Permanent Health Insurance as a PPL

[QDMQDMQDM]

I am trying to get PHI to cover my locum costs as a GP and am currently unable to do so with any policy which wil include incapacity arising from private flying.

I have got life insurance, though, at no extra loading.

Has anyon else managd this, if so with what firm?

Thanks,

QDM

[kui2324]

Currently at work so can't check and it's not something I can remember off the top of my head.

I managed to get cover with someone - will check when I get home and let you know!

kui

[QDMQDMQDM]

Thanks, kui.

Look forward to hearing.

[FullyFlapped]

Kui,

Could you publish this rather than PM QDM please ? I'm trying to find the same thing.

Thanks!

FF :ok:

[kui2324]

No problem - just have to find it from underneath a pile of stuff that I should be sorting out and sending to the accountant but am trying to ignore ...

kui

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Interesting question. I wasn't actually flying when I bought my PHI policy, suppose I'd better have a look at it and see what it does and doesn't cover ...

[kui2324]

QDM, FF

Found under a pile of receipts - Friends Provident. I have both my Locum and Income protection through them.

I fly about 100 hours a year and have a few other complicating factors but they were happy to cover me with no exclusions. As long as I pay their fees of course!

GtW

As for taking up aviation after taking out PHI - I believe if you take out life assurance and then take up flying they may well cover you for little or nothing extra. Your PHI may be the same. But it's definitely worth checking out. Not that I hope you ever have to use it.

HTH

kui

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Yes, mine's the Equitable / Liverpool Victoria one too, the policy documents will have migrated to the attic by now, maybe next time I'm up there ...

[QDMQDMQDM]

Thanks, everyone. Liv Vic are the ones who are currently being arsey. I will look into it.

Cheers,

QDM

[Cusco]

They do seem to be getting stricter:

I came to flying late in my professional life,when I was already PHI'd and life insured up to the hilt.

When I notified 'em all that I had taken up flying I remained fully covered, at no extra cost.

However I do appreciate that you GPs have a different contractual arrangement to us Hospital types.

Either way I baled out of the Nash in October so I'm binning the PHI now.

Have you tried Besso? If you're an AOPA member you may get a discount: I got 10%.

Safe flying

Cusco

[IO540]

May be cheaper to bank the premiums instead.

The worst case scenario is being healthy for many years while paying for the insurance :O

Recently I had a little treatment (non-risky moles removed) and went private to jump the NHS queue (3 days v. 6 months). The receptionist was astonished when told I had no insurance but was paying the £150 myself. The consultant agreed with me however; he reckons PHI is a waste of money and it's better to bank the money at 5% gross. The reception was packed with people paying £500-£1000/year and getting 1/4 of it back every year.....

For years I used to pay BUPA, which is about the most basic cover available. Even so, with 2 adults and 2 kids, we lost money massively (£thousands) for a number of years.

The average UK taxpayer pays around £2000/year for the NHS and they do all the emergency work anyway, cancer treatment is done fast too, PHI usually does not cover any treatment which is not available on the NHS (not a lot of people know that, so no fancy drugs or $50k operations in California).

So the probability of something happening which a working person truly cannot afford to pay for, yet which is not a pre-existing condition, is minimal.

Just my view :O

Insurance will always lose you money - unless you get lucky.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

May be cheaper to bank the premiums instead.

"PHI" usually means "permanent health insurance" which is nothing whatsoever to do with insuring for private medical treatment - it's to do with having an income if you are rendered incapable of working.

Insuring for private medical treatment can be worthwhile, by the way. One of my kids had a cancer for which the NHS essentially offered no treatment. So we had it sorted out privately, which cost many thousands, being several years of BUPA subscriptions.

[Cusco]

Just to echo: Permanent health insurance is not the same as private medical insurance:

20 years ago when I had mega monthly bills the prospect of not being able to earn through chronic ill-health kept me awake at night.


PHI changed all that: fortunately I never needed it and now , having retired I've binned it:

Banking the premiums instead would never have covered the cost of , say, 20 years lost salary.

OK the premiums are gone/lost now, but it kept my peace of mind: rest assured that if any of you PMI insured earners hits a prolonged period of ill-health my premiums will pay for you.

Safe (and healthy) flying.

Cusco

[IO540]

GTW

Apologies for the mis-interpretation, and I am glad you were able to make good use of it. It's interesting though; a BUPA rep told me very clearly (c. 2000) that they would not cover any treatment which is not on the NHS.

As for getting one's money back, it's going to be like any other insurance. I have good knowledge (luckily not personal) of a large PHI claim. The insurer spent 15 years sending the man (who was getting 2/3 final salary all this time) to various doctors in the hope that one of them will say he's fit for work. IMV the range of conditions where one would get long term payments like described is pretty narrow. Has to be otherwise the premiums would be unaffordable to anybody; you could just say you had a "bad back". You practically need to end up substantially crippled, physically or mentally, to get the long term payouts which are used to sell the policies.

Being an average person, I'd still bank the money :O Of course it all depends on dependents, and who is paying for it.

[kui2324]

As a partner in a GP practice part of our 'partnership' agreement is that we each have to have short term 'locum' insurance to protect our partners' (and our) income should we become incapacitated through illness. This has to kick in at a set period of time and last for a year. At which point if we're not fit enough to return the partnership can be dissolved. This allows us to maintain some income through the practice but also allow our colleagues to employ a locum whilst we're off.

Of course as a protection to our income after the year is up it's up to us to decide what to do. But this is not medical insurance it is income protection. The confusing bit is that there are clearly a few of us docs who fly, who are in need this!

[IO540]

kui2324

I know nothing about your business but ordinarily in business this would be handled by what used to be called a key man policy. The company takes out insurance cover for key people, pays the premium, and banks the payout if somebody can't do the work. I am well out of touch on this however, not having looked at it for years.

Actually both PHI and BUPA-type private medical insurance are substantially driven by the dependents situation. One may pay premiums to cover one's children, for example. In both cases, if one is healthy, one could be paying for decades before making a claim. For a family of 4 it easily represents five figures blown away which could be invested in a kitty.

To top it all, the medical insurance premiums go up as you get older, so that £10k hi-tech replacement hip which the salesmen are so fond of talking about will be awfully expensive by the time you need it :O

I have cancelled all my insurance. Just 3rd party for the car, and fire insce for the bare building. The private pension fund is in trust with the kids as beneficiaries - much cheaper than life insurance (premium cost is zero).

Who needs an IFA - just log onto pprune :O :O

[kui2324]

Unfortunately us General Practitioners are self-employed and act as 'independent contractors to the NHS'. So, therefore, we have to look after ourselves. Locums don't come cheap and the cost has to be covered. Any medical insurance is an optional extra!