R/c flying for Christmas!

[Confabulous]

I've just got myself an R/C microlight (trike & sail), you know, the ones you control with assym thrust. It's cheap and cheerful, and I'll be flying it tomorrow (can't wait another 2 days!) Oh, and I've never flown R/C before, so it will probably end up as a pile of junk in a field :E

Things is, some people see it as a cop-out to fly r/c models when you fly real GA aircraft as well - almost like building model bridges as a hobby when you're a bridge designer - am I gettin unnessecarily worried about this? A good friend of mine said never to fly r/c models, and he's an ATPL.

Thoughts? Maybe this should be in Agony Aunts :ooh: :}

Con

PS: Does anybody else fly R/c? Any tips on not hitting yourself?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

A top instructor I know - aeros, tailwheel, warbirds - he'd done the lot, was watching a PPL flying a R/C model. PPL hands over the transmitter for our ace to have a go - but he completely loses it. With aircraft in the down vertical, way past Vne, about 10 feet off the ground, ace tosses transmitter back to PPL with a "you have control"!

SSD

[Stafford]

Oh come off it, ATPL or no, I bet he / she watches r/c stuff with the same childish awe as the rest of us ?? :E

Best remark ever heard on one documentary on Jet powered models, or something like it .......

Interviewer - How much is one of those jets ?

Aeromodeller - (concentrating hard on fast mover model) - That one about 10K

Interviewer - Must be quite demanding to fly

Aeromodeller - Son, I couldn't swipe my amex card between my bum cheeks right now

[Confabulous]

What makes me wonder is why, if you have a fast, expensive model, you don't put a mini camera and transmitter in the nose to get a genuine pilot's eye view? That seems like the end of all your problems to me!

[david viewing]

OK, here's some actual advice.

1) Only attempt your first flight if the wind is very light, ie not enough to turn an anemometer. Anything more and you'll lose the model in a tree or in vegetation. If it gets too far away you won't see which way its going and then the only way out is stop the motors and chase it!

2) These models have a strong dutch roll tendency and will go out of control easily. Avoid this by only making the lightest control inputs. See 'wind' above!

3) Be sure to follow any trimming or rigging instructions to the letter.

4) See 'tree' above. These little models will survive most forms of crash, but not being poked out of a tree. If you don't have a large open area, drive to one!

Hope that helps!

Ref: models being a substitue for the real thing, I have to say they generate far more adreneline than anything I've yet experienced in full size. I have a 1/5th scale biplane (DH60) that has scared me rigid on almost every one of it's 200 or so flights with adverse aileron yaw, weathercocking flat turns on takeoff, numerous EFATOs due to oiling of the plug, low/slow on the approach, hot/high on the approach with a stopped prop, dogs on the runway, etc., etc. Beats any simulator hands down for real terror.

[LondonJ]

I enjoyed flying radio control models for a few years from the age of 13 (when the big stuff was off limits) and I'll say that it was far harder to fly a radio control plane solo than it was to get my PPL.

It is mainly to do with the aspect that you are flying from, having to judge speeds, turns and the frequent deadstick situations. If you try driving a radio control car towards you you'll get a feel for why it takes a long time to learn to fly one of these things.

The model microlights should be ok, just go to a very large open space and don't take any shortcuts in preperation. I would however heavily discourage anyone from trying to fly a large petrol engined model by themselves for the first time.

And in response to the cop-out thing, I've given up RC now, mainly because I couldn't stand to watch another one of my precious planes with £100's of equipment and 6+ months of my time building it going into the ground nose first. I guarantee that with those stakes the adrenaline pumping around is much higher than in a GA aircraft.

edit: re the mini camera, it really is a weight and cost issue, in order to get a camera small enough with transmitter it would cost £200 at a guess. With all the stuff that tends to go wrong with these planes it probably isn't worth the risk.

[Confabulous]

The model microlights should be ok, just go to a very large open space and don't take any shortcuts in preperation

At the risk of sounding slightly stupid, what preparation? I mean, besides preflighting the thing, checking to battery and range, wind, checking the area is fairly clear and I'm wearing my brown trousers, what else is there?

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just curious - if there's a checklist I'd prefer to follow it - the instructions for flying it were on a single page

[david viewing]

It's about trimming. Mostly, these models will fly straight out of the box, but if any trimming is needed then be sure to get it right before applying power. What you need is for the model to make lazy upward orbits in still air so that any control input you give it can be thought through in advance. Instinctive re-actions are a long time coming, if ever!

[LondonJ]

don't take any shortcuts in preperation

Just make sure you don't miss things out on the instruction list e.g. range testing the transmitter before you fly it. They are very tempting to miss as you expect it to work as it is brand new.

Good Luck!

[Piltdown Man]

Don't confuse R/C with actually sitting in the real thing. R/C as far as I am concerned is an black art that I have not yet mastered - flying the real thing though is pretty easy. And the poeple who have shown the most initial aptitude in flying aircraft during trial lessons (Gliding and powered) have all been R/C pilots. And who does R/C flying? Anybody who wants fun and that includes military, civil pilots, recreational pilots and (the largest majority) people who have never flown an aeroplane at all.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Lots of good advice above. But just try to convince an R/C flyer who doesn't also fly 'full size' that turning their model into or out of wind has absolutely zero effect on the airspeed.

There's something about being a ground-bound pilot that makes it impossible for many of them to believe it.

SSD

[Ian_Wannabe]

Ahh R/C Flying.... I too did this from the age of 13 when I got fustrated about not being able to fly for real and it was great fun! In the end I quit because I turned into a lazy student who didnt wanna get out of bed on a sat morning to go and stand in the cold but in retrospect I wish I had carried on!

Tip for not crashing.... go down to your local R/C club, they'll probably be equipped with their very own "training" high winger which they'll let you have a go at. This will be handy for you because they'll probably have a "buddy box" which is basically a wire between two controllers and when/if it looks like alls going tits up they take control!

'n if you can afford to fly the real thing, the £40 yearly membership fee shouldnt worry you too much!

I'd recommend a club.... its great fun...

[The Right Stuff]

I have a PPL and I fly r/c models too. I obtained my PPL in April this year and have flown models since the age of five or six, too early to remember really (I’m now 26). I intend to go on and obtain my CPL/IR.

My model ’hanger’ includes everything from basic trainers and vintage types, to full house aerobatic hot ships. One big difference though is that my models are nearly all tail draggers with the swing of a Spitfire on take off, whereas I mostly fly tricycle gear full size aeroplanes. I’ve got a few hours on a Cessna 140 tail dragger, and seemed to get the hang of it fairly quickly, but haven’t tried strong crosswinds with it yet.

I think the modelling has helped immeasurably with handling the full size aeroplane, since my models fly in exactly the same way, especially the larger, faster, heavier ones. The vintage models just float about effortlessly and are very relaxing to fly on a calm summer evening.

As david viewing said, I think the frequent dead stick approaches, EFATOs, hot/high or low/slow approaches all teach the pilot the first rule of flying; fly the aeroplane.

Its cheaper than full size, at least until you crash it, and if I’ve flown the models I feel more current than going weeks without flying the full size. It generally involves more adrenaline too, and is free from the regulatory concerns of the full size.

I’d recommend it to anyone, and the best place to start is your local club. The only problem is finding time for both; today the full size won because it has a heater!

[Cusco]

Like previously said the varable power to steer can be a bit twitchy, so tiny control inputs needed.

Don't let it get too far away as you can quickly forget whether a/c is coming towards to or going away.

When I learnt 4 channel R/c in the 70s the club instructor suggested I put a strip of day-glo tape along leading edges to help with this.
(you may not be able to do this for weight reasons.)

Other tip: when a/c is coming towards you and a wing drops, move 'stick' towards that wing: saves having to work out your lefts and rights.

Sadly the advent of CB radio and 2 kids plus a housing estate on Perton airfield in W Mids put paid to my R/c flying, but I still watch in awe the local R/c club flyers who lease a tarmac 'pad' and fly at our airstrip.

Good luck

Cusco

[RatherBeFlying]

If r/c are as suicidal as the postings and the sad video of the B-52 model suggest, why don't modellers install a chute as do many of the microlights?

[LondonJ]

Because by the time you realise what's going on, the model tends to be very well settled in the ground. Certain models touch 50+ mph, in a vertical dive from 200ft, that gives you virtually no time to react.

[Them thar hills]

Confab

A Golden rule or two !

Don't let the model get downwind of you.

Don't make large control inputs, and no big bank angles.

Find yourself someone who knows his r/c flying, and have him supervise your first attempts, including trimming.

(the first 40 years are the hardest )

Happy flying
TTH

[Hilico]

Or do what I did - a bottom-of-the-range electric indoor RC heli. No worry about getting downwind or out of sight in your own front room. You can start by getting it light on the skids (NB smooth surface required) and making it skate about. Just cultivate the left-hand thumb twitch down to cut the power and stop it dead. Then just make bigger and bigger hops.

At only 120 quid - v. cheap by the standards of these things - you don't even need to worry about flying it backwards into the Christmas tree. Just switch the power off instantly, pick it up off the floor, bend the metal bits back straight and off you go again!

[BRL]

Hmmmm, RC models, I think by law you can only fly in a designated area as stated by the local council. You must be a member of a club, for insurance reasons I believe. Of course it will have wings so the CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP658.PDF) will have a say in this......

[Gingerbread Man]

You're dead right BRL, although I believe you also need BMFA (google it) membership for insurance (something like £5m incase you hit someone with the thing).

I flew models before I could afford/was old enough for the real deal, and found it to be pretty straight forward. I'm not sure what the fuss is about when people talk about "looking at it from a different aspect". I haven't flown mine for about 3 years, but it's an Extra 300S, and was a pretty involved job building it. That's the worst part when you're flying it - not the cost of it (about £300 in my case), but the hours that went into making it fly. You will very rarely break the expensive bits of kit (radios, engine, etc), but repairing a battered plane takes so much time. I have never used all of the control travel at high speed either, just because i've got no idea how much G it would tolerate, and it's only made out of plywood. I had a high-wing trainer, which was fun if a little sluggish. It did aeros, but looked a bit like a 172 would doing aeros :p . Chuffing good fun.

Ginger :cool:

TIP: IF you're worried about landing it, fly near a field with tall crops. Then if you can't get it down nicely, you stall it just at crop height and then collect it. Or you can just fly it down into them. Worked when I ran out of juice once.

[wingman863]

I took up R/C flying 3 Christmasses ago after I started doing the real thing. Its great fun and definately harder than flying a full-size plane with you inside. The hangar presently holds a P-51 Mustang, a Cessna 177, a generic high-wing trainer (my first) which is presently in about 4 large pieces after having the misfortune of hitting the house, 2 microlights and a half-built Hugh's 500 helicopter.

The mircolights were hard enough to fly and as mentioned before, trimming them before flying them is essential. I neglected to do this to the required degree which resulted in one of them getting stuck in a series of spirals and landing half a mile away. We got it back after driving up a small mountain with some bi-nocs and going cross-country to get it. Great fun but a bit un-nerving. The P-51 is great and flies like a true fighter, the 177 is in the final stages of construction and looks like it will be a beauty to fly. Helicopter seems like a bit of a death-trap and will probably hit ebay before taking off. This is simply a matter of not wishing to die.

Happy Christmas and if you have any questions feel free to PM me. I was rather crap at the start so repairs and reconstructive surgery are a speciality.

[John Farley]

I was a free flight aeromodeller up to 1955 when I stopped because I had to get on with life as a pilot. Five years ago I decided to go back to models via ARTF and R/C.

Against an advanced R/C friends advice I decided I would teach myself to fly R/C. Pulling back when it was diving was clearly not going to be a problem but how to deal with the roll control in a way that worked when it was both coming towards you and going away was something else again.

I decided that I would treat the aircraft as if it was free flight and talk to it (OK shout at it) as I used to when a kid and the thing was going the wrong way towards a tree or whatever - ‘go left’ or ‘go right’. When I do this with my R/C model my hand has no trouble following my voice.

All I can say is having thought it through BEFORE STARTING it has not been a problem apart from how people stare at you. Another friend of mine, an RAF engineer not pilot, went the professional pay for it buddy box route and after several weekends he got nowhere and rang me up.

I told him ‘go left’ etc and he went back and just flew on the buddy box. When asked by his instructor why things had suddenly clicked he told him about ‘go left’ and he said he would use that in future.

For DIY may I suggest a nice 2 axis glider that will virtually fly itself while you learn how to steer it. I used a Windstar but I don’t expect they are still made. If you are near a hill suitable for slope soaring you might be lucky like me and land after 35 mins on your first trip because you fear for the Rx battery. The pic is of the electric powered Windstar EP which is handy if you don’t have a hill (or get fed up laying out a bungee) but the airframe is just the same as the glider.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/johnfarley/WindstarEPversion.jpg

[nick14]

hey guys,
Iv been aeromodeling since i was 10 (now 18) and now instruct for the local club.

If anyone needs any help/advise or indeed free training dont hesitate to pm or email me.

I have competed in local competitions including pylon racing and aerobatic comps.
I have the nationally recognised BMFA "B" certificate which took me 3years to get. Have been teaching and testing since i was 14.

Any help just ask :ok:

Nick

[email protected]

[david viewing]

Hmmmm, RC models, I think by law you can only fly in a designated area as stated by the local council. You must be a member of a club, for insurance reasons I believe. Of course it will have wings so the CAA will have a say in this......

BRL, do you have references for any of the above? I am not aware of any restrictions on model aircraft relating to councils, clubs, compulsory insurance or the CAA for typical small models up to 7Kg. (7Kg is quite a big model aeroplane and can make a decent dent in a car door. I know this...). On the other hand the 'out of the box' model in this discussion weighs very little and could do no more damage than, say, a kite.

It's true that club membership often confers 3rd party insurance and the BMFA (http://www.bmfa.org/) is a good example. Insurance is a good idea (see 'car door' above). In any case, if you 'self teach' outside of a club as I did as a boy then your progress will be littered with broken and lost models (some of mine are still out there).

To see what can happen, look at this report (http://www.aaiu.ie/AAIUviewitem.asp?id=3606&lang=ENG&loc=1280) from the Irish Accident Unit.

[What's a Girdler]

I used to fly RC models when I was a teenager a few years ago, it was highly stressful and I began to dread each Saturday and Sunday morning to see my beautiful creation sitting in my bedroom and wondering how many bits it would be in when I got home that night.

I once snapped a dowell which held the wings on, I had no replacement, and being a young slapdash kid I replaced it with a pencil! Needless to say that afternoon I climbed the plane up to a particularly high altitude (I reckoned 500ft I could be wrong), carried out a loop to which the wings separated from the fuselage, ripping the aerial off and sticking the throttle open fully, I have never seen a cruise missile before. Needless to say I had to dig the engine and radio guts out with a very large shovel, and my plane didn't improve its looks much.

I think the real thing is alot morre relaxing.

[Gingerbread Man]

If you're worried about losing a model David V, there's a modern-day solution to it. They make a throttle fail-safe that cuts the throttle if you lose the signal from the transmitter. This all sounds great until you consider that the model is still out of range, so it will just fall at a slightly closer location than otherwise. I suppose one could jump in the car and chase it trying to regain control before it hit the ground. That sounds like a challenge....

Ginger :p