college. However, at the private colleges the course sizes are much smaller than at Bournemouth, and the instructors get to know the students and their strengths and weaknesses much better. This is reflected in a (generally) higher pass rate at the private colleges, although the courses are set up and examined to the same CAA-imposed standards as the NATS college.

As for your last question about NATS taking experienced ATCOs from other airports, they have recently introduced a recruitment campaign with that specific objective. I haven't heard much about the recruitment process for experienced ATCO's, but I would imagine that it is more predisposed to those from the larger non-NATS airports.
Hope that helps!

[darkhorse1001]

cheers rodan, the more i look into it the more it seems i'm just gonna have to bide my time and wait those 12 long months till my next opportunity with NATS.:bored:

[Dizzee Rascal]

I've done a couple of courses at Dundridge over the past 2 years. Thoroughly recommend them 100%!

I was sponsored by my airport, although my fellow course mate paid for the aerodrome course herself, she came from a zero aviation background and got offered a job during the last week of the course at the biggest non NATS airport in the UK (lucky girl!):ok:

Contact my via PM if you want!

DR

[niknak]

You could wait for a year and get rejected again, or you could get your arse into gear and show some initiative.

The vast majority of non NATS airports train their own ATCOs from staff within, you start as an ATCA then progress onward if that's what you want to do and if you are good enough.
You've managed to apply to NATS, so with a little more effort I would imagine that it isn't beyond you to contact the ATSM of every non NATS regional airport in the country with your very best CV.

Alternatively, if you are really convinced you are capable of passing all the exams, you could sponsor yourself by borrowing the money.
The aerodrome/approach procedural and approach radar courses will cost you in the region of £50k, (not the £20K previously advised) but you could almost certainly reduce that sum if you did the course as a "package" at any of the independant colleges.

It really depends on whether you are serious about a career in ATC.

[Number2]

Niknak
A little harsh on the lad I feel. Just because he doesn't choose to get himself in debt for over £50k, doesn't necessarily mean he's lacking in motivation!
Is it really a pre-requisite to get a procedural licence now?

[rodan]

The aerodrome/approach procedural and approach radar courses will cost you in the region of £50k, (not the £20K previously advised)

The £20k figure I mentioned wasn't for all 3 ratings, but for either an APR or ADC ticket, either of which should be enough to secure a job on their own.

[qcode]

Look at the ASTAC website and contact them. I think the Aerodrome course is about 12K and Radar about 15K. You do not need a APP rating at most units nowadays. Self funding is quite risky as you may not pass but the ultimate test is validation at a unit. I do not think that 27K plus living expenses for 6 months is a big sacrifice, because at the end you will be earning twice the amount. Just think about all the commercial pilots who self funded and paid in the region of 40K to get the dream job. Another analogy is that most working people will buy a car for 10K yet earn 20K, they are quite happy to do that. An ATC Licence will not depreciate in value like a car. Other people take a mortgage for 4 times what they earn. My opinion is that you should think about what it is worth to you to spend a small amount of money to do your dream job. You will easily get a job but it might be worth contacting all the UK ATC Managers to check when vacancies may occur so that your timescale meets them. I did hear of someone who was offerred a position if they passed the APR only no TWR Rating only radar, so you could just do the radar to get a job. Good luck.

[darkhorse1001]

cheers to all who have replied.

Niknak, given its been all of four days since I found I was rejected I feel my arse is already in top gear considering i've not just accepted defeat and have been looking around into other options, trying to find out from NATS where i went wrong, looking into the costs of other courses, searching for similar jobs in the field, and who is likely to be employing at the mo. Just because i say i'm just gonna have to bide my time till i get another chance with NATS doesn't mean im gonna waste it doing F:mad: All.

Given i'm a graduate with 20k of debt already, no assests to secure a further 20k loan on let alone 50K (and a credit rating unworthy if a un unsecured loan of that magnitude) there is no way for me to fund the courses at another college without the aid of sponsorship. (Thats not me having a moan, simply telling you where I'm at. There are plenty of other threads talking money, debt, students vs school leavers new pay deal etc....) If I can't find sponsorship then i would be prepared to take a career development loan, but it will probably take me 12 months to get my credit rating to a position where i'll be granted that amount of money, by which time i'll be able to re-apply to NATS.

qcode, i beat you to it, waiting for them to get back to me now... but cheers for the info.

Also, If i cant find sponsorship i will be applying for as many ATCA/ATSA posts as i can find. The problem with that 'foot on the first rung' approach is that i would imagine the turn over of ATCO posts at independent airports is pretty slow(please correct me if i'm wrong). Am I not likely to end up stuck in the role of ATSA for years before getting the chance to progress?

If anyone has any info on how long i would probably be bonded to an airport if i did manage to find sponsorship it would be very useful.

Once again cheers for all the info, please keep it coming.

[vintage ATCO]

If anyone has any info on how long i would probably be bonded to an airport if i did manage to find sponsorship it would be very useful.

When I was a manager at a non-NATS unit the bonding was for two years.

[Chilli Monster]

If anyone has any info on how long i would probably be bonded to an airport if i did manage to find sponsorship it would be very useful.

Three years is now the norm, not two.

If you can't afford to self fund and you're really determined then either wait the 12 months until you can re-apply, or apply for an ATSA post at one of the non-NATS regionals. You'll get your foot in the door and, if you show promise they'll sponsor you. Don't worry about waiting for "Dead Mans Shoes". There are people out there coming up for retirement, sometimes without the people behind to fill the posts.

If you want it bad enough you'll find a way, and it will happen.

[Regular Cappuccino]

Unless I've misunderstood their literature, ASTAC College (Rudloe Manor, but shortly moving to Gloucestershire) do actually run a 'cadet scheme' of sorts. You'd have to check the details with the college, but I suspect, that like airport sponsored training of ATCAs, it will only be available to their employees (Simulator blip drivers).
An ATCA / ATSA post is a good 'foot in the door' strategy and provides excellent experience for later applications, but subsequent ATCO training is by no means a certainty, so it's not necessarily a very quick or reliable way to obtain a licence.
HOWEVER - There is a growing shortage of ATCOs, not only in the UK, but throughout Europe, and sooner or later, the traditional methods of attracting qualified, experienced ATCOs from other units, will no longer be a reliable way of ensuring that staffing requirements are met. Before long I suspect, more units than at present will be looking at ways of implementing some sort of cadet scheme to address the shortfall.
In any event, a job within ATC, whether it be ATCA or blip driver, will pay the rent, enable you to reduce your debts and at the same time provide useful background knowledge while you investigate other opportunities.
Good Luck
RC

[darkhorse1001]

cheers all, all this info is proving invaluable. I've spent the best part of a day getting the addresses for all the independent airports in the UK (i think) and will be sending off a CV to all of them, including the really remote ones. I'll also be sending off applications to NATS and the other colleges. if all this fails i'm gonna have to emigrate.

[darkhorse1001]

or join the RAF. :uhoh: