Merged: New CASA Charges For Pilots

[kwitchabitchin]

Hi All,

Just booked my next flight medical & was told by the staff that CASA medical has added a further $130 "processing fee" on top of the $130 that I have to pay the DAME to actually do it!! :mad:

How the hell do these things slip past us un-noticed? Or have I had my head in the clouds too much lately???:ooh:

Anyone else had this???

KB

[dodgybrothers]

geez when is this going to stop

[Aerodynamisist]

Gee they snuck that one in, It's a real kick in the pants for pilots.
I assume that this will affect air traffic controllers as well.

Where are you on this one AOPA - Civil Air ?
where are you Dick and Boyd QUI PROCURANTUR PROCURANDI - One must represent those one claims to represent Isn't that your motto ?

[Biggles_in_Oz]

Gee they snuck that one in, It's a real kick in the pants for pilots.
I assume that this will affect air traffic controllers as well.

Where are you on this one AOPA - Civil Air ?
where are you Dick and Boyd QUI PROCURANTUR PROCURANDI - One must represent those one claims to represent Isn't that your motto ?


Quite a few months ago they asked for comments.
(whaddya mean you have better things to do than to monitor the CASA/Dotars/Airservices websites every hour to see what affects you... its' up to you to keep up to date with everything they decree. :*)

See thread http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=194738 for the start of it all.

Then on 16-Dec-05 they announced the new fees, effective 1-Jan-06.
see thread http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=202796

The new fees are at http://www.casa.gov.au/corporat/fees/fees.htm
Not much is 'free' anymore and there's more to come.

Not being a member, I haven't seen much that AOPA has/is doing about these CASA fees.
there ya go Bob., another opportunity to bash AOPA :E

[rmcdonal]

Its all part of that new cost recovery thingy.
The CASA website has a whole page on the new costs.
I wonder what CASA actualy has to do to send you a medical? If the doc passes you don't they just type it up and send it??
Easyest $130 ever.:(

[scrambler]

Do they type it up? Thought that was automated too.

[Bob Murphie]

Hey Biggles;

I don't bash AOPA, I bash the ruling and illegal, elite "executive" who have marginalised the rest of the board and making policy on the run. This is the second recent crew to do this and configured once again around an individual who couldn't give a rat's about the members on or off the board.

They ARE in fact doing something about the AVMED on their own site that will enthrall the rank and file, but I fear it will come down to doing another "deal" and like the ASIC, they would be better doing nothing.

I sincerely wish them well in their endeavours however.

Are you or I due to shout each other a beer or something?

[CUB]

Completed a Class 1 Aviation Medical yesterday and was told by the doctor that CASA are now charging a $130- processing fee to be paid on top off the normal medical expense. He said that Casa had told doctors that all license holders had been advised of this new cost however it was the first I had heard of it. Anyone heard or know anything about this ?

[the wizard of auz]

I haven't been informed of it either. Friggen great. $120 for the medical and $130 for CASA. $250 for a medical every twelve months. friggen Pathetic.
Add that to the stupid and pointless ASIC card and the pathetic photo licence and all the security checks. A pilot in GA will have to earn twice the going hourly rate just to stay in the job.Add the fuel price rise, the overcharging pricks that own the airport charges, the tower cost, the theiving maintanance and parts shops and then pass it all onto the customer and they will be paying $600 for an hours joyflight in a 172. Yeah, thats going to become a sustainable industry for all. there are costs I haven't mentioned but will surely add to the expense. watch the pilots get screwed on wages further as people try to cut costs to stay in business.
looks like CASA may just get thier wish and get rid of GA in the near future. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[EngineOut]

I recall from last year that CASA was implementing an online thingy for the DAMEs, so that it was all input into the CASA system while you were sitting there. So where is the admin cost then?

Even if it had to be put in manually, how could it cost them $130 for some one to enter data??? May take 15 mins at most for a clerk to do it.

:eek: :mad:

[Kiaruku Kid]

:eek: Do the math - $21 for an ASO 1 to enter the data, $38 for his/her supervisor to ensure the data is corrected, $45 for the computer technician to ensure the data is crossmatched and stored, $ 20 for senior management and $6 for the 'service' that CASA are so diligently providing.:yuk:

[sage]

Anyone heard or know anything about this ?

Yes. It was hidden in amongst the list of fees and charges in a CASA mailout I received a couple of months ago. Supposing YOU received it (?), unless you read it in toto, you would've easily missed the stealthily introduced NEW fee. I was, and am, appalled.

As with qualification notations to my license, CASA require the record, not me. CASA should be bear responsiblity for the associated cost.

Like much of the "user pays" jargonistic spin, it's not actually the real user who is paying. This new fee shares in common with their many others that it is neither just nor reasonable. It just is, because some greasy pole climbing CASA bureacrat saw promotion in the idea in age where he can not only get away with it, but which promotes and rewards such perfidy.

[OPT/MAX]

How are they retrieving the funds? Through the doctor at the medical stage or billing you later? If it's the latter, maybe we should all lose the bill. Just another kick in the guts :ouch: Will it ever end??

[5 Left & Right]

What a bloody farce, go here to make a complaint.

http://www.casa.gov.au/corporat/complaints.htm

maybe if they get enough complaints they might sit up & listen......

Then again.:ugh:

[Time Bomb Ted]

As with qualification notations to my license, CASA require the record, not me. CASA should be bear responsiblity for the associated cost.

sage If you have a drivers licence you are required to pay for it aren't you? Same with if you want to upgrade it to a truck licence. So if YOU are going to make money from your licence... then why shouldn't CASA (read the Government) take a little slice of what you are going to make? See it is only another hidden Lil' Johnny tax really.

I reckon a lot of people will end up flying without a medical or the endorsement or the change to the AOC. Next thing they will require another $75 to "Process" our flight reviews.

Cranky TBT

[victor two]

Lets not forget about all the thousands of private pilots out there who are not making money out of their flying, just had to pay for an ASIC because their aircraft hire operator is based on a secure airport and are now due for a $130 medical fee on top of the cost of the medical for no increase in services or tangible benefit.

Flying is expensive now, it's exactly this sort of thing that will make a lot of pilots just say "enough, no more" and just give up the pleasure of flying for something much cheaper.

I never really agreed with comments that I have heard before that CASA is actually trying to destroy GA, or at least make it so hard to comply and pay to do that people will give it away, but after this I think there is some truth to the statement.

[Capt EFIS]

I must say that $130.00 seems a bit expensive to process a Medical which should only take less than an hour... but then again I have known CASA to take 6 weeks to get the medical certificate back to me.

CUB,

Did you have to pay the additional fee at the doctors?

[Biggles_in_Oz]

What a bloody farce, go here to make a complaint.
http://www.casa.gov.au/corporat/complaints.htm
maybe if they get enough complaints they might sit up & listen......
Then again.:ugh:
These new CASA fees are part of the governments' cost recovery process.
http://www.casa.gov.au/corporat/fees/index.htm

Minister Truss is the one who should get the complaints.

[victor two]

Please be advised that CASA is also now charging $150.00 to process every complaint registered with them. This payment is payable at the time you lodge your complaint but complaints can take up to a year to be acknowledged.

If you don't like it and want to save money you can either

A) - Stop complaining

or

B) - Take their preferred choice and cease all flying activity.

[Chilli Tarts]

I just completed my annual medical (yesterday – 4th) with a Dr on the Gold Coast. Made the booking on the 4th (for the 5th) with no initial mention of this new CASA fee (this particular DAME’s practice had been closed over the Xmas period). After making the booking I received a phone call from the receptionist about two hours later from the initial contact just to give my self a heads up on the new CASA fee (as they had JUST been given the information).

While talking to the DAME during the medical it was made quiet clear that he was furious with CASA's latest stunt. DAME’s were given no "real" warning of the approaching fee, and were also politely informed by CASA that they were the ones required to tell pilots renewing their medical of this new fee? Figure that one out, no letter, and no email, nothing at all from CASA............ it’s now the DAMEs job to be the messenger for CASA’s new fees??????? Some one is lacking a serious spine!

Medical = $180 and CASA admin fee = $130, total days exercise priceless!

[Kransky]

There is a solution. This is a professional pilots bulletin board. Write a new condition into your EBA or award for your employer to reimburse the cost of maintaining a Class 1 medical.

You will probably see a clause in another part of your agreement like this...
A pilot must not fly an aircraft other than in the course of his or her employment unless the employer consents in writing.

In other words, they own your entire professional output. You cannot rent a Cessna 172 to take your mum for a flight on her birthday. Without a written approval from your employer, you are stealing something they paid for - your flight hours limited by law (CAO 48).

FWIW, I think that employers should reimburse or provide for any particular tools, renewals, ratings, charts, etc that they require you to have.

Companies used to reimburse medicals. Time they did so again.

[puff]

Kransky, good idea in theory but with pilots now paying for their own endorsements on the a/c type, trying to get paid medicals is a bit of a dream.

[Pseudonymn]

Is it going to be Tax Deductable?

[Dr Reedalldabooks]

It is absolutely disgusting. Good if you are a pilot not though...only cause it is going to further discourage younger people to be pilots with all the fees and charges, let alone all the bullsh*t and the amount it costs anyhow with now return. So well done CASA you have further aided (again (for no real reason (it worked for many years before didn't it? Australia is not in recession??))) to the pilot problem that will happen in Australia. Well Done. :ok: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[the wizard of auz]

so what do we get back for all the GST and fuel excise and other visible taxes we pay?.
Friggen monopoly like ASL backed with the law. Do it and pay it our way or f**k off. yeah, real fair system we live with.
I thought these Idiots were elected by the people to represent the people........ certainly not my idea of fair at all. and after they all pay themselfs a **** load more than we could earn there is still a huge surplus at the end of the year. go figure.

[Biggles_in_Oz]

Well, actually the fuel excise is supposed to decrease.


gradually.


eventually.

...includes a phased reduction in aviation fuel excise from 2008 and no extra revenue from taxpayers to top up CASA’s funding. The fuel excise rate will be cut by a total of eight per cent.


where is that flying pig icon ?

[O_Wright]

Up here in Singapore a couple of days ago I did my medical renewal. The doctor and his staff were all very embarressed to inform me of the $130 "processing fee". The doctor (the well known Dr. M) said he didn't know anything of it until late December and upon contacting his colleagues in Aust. was told they were in the same position. All were as equally outraged as me.

I thought that past goverments had done enough to stuff up aviation in Aust. but now this bunch of fools are really setting the pace.

User pays is one thing but I would certainly like to see a little more justification for what they charge and to apply the charge so sneakily tells me they knew it wouldn't exactly be well recieved.

Happy landings.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Ive heard the extra money is to cover the examination required for rectal damage attained during workplace conditions and pay negotiations.

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[rmcdonal]

:{ How are they retrieving the funds? Through the doctor at the medical stage or billing you later? If it's the latter, maybe we should all lose the bill. Just another kick in the guts :ouch: Will it ever end??
I don’t think that would work, CASA would probly just lose the Medical… but then again knowing CASA they would lose the medical anyway and then charge you to get another one for them. Or more realistically they would lose the medical and not tell you they’d lost it until you call them up a month later to question where it is. (Does this sound familiar???) :yuk:
:mad:

[kookabat]

Flying is expensive now, it's exactly this sort of thing that will make a lot of pilots just say "enough, no more" and just give up the pleasure of flying for something much cheaper.

RAAus here I come!:8

[tealady]

If you pay for your Class 1 medical, then you can claim it as a tax deduction. If you are employed full time by a company and that company owns all of your flying hours, then the company must pay for it - just like if your are employed to use your MECIR or an Instructor Rating and you fly using those qualifications only for your employer then they are legally obliged to pay for them. However, if your are employed full time as a Grade 3 Instructor with a MECIR but the company does not require you to use those qualifications, then they do not have to pay for renewals. However, if your company wants you to use those qualification or they want you to upgrade those qualifications, then they must pay for them (and also give you the relevant increase in pay rates). If you have qualifications on employment that are not initially used, then some employers will discount aircraft and charge solo rates for aircraft.

[dodgybrothers]

yep i can just see my company running with cheque book in hand ready and willing to pay. Jeez I'm becoming cynical.

[LoneyPie]

"From 1 January 2006 CASA is charging for a wide range of regulatory services as the first step in a move to full cost recovery.

Fees apply to more than 180 regulatory services including licences and ratings, examinations, medicals, aircraft registration, certificates, permits, exemptions, approvals and authorities...."

....http://casa.gov.au/corporat/fees/index.htm (http://casa.gov.au/corporat/fees/index.htm)

It never seizes to sh!t me how somebody from some government organisation think that you owe them your dollars.

[bushy]

And brought in just before the holidays too. Was this timing planned? They are on leave when the complaints come in.

Yea, verily, we do live in the land of the underarm bowlers.

[VintageRed]

I did my medical in mid/late November. I waited the usual time to receive the new piece of paper in the mail but it didn't come. Being considerate i waited until after the xmas period to call about my wayward medical only to be advised that i would have to pay $65 for a reissue. Needless to say i was absolutely blown away. I asked to speak to the manager about and proceeded to tell him what i thought of his bloody fee and that i had to pay for his department's stuff up in not sending one out. Obviously they claim they sent one out but when i asked what date it was mailed to me i was advised, and i quote "it would have been sent the day after it was issued". Would have been sent!!!???? No bloody idea. I advised him that i refused to pay the fee and i am waiting to see what happens next.

What a stupid industry i work in, i could earn more and be better respected if i was in a beer drinkers syncronised swimming team at the commonwealth games!!!

[McGowan]

The way I understand it, CASA is now going to be charging for almost everything they do. Cost recovery. The thing that gets me is the charge rate is $130.00 an hour.
To me, that means it will take some one in CB an hour to assess and then process my medical and get it to me.
Questions. How many licenced pilots in Aus? Must be in the thousands. How many people working in the AVMED area on the issue of medical certificates? Will there be enough time to do every one?
Bet they don't spend an hour on each!!!!!

[hikouki]

Welcome to the end of GA... Thanks to the new user pays system

The new CASA Fees are total BULLS*!T...
$130 for a medical, plus Doctor fee...
$130 to get a endoresment put on your licence...
$130/hour for someone to enter a couple of details onto an existing licence... when will it end?
And the list goes on, take the time to check out how much you are now going to pay:

http://www.casa.gov.au/corporat/fees/fees.htm

[QFinsider]

Yesss....

So why do we all pay so much tax?
I want the percentage back that goes to keeping these leeches on the purse..If they want to cost recover then let them give me my tax money back and i will decide when I "use" or pay...Another way of increasing the bureaucratic tax take..thats all .:E

[Chimbu chuckles]

As I stated on another thread...$11.5 billion surplus and yet the Govt still follows the user pays mantra.

Isn't that what income tax and GST is for...paying our employees (the Govt) to supply services via the Public Services (surely the ultimate oxymoron).

User pays and privatisation is a huge con and an abrogation of the primary purpose of Govt...to provide the framework for private enterprise to flourish.

But the bureacratic system is designed to protect itself. Democracy has become a bit of a con itself.

[Ultralights]

RAAus here I come!:8

It seams every week CASA Give me another reason to abandon my GA Licence altogether, i have the same mindset as Kookabat, but i have been Flying RAA aircraft now for 6 yrs, and have now tripled my RAA Hrs compared to my VH time.

When my Medical is due to expire in 3 months. it will be the end of a personal era.

As a customer of CASA what service am i getting for my now expesive pastime??? for $130 i have a full Cross country PAX endorsed RAA licence for 12 months, and i can register my aircraft for similar!

how much would that cost me buying from CASA???

as the now obviose trend continues, CASA's Full cost recovery will end up with Airlines only funding CASA! with the Private Pilot being a distant memory of days gone by.

[Like This - Do That]

Is this deliberate? The whole antipathy towards GA business, I mean? If enough people give up flying in disgust, the developers and fund managers who now own the GAAP airports (and who fund the major political parties so generously) can just shut those airports down and build McMansions, mega malls, and industrial parks.

Think of the savings for CASA, too! No more GA. The airlines will be stoked - every former aircraft owner who can no longer fly his 182 or Bonanza to Queensland will have to slum it with the riff raff in J* and Virgin - SHOW ME THE MONEY PLEASE!

Pollies will love it .... they can take credit for ridding the skies of those horrible unsafe little Cessna Cherokees which are always plummetting in loop the loop death spirals onto child care centres.

The upcoming LAME shortage won't matter.... there won't be an industry anyway!!!!! Yeehaa! We're all WINNERS!

And what of remote rural communities? Loss of a vital air service? Who cares!!?!! Put on a bus once a month ... Bushy & his mates can take that to the big smoke for their oncologist appointment or whatever - they don't REALLY need to fly, do they?

We'll all be winners.

[the wizard of auz]

Hey Chuckles, wasn't that what I just said with differant words?

[2B1ASK1]

Private pilots slam CASA fee to log medical
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
January 13, 2006
PRIVATE aircraft owners and pilots have attacked a move by the aviation regulator to charge $130 to log medical information as an attempt to "bleed dollars from a captive market".

Claiming general aviation is suffering from "regulatory overload", the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association has written to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority chief Bruce Byron and Transport Minister Warren Truss calling for the agency's cost recovery plans to be put on hold and for the medical fee to be removed.

AOPA vice-president Andrew Kerans said the lobby group was fighting the medical issue as the most obvious of several problems with CASA's proposals.

"You go to a doctor to get a medical and you have to pay for that and, of course, it's not on Medicare because it's seen as a private thing," Mr Kerans said.

"But now what you have to do is also pay CASA to accept that medical. In other words, the doctor emails the medical into CASA and they charge us $130 just to put it on their system."

Mr Kerans said AOPA understood the concept of cost recovery but believed the industry should not be held captive to a regulator that could set its own fees.

He said instructors taking biannual flight reviews were allowed to simply stamp pilots' log books and designated aviation medical examiners should be trusted to do the same.

He said CASA should only be involved where there was a medical problems. "And that's the big message: we want CASA to start trusting the industry and to stop setting up quasi-business monopolies," he said.

"Another interesting issue is with exams ... they've set up a monopoly so now you have to pay CASA to mark the exam and you have to pay ASL (Aviation Services Limited, the contractor) to conduct the exam.

"AOPA has offered to run the exams, where we would do it for free for members, but they don't want to do that because they've set up a monopoly with ASL."

CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said the $130 represented an average cost that was considered fairer than charging on an hourly basis.

"While it is true most medicals are a routine exercise, some take days, and sometimes weeks, to resolve.

"If we had hourly fees, some people would pay thousands."

But Mr Kerans said CASA needed to withdraw the cost recovery fees until it sat down and determined what it should be doing, what could be outsourced and where industry could self-regulate.

"We actually don't understand why CASA pays as much attention as it does to Vee-Dubs with wings and the very small amount of attention they seem to pay to airlines and the fare-paying passenger," he said.

Mr Truss said he believed needed changes were happening at CASA. "Bruce (Byron) is seeking to drive those and I'm encouraging him to get on with the job."