Seneca III or Piper Aztec E

[cosworth211]

Further to my post on multi rates (thanks for the replies) has anyone any experience of these two types? i.e. performance, handling, complexity etc. I have found both available locally at similar rates. I am looking to hour build during my ATPL's in a twin and would like an aircraft that would improve my skills the most.

Thanks in advance :)

[jabberwok]

The Aztec is a nice aircraft to hone your skills on. Complex but not overly so, docile and, to me, rather a sweet aircraft. It pays to spend a lot of time with the manual and getting to know the systems.

If it is the E you will be flying it may not have the interlink between the flaps and elevator (I've only flown the "F"). If so expect a marked trim change when lowering flaps.

[High Wing Drifter]

Because the Seneca 3 is turbocharged, I certainly have found the it takes a little getting used to. Gives you more to think about because of the double whammy of increased lag and the ease of overboosting. Basically a smooth measured approach is a must for go-arounds and practicing stalls, etc. Plus, I found the throttle very sensitive too. A little touch can loose or gain a few inches :\ Not quite as touchy as the Turbo Arrow though.

Handling is, heavy but a sinch really. Only just started my MER so not a qualified opinion.

[Malcolm G O Payne]

have a reasonable amount of time on both. As had been said, the Seneca has the comkplexity of turbo-charging. With one or two up the Cof G is well forward and it may be desirable to carry ballast in the baggage bay. Because of this it can be difficult to land. The Aztec is nice to fly, although the type went out of production some years ago and the remaining aircraft are likely to be a little tired. Again, as has been said, the main thing to watch is the trim change when flap is lowered for the approach.

[stiknruda]

I've flown both - but a wee while ago and have a similar amount of time in both.

Both are pretty straightforward but learning the emergency gear system deployment is paramount.

The Cheyenne II on the other hand I always found to be SO pitch sensitive that speed control on the approach was porpoise like!

If I had to choose - I'd go Seneca!!

Stik

[Final 3 Greens]

Stikearning the emergency gear system deployment is paramount. Agree, certainly for the Aztec - it certainly has redundancy in that area ;)

[Malcolm G O Payne]

I have had the misfortune to have to use the emergency gear system on both types in anger. The simplest is the Seneca as the gear is held up by hydraulic pressure and operating the emergency gear lowering knob simply dumps all the pressure out of the system. It is important to ensure that the airspeed is low as the nose gear retracts forward and is assisted in lowering by air pressure. The Aztec nose gear retracts rearwards, so it needs assistance. You have to slide the left-hand pilot's seat fully rearwards and it uncovers a panel in the floor wth a butterfly nut. Removing the panel exposes a ring and cable attached to a gas cylinder that provides the pressure to help the gear down. You pull the ring, but there is no obvious reaction and you have to glue your eyes to the mirror on the left nacelle. After an interminable time you will see the nose gear appear and eventually lock down.

[BigEndBob]

Aztec..make sure it comes with a pair of ear plugs!.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just butting in here (I don't actually know either type well enough to offer an opinion myself), but for those who didn't notice - Cosworth is looking for the aeroplane most likely to hone his ATPL/Multi skills than the quietest or most fun to fly.

G

[Kiltie]

I've flown both. If you have an IR, go for the Seneca, use its turbochargers to get you in to the FL teens of Airways flying (with oxygen of course) and avoid Eurocontrol en-route IFR charges that the Aztec would incur you (most Senecas have a max AUW of 1999kg).

The Aztec is a tougher beast that will be more forgiving of poor engine management. It is also more suited to grass strip work.

The Seneca is roomier if you want to fill the seats but you will have to trade a lot of fuel in lieu.

[formationfoto]

I would go for the Seneca II with MAUW of 1999Kg huge savings on landing fees and euronav charges. I prefer the handling of the Seneca as the Aztec is a bit more ponderous. You can carry more in the Aztec legally but the Seneca can carry much more than the paperwork will allow. For my money I would take the Seneca although I can only afford the Aztec!