Stapleford

[Kempus]

Hey guys,

Posted about this scheme in the other wanabies forum but never seem to get any replies about it.

Basically they are holding an assesment day on the 18 sept which involves a sim check but i've very little flying experience so a little worried what to expect.

I know this isn't a sponsorship scheme they a re running but type rating + 100 line hours for less than an OAT course seems like a good thing to me!

Any info, any ideas give me a holla!

kempus :}

[AIRWAY]

Hello,

Will this programme be available on the A320? When i went to the open day @ stapleford they werent sure, any progress?


Many Thanks

[sammyhostie3]

AEU only operate mainly 73's, so I would doubt if it is conjunction with them.

[BigGrecian]

Please read the I will not pay for a type rating thread!!!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=104
Don't pay to sit in a B737! You should be being paid to do that. I won't elaborate further its all in the thread!

[AIRWAY]

AEU only operate mainly 73's, so I would doubt if it is conjunction with them

Hello,

I was told that they were negotiating with a specific airline ( which operates A320 ) regarding the above type of line training, but this was a couple of months ago, so i was just wondering if there was any progress.

AIRWAY

[south coast]

dont pay for a type rating......!

[AIRWAY]

No offence, but this is a Stapleford/Astraeus topic, theres a topic already for ranting about paying or not paying for a type rating, lets not divert this one as well.

[StudentInDebt]

Why not Airway? Its just as relevant as it is on the other thread.

Of course the paid for type rating detractors could do a little better than to simply say don't do it, they could point out that having paid for the type rating and for line training on top of the standard modules, you are no more likely to get a job in an airline than anyone else, perhaps less so due to any operator not owning 737s (or A320s etc) being put off by an applicant having a type specific rating. They could point out that the two largest 737 operators in the UK prefer their own-trained type rated low-time people to the graduates of the AEU scheme. They could mention that AEU themselves freely admit that they will not be able to offer jobs to every graduate from the Bond type rating course. They could also mention that signing up for a paid for line training course is in all probability reducing the chances of someone actually getting a job for the sponsoring airline for a season (although this point is negated by the requirement for Jump Seat FOs during line training). They will also ignore the fact that the Stapleford/AEU/Bond scheme does seem to be fulfilling a niche in the market that is limited in the grand scheme of graduates from integrated/modular courses to those that can afford it and have the desire to gain their first employment on jets.

The danger of this scheme is that people are signing up for a lot of training , possibly without realising the future consequences. It is an innovative scheme and offers the prospective candidate far more than a standard Oxford Integrated course even with the JOC. It is a new idea though and only time will tell whether its graduates have any more success in gaining full-time, paid employment than those that do not opt for the "value-added extra" (see a recent topic regarding Stapleford's marketing managers claim for graduates of their courses finding employment).

[AIRWAY]

Hi,

Nice post studentindebt :ok:

I dont mean not to discuss it's just im a bit tired of a specific topic with a simple and specific question diverting to the likes of pay&dont pay for a type rating ( when there is a lively topic about it going on already) and in the end the purpose of the original post or questions are ignored, thats all.

Maybe it's just me and i am interpreting the original post in the wrong way... If so then apologies.

Regards

[Kempus]

Hi guys!

Thanks for the replies but the question that i stated was mainly to ask what to expect for the "sim check" part of the assesment day. At no point what so ever did i actually mention that i was a def starter for the course.

The day invloves the already mentioned sim check, physcometric tests, airline type interview with chief pilot and technical exam.

From this you are given full feedback on each part to identify all strengths and weaknesses. Not just a simple suitable/unsuitable per subject heading.

Now for me it will give me an idea wether to persue ambition of a pilot or it may just say, hell no chance. Least that way i'll know rather than forking out 50k+ and never making it past the training.

As for all this dont pay for type rating stuff etc, should that decsion not be left to the individual?? Yeah if they have money to burn, which i dont, go ahead. I'm interested in this scheme because it will maybe make me stand out for the other 200 odd CV's lying on that desk. In all honesty i'd rather do an OAT full time course or learn outside the UK but it is not poss. For almost the same money i can get a type rating and 100hrs actual flying experience with an airline. Now if i were too go to a bank and ask for money they would ask, OAT gives you what? - min flying hrs to gain licence then off you go. Stapleford? - A type rating plus experience. (please note i know there is no offer of a job at the end of the course and i am considering it on the assumtion that there never will be!!!! From Astraeus maybe anyway).

Now, which would you rather go for if the bank manager? The one that is the same from the OAT processing line or the one that has made an effort to have a distinct difference.

Please dont post anymore about to buy or not to buy a type rating.

Now back to my original question about the, what to expect???

Kempus

[Kempus]

anyone out there?

[FatFlyer]

Has anyone done the SFC/Astraeus 737 + 100hrs on type scheme and got a job with that experience?
(please no more discussion on self funded type ratings as done on another thred)
Just interested whether the scheme is getting people jobs.

[lookoutbelow]

I am able to say that at the current time nobody on the above scheme has finished the ab-anitio training element (most are around PPL / Hour building stage) and therefore no pilots have achieved the B737 TR through the discussed scheme. Therefore it is inpossible that anybody has recieved an interview having 'finished' the scheme for a B737 job.

All I can say is that for c. £50k, personally I would rather have a fATPL with MCC, B737 TR, all required SEP/Safety courses and 100 Hrs jet experience for approximately the same cost that other FTO's are charging for their basic Intergated fATPL courses. At the end of the day you will definately be higher up that pile of CV's on the Chief Pilots desk when it comes down to it.

[MorningGlory]

Can't comment on the Astraeus scheme in conjunction with SFC as I don't know much about it, however, I can say that I completed CPL/IR MCC at SFC and along with at least a dozen others I can think of over the last 2yrs, we are all flying for various airlines on numerous different types.

In my opinion SFC is a first class outfit providing quality and competitively priced training with excellent contacts in the airline industry..

Good luck all who sail in her.. & Merry Xmas SFC!!

[MUGGEDAGAIN]

I know a few guys who did the Global scheme at Astraeus back in June and are still waiting for their line sectors. I guess having sent back a couple of 737's and put two out to wet lease in Asia there is a desperate shortage of training capacity, so watch out if you are expecting a fast track to the airlines, the 100hrs might take you a year. I understand they now offer Airbus?
I would rather spend my money with CTC or Jet2.

[Callsign Kilo]

Anyone trained here/or training here?? Im interested in the zero hours to CPL/IR modular course which enables me to do my ground study/exams at the Glasgow College of Nautical Studies.

Also considering combining this with the Astraeus 737 type rating/line training upon completion of the IR. Does anyone have any suggestions or personnal experience??

Many thanks

[flyfish]

I did the latter part of my training at Stapleford , some of the hours building, the CPL, multi rating and the I/R.
Great school and top notch instructors who really know their stuff. I found them very flexible and will work hard to fit in with you and your availability.

I start the MCC and JOT with Astraeus in a few weeks so I cant comment on how good or bad they are other than to say, I am more than happy with the price they quoted me for those two courses.

Kilo if I can help you anymore feel free to send me a PM.

[MorningGlory]

I also did my latter part of the training at SFC couple of years ago. Would agree with comments above and would recommend SFC to anyone.

I didn't do the Astraeus thing as it was only just being thought about when I was there, I did however like all the people who I trained with manage to get an airline job not long after MCC.

Good Luck.

[judojamesg]

Just wondered if anyone has actually completed stapleford's ATPL course as well as the Astraeus course (B737 type rating)???

Have you mangaged to get a job?

What did you think of the training?

Did Stapleford or astraeus help with emmployment?

Any other comments?

Is the type rating and line experience with astraeus necessary?

[Callsign Kilo]

I am begining training at Stapleford Flight Centre in the second week of October. Took a lot from my visits, fairly relaxed school which holds a good reputation. I am aiming to do my type rating/line training with Astraeus upon completion of my CPL/IR. However there is a lot of work to be done before then...one step at a time and all!!!

[judojamesg]

I am also looking at stapleford. I have been accepted by oxford for their APP but i am having trouble with raising the funds to do it! So i am looking at other possible ways to achieve my goal.
From what i have read, stapleford is well recommended, its just finding out where people have gone after their training.

Hope to find some more posts soon!

Many thanks
James

[wince]

Judojamesg,

Whatever you do, unless you've got something on paper, you're on your own. Don't beleave any training providers, they're only after your money. That's my advice.

[Callsign Kilo]

James

Stapleford claim that 100 out of 105 students that sat a type rating/line training with Astraeus (which has nothing to do with SFC) last year are employed. By who or where, who knows??

However Im ready to give it a throw, it seems like a very professional school that will give you all the credentials needed to do what you aspire to do - Thats why I'm going!!

Good luck whatever you decide

[judojamesg]

Well good luck kilo.

anyone else have any more info?

James

[jamesharlow]

I have friends at Stapleford - good bunch - however 100 hours on B737 - noyt so sure! I have heard from other guys and gals, that you hardly get to fly.
Also that guys with just a plain type rating stand just as much chance of work wihout the extra outlay.
I think Stapleford is professional and highly regarded by many, but have heard some not so good things about the B737 line training part of the whole thing.
Just rumours though - this is a PP rumour network isn't it?
Oh and if I had the choice and cash I would go for Oxford -but that is personal choice - Hey, I like the Oxfordshire country side.

[judojamesg]

thanks for your views james.

To me stapleford is looking a bit more realistic to me at the moment. From 0 to fATPL is around £30,000.

It would be intertesting to find out what people did after completing their training.

Anyone of these people out there??

James

[lookoutbelow]

Hi Guys and Girls,

As the product (fATPL at Stapleford and the attached B737 TR and 100 Hrs of Line Training with Astraeus / Bond) was established well under 18 months ago it is doubtful that even the very first students have even finished the fATPL let alone begun the TR, let alone flown the 100Hrs B737 line training.

That is why you will be struggling for feedback from students who have completed the whole package.

Best regards

Lookoutbelow

[Coly]

Hey everyone,
Anybody know anything about staplefords flight training??

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

You could try: http://www.flysfc.com/

[ChocksAwayUK]

Lots of threads here about SFC.. the vast majority very positive.

[scruggs]

Hi all,

Does anybody have any experience/knowledge of the Stapleford Flying Club? I.e. does it have a good reputation for its teaching qaulities etc? After completing my (f)PPL, I was thinking of going there to do the (f)ATPL.

Any opinions/info would be greatly appreciated.

All the best,

Steve.

[CapCon]

Hi Easy,

I've done exactly the same thing; got my PPL with another school then moved to Stapleford. Why? Well to be totally honest the initial attraction was the price! Far cheaper than what i was currently paying.

So i rang up and had a quick chat with the Commercial Co-ordinator, who was very helpful and invited me to have a tour of the site and Q&A session. No hesitations - I joined.

Reasons why:

-Overall good value for money
-Very, very friendly atmosphere!!
-Good hourly rate for aircraft hire and plenty of aircraft (Have been with them for 6 months and have never had a problem with aircraft availabilty.)
-The training aircraft are well equipped
-No landing fees for members
-The facilities are excellent, especially the sim centre.
-Stapleford send their students to London Metropolitan University to do their ATPL ground exams. I'm already at LMU studying Aviation Management BSc so I know the staff.
-Finally, they have just got a DA42 Diamond twin star - Can't wait to get my hands on that :E

Anyway as you can probably guess, I can't recommend Stapleford highly enough. If you want to do a modular course then Stapleford is THE place!

I suggest getting in contact with Stapleford http://www.flysfc.com/ and ask for Emma Drakeford. She's very helpful and can explain the course better than I can.

Cheers,

CapCon :ok:

[scruggs]

Hi CapCon,

Cheers for the reply. By the sounds of it, it seems like a fantastic place to complete my (f)ATPL. I've been in touch with Emma Drakeford just yesterday, and I have an information pack enroute! As I hope to complete my (f)PPL by the end of this summer, fingers crossed I'll be heading down to SFC sometime this year.

Thanks again for the info, good luck with the rest of your degree/flying training.

Steve.

[GrahamK123]

Has anyone got any experience of the full time 'AB Initio' course? Also could someone explain to me the 'Astraeus Airlines B737 rating with 100 hours line training' obv a B737 type rating but what about the 100 hours line training? Does it mean you pay said airline to fly for 100 hours?
thanks

[Turkish777]

Started there yesterday, the aircraft (Diamond DA-42 Twin) and simulator are by far the most impressive, newest training aircraft I have ever seen in any flight school. Prices are very good (For England)

[CapCon]

GK123,

The Astreus T/R with 100 hours is exactly that. Training is carried out at Gatwick for the T/R. You then pay Astreus for 100 hours acting as FO. You will fly with a training captain and, for the first few hours a second supervisor, on a revenue flight.

CapCon

[GrahamK123]

Thanks Capcon!
So the 100 hours line training is there to make you more employable when you apply for that first job? Would there be any possible link jobwise with Astreus once the type rating/line training is complete or is it purely using them as a training provider?

Graham

[smith]

Can someone enlighten me on what an (f)PPL encompasses?

Thanks

Smith

[CapCon]

Well it would be nice to think so! From what I can gather from the Astreus website and talking to people, there are an elite few who get asked to stay with Astreus after completing their T/R. Just depends on current demands and if they see potential in you I guess!

[tom24]

The 100 hours scheme was once very appealing to me, however I have heard:

They say you're based at Gatwick, but you will end up flying from wherever they want yoo to, which more often than not will be somewhere other than Gatwick, all out of your own pocket.

They tell you 3/4 months to complete, but it is taking some people 8, 9 or 10 months to do it.

Basically I think they became a bit greedy and the course was over filled.

But if you do it you'll probably have a good chance getting a job afterwards - if you have patience and a fat wallet.

[GrahamK123]

I may be wrong and please tell me if i am but from what i've seen on airline recruitment websites etc they either want pilots with thousands of hours of experience or some have a few places for low hours pilots (200hrs). What would be the advantage to having the 100 hours training if they will accept you with 200 non-jet hours. Plus they will pay you to fly for them- not you paying them for experience. If i'v missed the point please feel free to say....

[FLYbyWIT]

SFC have an excellent sucess rate which speaks volumes, dont just think of the astreaus deal.
Students and instructors from the last few years now flying for :
Easyjet / Ryanair / BACX / Air Asia / First Chioce / Air Atlanta / Flyjet / Wizzair / Aer Arann / Jet2 / Excel / flyglobespan / and quite a few in excellent instructing roles or involved in corporate bizz jet jobs.
They can boast all the same names as the likes of OATS or whoever but dont. I am sure there is many more with other airlines but the above represent what I know of people from my time there. :ok:

[CapCon]

I agree with WIT,

There's more to SFC than Astreus. Last time I was there I spoke to one of the instructors about his views of the Astreus T/R. He suggested that I would be better off getting a T/R through a Ryanair approved centre and getting a job through them? And only to use Astreus as a 'last choice'. I don't really know much about the Ryanair T/R, what does anyone else think? :confused:

[tom24]

You have to go through CAE or SAS to do the TR - not easy to gain a place, but if you do your MCC through Parc (who SFC use) and impress then you may find yourself on the fast track to shelling out £17k plus!

[smith]

Off track a little, but if you did a 73 type rating outwith the Ryanair approved providers and applied to Ryan, would they knock you back completely or will their web application not allow you to apply? Just wondering, as the through put from the approved providers is not keeping up with demand AFAIK.

Smith

[hedges81]

starting a stapleford myself this year. Went many of the half decent mod course providers to look round, quite simply SFC was the best and cheapest I saw. The diamond twin planes for the ir are a massive draw, and far outstrip anything the integrated students will use at OAT or cabair.

The reputation of SFC is growing and growing, I challenge anybody to find a bad comment about them on this web site.

[dobsjn44]

How can Stapleford offer there ATPL ab initio price at such a low cost (~28K) when OAT and Cabair are in the region of 50-60K ??

[Dirty Harry 76]

dobsjn44

Simple, less overhead and more efficient for example

No fancy brochures
No fancy BS adverts in mags
Less people walking around in expensive suits\uniforms
You dont have to pay for the pensions and bonuses of such people.

Who do you think pays for the PALACE of Cabair\OAT. Those who go.

Simple economics and business

[GrahamK123]

#11 anyone?

[Ruthless]

What if any are the disadvantages of doing your training on an a/c with a glass cockpit. Could you still fly say seneca a/c under IFR conditions without the need for further ratings. Also the training is done on the diamond aircraft is the simulator which they use type specific, or is it conventional dials and gauges.

[tom24]

Believe me, once you get in the DIamond you will not want to go near the Seneca again. though if you want to, I see no reason why you can't do the IR in the Senecas - though you might piss the IR instructors off........

Re the sim. They don't mess about down there. Since last month they have installed a brand new Diamond sim which replicates the real thing perfectly.

[too_sleepy]

Hi
Just noticed in my Stapleford brochure that the modular Multi rating is in the Seneca and the Multi IR is completed in the Diamond. Does this make any sense to anyone? If I'm paying for 6 hours in a twin I don't see the sense in doing it in a different aircraft than the one I'll fly for IR training.

[carbheatout]

You can't get your MER in the Diamond as its too straight forward to fly basically. It only has one set of power levers and basically is quite forgiving in an engine out situation. It is for that reason you do the MER is the Seneca.

[Air Polygamy]

tchhuuu tchhhuuuu

I'm reading a lot about Stappleford. Ok training seems ok...what about accommodation?
My choices were, CABAIR, then it wen to PAT at Bournemouth, now it's Stappledord.
Is there a bad comment around about stappledord?
I still need information about accommodation. London is expensive ...

[CapCon]

I'm not sure of the exact details but I seem to believe that Stapleford can offer fairly cheap accommodation close to the airfield. The best thing to do is give 'em a call.

As regards to bad comments, Air Polygamy, I'll let you know if I ever come across one. So far I can't fault a thing!

[Air Polygamy]

In case I go to Stapleford and find out they ain't that good. Would I be able to get my money back if I tell them Capcon lied to me ???

[Callsign Kilo]

You can get Accomodation for £10 on the airfield at Stapleford

[Air Polygamy]

Ok about the airfield ?

Now let's talk about London aaahhh London ... you're going to make me go bankrupt if I were to live with you !

[Turkish777]

Stapleford is actually in Essex but close to London, Ongar is the nearby town which isn't too lively..

Regarding the Diamond the only downfall Ive found is that I can't do the entire IR skills test in it, apparently the partial panel part of the test has to be done in the Senaca due to the turn slip/ball indicator not being available in the glass cockpit. This maybe able to be done in the Senaca sim..still waiting for feed back from them....

[Callsign Kilo]

People from Stapleford have completed and passed the whole IR Skill test in the Diamond DA42

[Air Polygamy]

any advice on where to stay without being bankrupt ... close to stores and LMU ?

[FLYbyWIT]

You can stay on airfield for 70quid a week, not bad accomodation either.
stay in the white house oposite the fuel pumps or the newer student rooms in the sfc main building. Real nice atmosphere and no complaints.
Loved every minute of SFC, and cant recommend it enough.

[Air Polygamy]

Y'all really nice and helpful. I apprecaite your advice. But can anyone pay attention to what I am currently asking ???

Accommodation in London for the ATPL gs.

Thanx y'all :}

[Turkish777]

Callsign kilo

Apparently its because I did my CPL Multi in the USA

[CapCon]

AP,

I think you've got three main choices:

1 - Accommodation supplied by SFC (Someone previously suggested £70 per week)

2 - LMU Student Halls
http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/accommodation/
(Looking at around £80-£90 per week)

3 - Contact a london lettings agency (Probably looking at no less than £100 per week.)

CapCon

[magicmick]

Stapleford sounds like an excellent place to train, can anyone tell me is it possible to live in the Stapleford accommodation and commute to the university for ground school or is that not practical?

Are there any Stapleford graduates reading this that have gone on to find full time employment? If so please don’t be shy, share your story with us:

When did you graduate?
How long did you spend under training?
How long did you wait after graduating before landing the first job?
Did Stapleford help you to get the first job or did you do it all by yourself?
How old were you when you graduated (age is a sticky point for me as I’m coming to aviation late in life as a career change)?

As far as the question how can some schools charge 60k when others charge 30k goes then I honestly think that the simple answer is ‘Because They Can’, if people are willing to pay 60k for your product or service then you are not going to charge 30k for it. I recently (December 2005) attended open days at OAT and CabAir, very impressive affairs they were too and there seemed to be an awful lot of people willing to spend 60k. Maybe the slick marketing and hype are working and maybe Stapleford are missing a trick. Whether or not you feel that the kudos of having a big name on your cv and an integrated course plus the extras that may be offered (free re-qualification after a year, employment assistance etc) are worth the extra 30k is a personal decision, if it means the difference between landing a fist job and going on the dole then the answer is yes.

I am currently working abroad and am due to return to the UK in March 2006, I will definitely be arranging a visit to Stapleford and probably to Atlantic Flight Training when I return.

To those of you who are training at Stapleford I sincerely hope that you have the same luck as the Stapleford graduates that have gone onto full time employment and that your self belief, hard work and considerable investment all pay off with interest.

[JS3]

Air Polygamy,

I am currently at LMU doing the residential course. LMU does a great job, and their program is constantly being improved.

As far as accomodations you should check out gumtree.com. On that site you should be able to find some suitable places to live for a reasonable price. Look for areas such as Aldgate and Whitechapel.

Otherwise, send me a PM and I will recommend the place which I am staying at now ( a student accomodation about 15 minutes away).

Good luck with everything.

[Kazakhstan]

Hi,

I am at Stapleford at the moment doing my CPL and while at London Met, I lived with 3 friends who were on my course. We did not know each other before the course but ended up becoming good friends and we rented a property together. My advice would be to stay at the German Catholic Mission for the first few weeks, Julie in the Aviation Dept at London Met has their details. From there you can get easy access to the Uni and once you get to know the people on your course I would suggest moving as soon as possible into a property. Do not go with Ludlow Thompson situated near the Uni as we had a bad experience with them. Also we had problems with our landlord which added to the stresses of the course and did not help our studies.

If you have a car stay at Stapleford, it is only £70 per week and you can get the tube into London. It is as easy as that, you can also apply for a student rail card. There is no worrying about council tax, rent, bills. You also have a lot of people who have gone through it all and will be happy to answer any questions or help. Also I would suggest that people do a little hour building during the ATPL course to relax. Not flying for months can be difficult and the flying will keep you motivated.

As for the Uni Halls of Residence you are not eligable being on the ATPL course. Only if you do the 2 yr Aviaiton Management course.

The teacher at London Met a great and helped me to get through the exams.

All the best,

Kazakhstan.

[carbheatout]

Not flying for months can be difficult and the flying will keep you motivated

Borat, i think the miniature bottle of brandy you sipped in class kept you motivated!

You should let the people here know of the good relations you built with the German population at the Mission.

Good luck with the CPL pal.

[Kazakhstan]

My Defence I was feeling I'll (Brandy helps kill a cold)
Besides, you should not be giving away my secrets for concentrating in Class.

I love Germans, great bunch!!

Many thanks will enjoy CPL getting on very well with my Instructor.

Good luck with PARC.

[vigilant_spacey]

Im geared towards starting an ATPL course this september, and have narrowed it down to either stapleford flight centre or professional aviation training. I would love to hear any opinions on their courses and also on glasgows nautical college for the atpl exams.

Any help dearly appreciated, or other suggestions, although i am looking at the cheaper places simply because I cannot afford much more!

Thanks again


Sam

[richarjm]

I have just finished my Stapleford cpl/multi-ir and did the nautical college theory course in Glasgow. Here lie my opinions.
Nautical College: Good bunch of people who know their stuff and are willing to answer any question. The notes were distinctly average when I attended last year with the exception of Gen Nav. Those notes were superb thanks to a re-write by the subject's teacher. If Glasgow is handy for you and you are willing to put the work in they will get you through. You'll probably have quite a good time too!
Stapleford: Really excellent school. Very relaxed and friendly but also very professional and focused. Sounds too good but is true. Nice accomodation and facilities, good CPL aircraft and glass cockpit Multi/IR. The instructors are very helpful and friendly and there is a good social side. I heard no serious complaints and only a few minor ones in my time there. Again though you get out only what you put in!
Hope this helps
JR

[vigilant_spacey]

thanks jr, much appreciated. Anyone else? Have been advised by a friend not to use stapleford, with no real reasons so i'm curious to find out if anyone has any negatives. Also I know little about PAT.

Thanks again

[bad credit]

I went to PAT to do my CPL / ME IR and have no complaints. The aircraft all have the same layout (helpful), the facilities are good and the career instructors excellent. The CAA examiners are also based at Bournemouth airport which makes life easier. Why not go down and visit them. With the amount of money you are spending, a tour of the facilities and a trial of the FNPT 2 sim is well worth it!
At my time at PAT not one person failed their IR test. This speaks volumes for the instructors and the school as a whole.....

[Dirty Harry 76]

Only have good things to say about Stapleford. They came recommended to me:-

Commercial/IR Instructors are experianced/good.
Aircraft are good spec.
Courses are priced well.
Everyone is friendly/good social scene.
Sim is modern.
Free use of student car (just put in the Gas).
Good access to Tube, Rail Network and Stanstead.
Accomodation on site, comfortable and probably the cheapest in Essex for what you get.
Free Internet:ok:

Dont know about London Met but can Highly recommend Bristol GS.

There seems to be some debate about Glass Cockpit vs Conventional Instruments. Think its all down to experience, when you have some time under your belt converting between the 2 different types is not a problem. Dont think its a big a deal as people think.

Only downside is that the head of training has had a personality bypass:8 . But think hes much better now since he married the Cute Chick.:D

[vigilant_spacey]

All good advise, will take on board. And i'll definitely be touring at least these two schools before i decide.

Thanks guys

[AreYouForReal]

With regard to staplford and london met, the advice stapleford give is to go to london met, but you are in no way contracted to go there.
I can say that the lectures are very good, if not occasionally drawn out. The second and third phase feedback, (exam question bank), is exellent, however, i would recommend that you do get bristol internet access at £50 for three months FOR ALL PHASES. This is an added as some questions bristol have the london met dont, and visa versa.
The Lecturers are only to happy to help at any point, and they are very friendly, and fora price that cant be beaten, plus you get to sit the exams in house, (For now).

[SimJock]

Interesting, I am also considering these two organisations. Have been to SFC, looked OK but very busy (hectic ?), also I was told that the accomodation is fully booked for the rest of the year, local accom nowhere near as cheap. Have reservations on doing IR on DA42 but PA34 IR is an option although slightly more expensive, overall impression not bad and cannot be beaten on price it seems, plusno landing fee for my flying visit :ok:

Hoping to visit PAT next week.

[Leezyjet]

I visited Stapleford a couple of weeks ago. I was very impressed with the school and the facilities on offer.

I can 99% say that I will be using them for my CPL/ME/IR when I get to that stage.

:)

[Jas1]

Hi, guys trying to figure out intagrated or modular does any one have any veiws on the modular route through stapleford? dont know if this is been asked already couldnt find it on the forums:confused:

any info will help thanks

[Damienmk]

I trained at Stapleford and it's basically a good school. It is also one of the cheapest around. I've recommended SFC to quite a few people. And you do the IR on the Diamond Twin star which is an EFIS aircraft and piece of p!ss to fly. Makes the whole IR a lot easier than it is in a Seneca.

[Damienmk]

I did my CPL ME and IR at Stapleford and had a great time. The atmosphere whilst living in the White House at only £10 a night was brilliant. The instructors are all decent and very helpful and the Diamond aircraft is a piece of p!ss to fly.

I now have those pieces of paper in that little blue book that the CAA give you in exchange for £200. Which is exactly what those boys and girls who went to Oxford/Cabair etc have got. Only they paid in the region of 60k/70k for their training. I paid a whole lot less for my training, I have the same peices of paper as them and I'm just as employable!!

It's not a difficult choice to make really is it!!

[Jas1]

cheers dameian. did you do your ppl there aswell how long has the whole thing taken up til now(cost?) n did you do your ground school at LDN MET.

[Damienmk]

Jas,

I learnt to fly in the USA and did my hour building there cos it's a lot cheaper. I did my ATPL studies with Bristol Ground School. I've got quite a few mates who are at London Met at the minute and they do speak highly of the course there. I must admit, I found distance learning tough, but couldn't speak more highly of Bristol Ground School.

If you have the ability to train full time, the whole process will take you about 18 months (Being realistic with weather delays etc) and if you use Stapleford, all in all the bill will come to roughly £40k. That includes all exam fees, flight tests etc. You'll need to find accommodation and living expenses on top of that as well.

You might want to have a look at the website www.beapilot.co.uk. Those guys designed my training plan around my personal circumstances and I've acheived what I set out to do on time and on budget more or less.

DMK

[Steve aka Buk]

Has anybody tried the structured flight experience (hour building) course at Stapleford Flight Centre?

Is it as it says in the brochure - some flight exercises to complete together with some instruction from a CPL instructor to get you ready for the CPL course.

I`m a PPL(A) with about 90 hours and looking to build. Advice here would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Leezyjet]

I'd also be interested to hear as I am considering it too once I have a few more hours.

:}

[Mordacai]

When I was there a few years ago, there was no 'structure' at all beyond 'come in tomorrow and we'll see if we can find you an aeroplance'.

Still the cafe sells nice food, and everyone was really friendly.

[CapCon]

Hi all,

I am currently a quarter of my way through this block so hopefully I can give you a fairly accurate description.

The block itself consists of 99hours flying time (based on flying one of the club's many C152s) and includes 5 hours to achieve your night rating.

As for the 'structured' content.... well not exactly. There isn't a specific layout or set of exercises to carry out (not that I've seen anyway.) I did ask one of the instructors what I should be practising and he mainly recommended nav around the local area, especially to the North & West (with London, Stanstead and Luton all close by.)

Even though this 'structured' block turned out to be a glorified standard hour block, it's still giving you 99 hours at two thirds the price of anyone else in the south east (around £75ph plus discount) plus a night rating. The centre itself is brilliant, everyone is so friendly and the atmosphere is great.

I would definately recommend it!

Cheers,

CapCon

[hedges81]

will be doing the stapleford hours block myself soon, my opinion is that it would be preferable to plan my own 99hours or so of flying, and set my own challenges than to follow a "structure path" that might be set for the hours building at an integrated course.
For me the SFC hours building will be as much an enjoyable experience as a learning one, intentions are to fly all over the place, France, Spain, Italy and see Europe from the Air.

Anyway, as an ably qualified PPL holder do you really need someone telling you how and where ur going to fly each day? As long as you maintain the standards and techniques you have learnt, with a bit of self discipline every tiem you fly there is perhaps no reason why as much, (perhaps more through being your "own man") cannot be gained through an "unstructured" hours building course as a "structured one".

What happens with "structured" hours building anyway, for example at integrated FTOs. How does it differ from "free flying". It would be interesting to hear anyones opinions on this, what if anything is gained.

[Steve aka Buk]

I would just like to say thanks to those who responded to my original message regarding the flight experience course at Stapleford.

Let me introduce myself. I am a 35 year old wannabee who has just resigned from the fire service after 12 years to embark on a career in aviation. My funds are now in place after remortgaing the house and I am now set to structure my training full time via the modular route. I am due to begin Oxford groundschool next month.

My point is this - I feel that because of my age I need to make myself as attractive to employers as possible. The problem with hour building for modular students is that the training is not structured or accessed as it is for intergrated students. Now if I was 10 years younger then I don`t believe this would matter much. I would treat hour building as a time to experience travel and I would have some fun while doing it. But I am not 10 years younger and so I need to make sure that each hour counts and that come the day, hopefully in 18 months time when I attend my first interview that I can show that I took my training seriously.

I have checked out FTO`s and none seem to do a structured hour building course for modular students other than you can buy a block of hours at a discounted price.

Maybe this is a gap in the market that could be taken advantage of.

PS.......GOOD LUCK TO ALL WANNABEES OLD AND YOUNG

[hedges81]

Yeh, but what is "structured hours building"? What exactly are you looking for in your hours building. If an instructor tells u to fly a particular route solo, or if you pick it yourself, what is the difference?

If you look at the various integrated courses, they invariably have the same amount of solo and dual hours as ud get if you did a modualr ppl/cpl/IR anyway.

[too_sleepy]

Hi

I do see a need for some structure when it comes to hour building. After flying in San Diego, Florida and Ireland it becomes a little too easy to pick those nice routes, avoiding the pressure and stress of a difficult destination becomes very tempting.
I would like a list of routes, each of which would challange me in a different way, larger airfields, some grass strips, different levels of ATC and varied weather.
I'm heading to Stapleford in April and have been told by one of their instructors to do some flying in the UK before starting the commercial with them. i reckon that's the best advice I've been given so far. I'll have about 2 weeks to get some experience and I'm hoping they'll offer me a list of good destinations.

[AlexL]

Welcome steve.
I'm mid 30's and I am in the middle of my training. Doing the hours on your own is fine, but the benefit of doing it at stapleford, is a) you get a good deal and b) you can take a CPL instructor up once in a while to give you pointers.
you don't need to do a mega structured hours building deal, but do make every hour count like you said.
I did my hours elswhere, but I set myself Nav ex's everytime I went flying, I went to lots of different airfields and built up to flying in marginal weather and winds.
Don't just drill holes in the sky for 100 hours, if you do the hour building well then you have a much better chance of doing the CPL and IR in minimum hours.
I don't think employers are going to be too bothered about the hour building - My take on the current employment market is that potential employers care about YOU - your attitude, your 'employability' your 'trainability'. They may be interested in the standards of your IR and your sim abilities on the day of the assesment, but I doubt very much if they will care where or how you did those 100 hours of hour building.
Best of luck - us "30 somethings" have got to show the airlines that we are a better bet than those young nippers!

[too_sleepy]

Hi AlexL
Are you training at Stapleford at the moment. I'm looking forward to starting my commercial in April with them and am happy to hear another 30+ student is around.

[2engop]

Does anyone have any advice on Oxford or Stapleford with a type rating? I have been excepted into both and have the finance for either of them but am undecided which one to go for.

[hedges81]

The answer for me is simple. I think it is a fact that OATs integrated course, and Staplefords 0 to ATPL course, with type rating and 100 hours on type cost pretty much the same, give or take a couple of K.

Now ask ur self this question, who would be more attractive to an airline,

1. An OAT "graduate" with 200 hours, and no type rating.

2. A person with an ATPL from Stapleford (200 hours) and a B737 type rating, with 100 hours on type?

It does not take Einstein to work out the answer.

[JustAnotherVictim]

2. A person with an ATPL from Stapleford (200 hours) and a B737 type rating, with 100 hours on type?

I'm not Einstein, but I know you don't get an ATPL after 200 hours....

[jb5000]

Why not just go for the standard course without a type rating, and look for a job after that? Save yourself lots more £££.

[hedges81]

I meant frozen ATPL, clever cloggs.

[Groundloop]

Don't know what Einstein knows about flight training but I know of a few people who did a 737 TR with 100 hrs line flying and are still looking for a job. Airlines response was 100 hours not enough.

[hedges81]

well if 737tr and 100 hours is not enough then 200 hrs with no tr is hardly going to be is it?

[AlexL]

100 hours is more than nothing, and a type rating is better than none.
Ryanair will accept 100 hours and 737 NG rated pilots without you needing to pay for another rating - straight in if you pass the interview / sim check etc etc.
Easy have dropped their requirements to 500 hours so you are getting close with 100 hours - a hell of a lot closer than none.
Airlines basically have 2 questions. Are you employable (attitude, personality etc)? Can you pass a type rating?. Well you've answered one with the above. If you are not 'employable' then it doesn't matter how many qualifications you have in any walk of life, you will struggle to get a job.
Remember with the Stapleford gig you can also walk away and look for jobs before the type rating, saving alot of money compared with OAT.
Bottom line, is the same advice as is always given, go and visit both, see what you think, make your own mind up. Both places have good kit, both places have professional instructors, Both have an excellent record with graduates getting jobs with airlines. Both give the same qualification (ignoring the rating for the time being) one costs twice as much as the other.

[Grampianhills]

Hi Guys,

I was wondering whether anyone can tell me a little more about the Stapleford/ Astraeus Cadet course. It's been some time now since anyone has reported back on how job seeking has been after they have completed their B737 rating. Is it looking good for those who buy there type rating?

I'm also very curious to here from those who have gone thorugh Stapleford and what the connection is with Ryanair and the MCC course in Parc Aviation and how many get through as it appears Stapleford would reccomend this before the Astraeus course. I'm especially curious about this as it appears that it is very hard to get onto Ryanair's Type Rating course if you don not have an advancement. Is this true?

Thankyou - Once again I'm really looking for detailed knowledge from Stapleford alumni,although others appreciated provided no tedius bitching about modular or buying a type rating which bores the hell out of me and frankly pollutes these sites.

cheers,

[Dirty Harry 76]

The Astraeus/Bond scheme is excellent and the standard of instruction throughout is high. For less cost than an Integrated course the Stapleford/Astraeus package will certainly make you stand out in the pilot pool. The vast majority of students find jobs in todays market...........be prepared to travel. The reality is that with just a type rating you will not find work, 100hrs on Type is the VERY minimum.

If your starting out today, given the possible introduction of the Multi Pilot Licence in the near future this course is certainly worth considering.

[carbheatout]

If you want to get into Ryanair and you're decent, go to Parc for MCC, perform well and you will get a crack at Ryanair.

[Grampianhills]

Thanks Guys - this is just the info I'm looking for please kep it coming!

[newbie008]

does anyone recommend these training schools for a zero to fatpl license? just looking around stapleford seems quite cheap and very helpful. any advice? also what do airlines look for - is a fatpl and say 250 hrs enough or type rating etc etc?
cheers

[Grampianhills]

If I was you i'd go with Stapleford. it is very well recognised - it is a flight school which is slowly working its way up the ladder to be on a par with Oxford or Cabair Give it a few years. and economically very attractive. But every man is for him self. I strongy believe it is not where you train but how good you are at flying the bloody aeroplane!

Good Luck You'll get there!

[AIRWAY]

I did some hours at Stapleford and have no complaints whatsoever but this was sometime ago, prices were reasonably cheap, friendly staff and quite a big fleet of a/c, oh and a good breakfast :} :ok:

Gets extremely busy at weekends.

[ivehad2many]

which bournemouth training school you refering to? theres a few down here..

[FOPaul]

Ryanair, Excel airways, and Astreaus(if your lucky), will take people on with the 100 hours and line training. For almost the same cost as Oxford, Stapleford will do it for me! I know Oxford help you more than Cabair to find a job, but frankly if you are type-rated with experience I think you are more likely to get a job flying 737's! Atleast for the same price you will be more marketable.

[FOPaul]

I have heard lots of good things about Stapleford, plenty of aircraft and nice staff. There prices seem very good too, probably one of the best in the UK, and good quality training. I am starting there Mon 13th..anybody going? There accomodation only a tenner per night and self catering...more pasta...beans on toast...thought those uni days were over! Well they get my...:ok:

[newbie008]

I was referring to bournemouth flying club.

[Send Clowns]

It is no longer Bournemouth Flying Club for commercial training. They set up BCFT - Bournemouth Commercial Flight Training.

If you try searching on that and Stapleford I think you will find positive posts for both. Remember that most people don't try more than one school, so when so many say "...go with X" then they are simply saying that they had a positive experience there, not comparing it with any other. They cannot make your decision, really you should check here for a few people's experience but visit any schools you are considering to get the only proper impression you can.

[rich poole]

Hi
Im still in two minds (so open to suggestions) as to what to do after college, i'm thinking of doing a degree and my training towards a fATPL at the same time so; Buckinghamshire and there course with Cabair, or London Met and their pilots pathway foundation degree.
If i was to go to London Met, i would use Stapleford as my training provider. Whats the aircraft Availability like? Do they supply charts and plates etc? Any bad points about this school, can't find any so must be good.:)
Any advice would be brill!
Rich

[sam34]

hi!

are there any difficulties for the training CPL because of the weather at stapleford?

and what are the chance getting job after Stapleford, with only CPL/IR and 200 hours, not type rating of course..?

[littco]

I'm just finishing my PPl at Stapleford and going to continue my training after the atpl exams. In my honest opinion it is very good. I looked at a few schools before deciding on Stapleford and wasn't that impressed with them.

The flying club its self is very good, with plenty of planes and good support to go along with it.

Although from the outside it does look like an old farm yard, don't be put off, as they say don't judge a book by it's cover, just because it doesn't look like OAT , CTC or any of the others it doesn't mean its not as good. The training there is I have to say second to non, I haven't met one bad instructor and all seem totally competent.

I personally don't think you will get better value for money and certainly wont miss out on any of the training you might get else where. The weather is a consideration but, hey this is England it's not going to be that great where ever you are and it's certainly better down here than up north! The skies around Stapleford are very busy, which is perfect for learning, if you can learn to fly there with its inclemant weather and busy skies I personally think you could fly anywhere! Well that's what I'm banking on!


As for jobs after your training! well how long is a piece of string? How good is your flying? But they do seem to get the results and certainly in my time there people have got jobs....

I think the posts, on here speaks for them self! you try and find a bad report for Stapleford on here, I bet you can't! enough said I think.

[skelly2005]

Went down for a look around the Stapleford flying centre a few days ago, and may i say i was most impressed. I am going to go and do the modular course with them as it has always been a dream of mine to become a pilot. I would much appreciate it if somebody could give me some advice on what they think of the flying school itself. I would also like to know what the Class 1 medical consists of, i.e do i need to get myself to the gym for example. And what options does somebody with a fATPL have at the end of training. Is it an idea to become an instructor and hour build. And I know everybody always says do not self fund a type rating but this would give me an advantage over somebody who has a fATPL with no type rating. As much information as possible would be much appreciated.

[newbie008]

getting more and more recognition. Good place to go, not quite up there with oxford in terms of rep but soon will be im sure and cheap in comparison too. As for jobs ive been researching too, nothings guaranteed! The only hope ive got - not that ive got a fatpl - is i know some people who are pilots with airlines. Most look for 500 hrs + on type, but the industry is getting better. As for medical just do a search on google for caa and im sure you'll manage to find out whats involved

[SJG1]

I fly at SFC and they are a very professional bunch. The atmosphere is friendly, they all go out of their way to help and they have that personal touch.
I am about to start my ATPL and I'm sliding towards doing it with SFC as opposed to Oxford or other larger schools.
In regards to the class 1, go onto google and put in class 1 medical. It will list the CAA site and that gives you all the information. Don't be put off by the prices they are old. The medical costs £302. It only increases if you need further tests done.

[sam34]

Hi!

Just a little question :

I am looking for the word wich means "murrissement" in french, is it "maturing" in english?
It is when we have to get 150 hours after the PPL for starting the course CPL.

many thanks!

sam, frenchi

[Send Clowns]

Usually called "hour building". Maturing seems an unlikely prospect for a pilot :p

[too_sleepy]

Hi
Does anyone have any expereince building hours around the Stapleford area? I'm heading over in a few weeks and am a couple of hours short of 150.
What are the chances of me getting 20 hours a week done? Slim I think.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Callsign Kilo]

Hey Too Sleepy

I have just left SFC after completing my PPL, Night, IMC and around 35 P1 hours (including my 300mn CPL QXC). Im currently in the US doing some more P1 before starting my ATPLs...and to be honest if I could have done it all my time building out of Stapleford I would have. Everything is second to none, the people, the airspace, the atmosphere...everthing! Im not trying to blow smoke up their ass, I just really enjoyed my time there and cannot wait to return in December.

As for getting the time in, well its all weather dependent! My IMC helped, along with a copy of Flyer, Pilot and Todays Pilot Magazines (Free Landing fees every month). Also if you get a chance and have a little extra cash, try and get a check out on their single engine DA40D - its the muts nuts! The only other thing I would say is avoid Elstree in any time building flight - I got a pretty cold reception there, and Im not the only person to have said that!

[sam34]

do you know if we can staying in the accommodation at Stapleford while some days after the course ? It is the time to find an other accomodation for example...

[AreYouForReal]

OK, can someone please tell me if stapleford is actually a flying club, or it is a serious commerical training centre?

The reason i ask this is because there seems to be no definition between people who are coming every few weeks for a few hours circuit bashing, and people that are paying £30,000 to get a career and a (f)atpl. Would it not make more sense to, in principle, operate the commercial side as a seperate more proffesional outfit as this will be the world the students will be moving into.

Aswell as this, there also seems to be no structure to the hour building that you do there. It seems to me you could spend 100 knocking about in the circiut, write anything into your log book, and no one will ever know. Would it not seem logical if they are trying to get you to a high standard that is required by an airline and more importantly pass your cpl / IR in minimum hours, they would monitor your progress and how you are flying, and at least have maybe 40 of the 100 hours set aside for pre-planned routes by instructors that are more challenging and include land aways.

Please dont get me wrong, i have heard that the INSTRUCTION IS 1st RATE!! so please dont get me wrong, i just want to know that if stapleford want to be in the leagues of OAT, Jerez, and Cabair, (all intergrated, but like SFC, ALL have very close links with major airlines), then maybe a uniform or trousers and a shirt at least wouldnt go astray?

Can anyone who is there, or has any ideas about this please give me your thoughts.:confused:

[littco]

Stapleford is a very well run flying center with an equally well run and organised commerical center. I get your point that it may not look as proffesional as say OAT or Cabair from the outside but it is certainly from the inside.

The lack of uniforms, ties and knee high socks doesn't make it any less of a school, in the same way as not wearing a tie to church makes you any less of a catholic.

I think you have to realise is that Stapleford, isn't about all the pretence and attitude that may be percieved with OAT and CABAIR its all about the flying and making you the best you can.

I'm probably completely out of order here and this is only my opinion but I get the impression OAT treat you like children/teenagers ( in the fact they tell you what time to get up, eat breakfast, goto lunch, do your homework and when you can visit your parents so you can get more money off them ! ) and can vouch for the fact Stapleford treat you like adults.

Also once you have finished your training at Stapleford you will always be welcome back and you can always have a cup of coffee there, where as OAT once you leave you're just another satistic to them!

As for the hour buildings, well I haven't started yet so can't really comment..but if you need someone to hold your hand all the way through the 100 hours then Stapleford isn't for you! The Instructors are more than willing to help out and guide you if you need but it's upto you to make those decisions.

You decide..

[smith]

Personally I think structured hourbuilding built into the package would be better, if you don't know the area you may inadvertantly choose routes that are not challenging, experienced instructors could set challenges for you eg MATZ penetration etc. Just a thought.

Can anyone tell me if the professional traning (CPL/ME/IR) is done Mon-Fri or does training continue on the weekends too?

[littco]

7 days a week, tests included

[Boingy]

I think the idea of building hours "under the guidance of an instructor" isn't actually pusing you and developing your skills. Yes by all means make suggestions of places to go to but the emphasis has got to be on you. You're the Captain, you're building hours with the intent of one day Captaining an airliner.

The hour building has got to be you developing yourself as Captain and furthering your experiences and scaring yourself when you get into the sticky situations where you go "oh crap.." ... .. . .. .

[smith]

Boing

Wasn't really suggesting hours building under guidance of instructor, instructor could suggest various qx's each getting more challenging, you could after all plan your own routes and miss out on some challenges and end up "boring proverbial holes in the sky". Human nature dictates that we generally find the easiest way out, by being set challenges I think it would make the hour building a far more productive experience. But hey, I am not disagreeing with your method, if it works/worked for you cool, I just feel that I would need a little prodding or my QX's would probably become a little unimaginative.

[CapCon]

Hi All,

As I said before, I'm currently flying through my hour building block at SFC. I think the great thing about Stapleford is its positioning:

Relatively clear airspace to the SE,
More complicated to the South (Gatwick, Southampton)
MATZ experience to the NE (Wattisham, Coltishall etc)
Complicated to the NW (Stanstead, Luton etc)

As you can see, there's airspace for any level of competence within the area. I got my PPL at an airfield in NW Kent so I know the South East area pretty well. So when I moved to SFC I began to fly North to start building up some MATZ experience.

Towards the beginning of the block I asked an instructor where to fly and he pretty much said what I have written above... If your not that experienced then fly down to the SE. As you develop start pushing yourself to plan more challenging flights.

I agree with Boingy in that the emphasis is on yourself to push yourself and develop your skills. Training for the PPL was the time for being told when and where to go. I think now's the time to develop those decision making skills that will be vital to the commercial world.

And where better to train than Stapleford? :ok:

Cheers,

CapCon

[damicod]

Hi All

I have a PPL and 110 hrs. I am going to start my ATPL Modular course this September.
I have wittled the schools (for various reasons) down to either STPLEFORD FLIGHT CENTRE or COVENTRY ATLANTIC.
Does anyone have any experience of these schools and how well you achieve Airline selection afterwards

rgds
damicod

[captwannabe]

There are scholarships offered to PPL holders with Atlantic Flight Training Coventry in conjunction with Air Atlantique/Atlantic Airlines. They will pay for the full cost of your training if you are accepted. :ok:

[FougaMagister]

True - but one thing to bear in mind is that Atlantique sponsorships also involve a lot of work on a daily basis, be it in Operations, at Atlantic Flight Training, ramping/cleaning/refuelling/ferrying planes etc.

While this makes the cadets (or "Fuglies") well-rounded professionals, it's not for everyone because it's bl....y hard work and the days and weeks can be long. Forget about getting most week-ends off for instance.

Other than that, it's actually a good way to train people (quite close to how it would be done in the military); the selection is obviously quite hard because the Fuglies are top guys (and consistently achieve first time passes).

I have been through AFT (while not sponsored) for CPL/IR and I'm happy to recommend them. I would also advise you to head to CVT and visit the FTO; they will be happy to answer whatever questions you may have and you will be able to see for yourself the whole setup - and the planes; they have 2 (soon 3) Diamon TwinStars for the last part of the CPL and the IR, and will soon have 3 DiamondStars for CPL (with glass cockpit, AFDS, single lever, FADEC, etc.)

They are also soon to be a Flybe training partner, so I would think that could open doors...

A top outfit :ok:

Cheers :cool:

[damicod]

ta very much for the info.

[mcgoo]

I don't know whether it's just me but I phoned AFT to enquire about their course and I wanted to do an hours flying in a warrior and have a look around the school and I was fobbed off to the flying school around the corner, seemed a bizarre way of treating somebody who was about to spend £20,000 with them.

[Varun]

Any more info/reviews?

:)

[Damienmk]

There has been a few questions asked on this thread regarding SFC's position as a flying club or serious commercial training outfit. I trained at SFC, recently gained my fATPL and can say without a doubt, SFC is a very, very good place to learn.

If you want to pay a fortune to "look like a pilot" in your smart pants and tie, then this is not the place for you. But just because you're not wearing a uniform doesn't mean the quality of the tuition you receive isn't good.

Colin Dobny, the Head of Training is a very straight talking guy. He won't massage your ego when giving you feedback, he'll just tell you how your flight went and where you need to improve. He has a lot of contacts in the airlines (Not just Astreaus), and if you impress him, word will travel in your favour, believe me.

By contrast, a friend of mine who went to one of the "other" establishments where you wear a nice uniform and shiny shoes found the whole atmosphere "more of a production line". He paid twice the amount I paid for exactly the same peices of paper I have, and exactly the same employment opportunities.

The atmoshere at SFC is superb. You arrive as an individual and leave not only with a first rate CPL ME IR, but as a member of an extended family. I recently went back to SFC for the annual dinner dance and it was like going to a family re-union. I had a great time and will continue to return to SFC now and then to see everyone

I'm NOT an employee of SFC. I'm just a great believer in getting value for money. Why pay a fortune when there's a cheaper option that affords you exactly the same opportunity as those "other" schools?

[sicky]

I had a look on their site, and for the price at some other schools you can get your FATPL, with accommodation and a type rating, pretty much lol.

Not that i'm saying, other schools charge £60k, so go and spend £60k here and get more things done. That would be silly ;)

[Varun]

Hi, quick question. The ab-initio fATPL, the part theory part at London Met, where did you find accomodation? According to London Met you are not eligable for the halls of residence.

[Chocks_Away]

Hi, based on the excellent reviews of SFC im considering going there. However i was unclear if the course included multi crew training? If not where did people carry out there MCC training?

Also is the course classed as Modular or Integrated?

Ta

[Eddie_Crane]

I've heard MCC with PARC Aviation for some. But correct, no MCC at SFC.

Course is Modular (if you're referring to their 0-ATPL course)

[Chocks_Away]

But if you do the course fulltime why is it not recognised as an integrated course?

Also where are Parc based?

Ta

[Callsign Kilo]

Parc are based in Dublin, many of the guys who I have trained with at Stapleford went there to do their MCC training. They said they were first class. They use the 737-200 Sim, however I do think they operate the 737-300 and A320 as well

[planeshipcar]

Did they do there Type rating there with Ryanair. I'm going to train there this summer and just wondering whether anyone goes to Astraues for MCC &37 or to Parc becuase there is a chance with Ryan,

would really appreciate a PM etc.

[Callsign Kilo]

Check your PMs Planeshipcar

[pilotsearch]

I would presumably go there and do my training next year and wonder exact what planeshipcar asked about.

Pm is fine.

[smith]

Doing a modular course full time is not considered as being an integrated course!

[AreYouForReal]

I have no doubts that the training is first rate, and i have never questioned this, but what i was going for is that fact that people do tend to spend alot of time doing something rather unproductive durring hours building.
Another thing i also look at is, if it makes no difference what school you go to and the piece of paper you get at the end of it, why do the so called 'other' schools have a higher airline employment rate for students? All of these places make you wear a uniform, teach you how to perform in interviews, and structure your hours building. I'm guessing that leaving stapleford you have found a job and are training with an airliner at the moment?

[AreYouForReal]

But if you do the course fulltime why is it not recognised as an integrated course?

Also where are Parc based?

Ta
The difference between an intergrated and full time is fairly simple. All training has to be done in house by the schools instructors. OAT, Cabair, Jerez, and i think now there is one more, they all do the ATPL theory. This is why you will find the amazing CTC is not actually an intergrated scheme. It is Ab-Initio because they put their guys through Bristol. Stapleford dont, they advise going to London met, although this is not set in stone as far as i know, so you can do it anywhere you want even if you are doing the Zero to Hero.
As for accomodation in london, have a look at local estate agents. They do 6 month contracts with 2 months notice = 8 months in a property, which is near enough perfect for any time you spend there.

[Callsign Kilo]

...why all this fuss about structured hour building???

Do we need our training organisations to structure hour building for us?

As potential airline pilots about to embark on an expensive CPL course we should:-
A). Have enough info on what skills are required for a CPL and to what standards these skills are tested
B). From this be able to have enough savy to work how we can structure our own hour building while still having the autonomy to decide which way and how we want to do it in order to keep things enjoyable!

I think showing that you have the ability to decide what way is best to structure your own hour building and then displaying your developed abilites to your CPL instructor goes a lot further than someone who had to be given a list of instructions. Where's the fun in that anyway?

[scroggs]

Actually, I totally disagree. You neither have the knowledge nor experience to structure your hour building effectively, and for too many people it becomes a case of just boring holes in the sky. Whether you learn anything or not is left to chance. That is totally inappropriate for what is supposed to be professional training. It is one of the major reasons why integrated courses (plus CTC) are preferred by some airlines, and why the MCL has been initiated.

If you want to just go and fly round and round looking at the view, stop at a PPL and spend the rest of the money enjoying yourself!

Scroggs

[captwannabe]

I have to agree with scroggs on this one. After a PPL, you won't have the knowledge to build hours contructively on your own. You will pick up bad habits, and you will be at risk. Those hours just after PPL are known as "The Death Zone". Do constructive flying to get your hours up, maybe add a night rating and an IMC to your licence. Instructors and airlines, etc., do NOT want to train or employ unstructured hour builders because bad habits picked up can be so difficult to erradicate.

[Callsign Kilo]

I'm sorry Scroggs, but I think we have our wires crossed here

By having enough info to structure our own hour building I relate to taking information from CPL instructors, examiners and successful CPL/IR students who have a wealth of experience. This combined with the mass of info available in books, magazines and on the net should be able to provide the 'responsible' and the 'conscientious' with enough amo to put together their own plan of attack.

I accept that some people benefit from structures while I also accept that some people just burn holes in the sky, however I think credit is due to those that put together their own plan from taking a wide range of info from the people that count. I think it shows an ability to make a structured decision on their own and helps people learn a lot more quickly that if something doesnt work out then it is largely down to themselves.

Therefore in my opinion those who structure their own hour building and witness the rewards in the end should deserve more credit.

[scroggs]

You may be one of the responsible ones - in fact, I'm sure most are - but that doesn't alter the fact that a large proportion of your 'training' is left up to you, rather than to those who have the experience and knowledge to guide you, and that is not right.

That said, the vast majority of airline recruiters don't give a damn what you did in your hour-building phase; they just want to know you have the licence! It's only when talking hypothetically about what they'd like you to have under your belt before you come to them that they get exercised about the ATPL syllabus.

Scroggs

[littco]

Out of interest what Structure do the Intergrated courses have in the their Hour building? Does an Instructor sit down, with each Pupil brief him on what he wants him to do for that flight. What he has to achieve and what is expected of him. Do they then, de brief them? ask them how the flight went etc. How do they know the student actually did what was asked of him as he wouldn't have been in the plane for the flight.

I personally think that there is a failing in the Hour building for the simple reason that there is no structure. It is the only part of becoming getting your Fatpl that is left to chance and the integraty of the student. There is nothing to say a student doesn't bounce around the circuit for 95 hours, you would hope he'll great at landing a C152 but other skills would be totally lacking. This would obviously be highlighted when he does his CPL and probably take him longer to complete.

In my mind the CAA should really have some say in what should/needs to be achieved, their only stipulation is a 300mile Xcountry flight and I can see why airlines take issue with this andtherefore prefer Intregrated students.

Having said all this, If the individual isn't prepared to take responsibilty for his/her training and development while doing their hour building then I don't think they are of a suitable mind set to progress to the CPL stage anyway.


If the MCL solves this, great..

[smith]

Littco

If it were not for forums like these and for information gained from other ATPL holders, how the hell would you know what to do in your hour building towards CPL?

For example we all know that for CPL level, accurate flying is a prerequisite to passing the flight test. If however no-one ever told you this and you never had read the forums here would you know that you must practice accurate flying? Although this is a minor example it shows that we need at least some structure to our hour building as we would not know or learn the skills needed without some outside input.

Personally I would like an experienced instructor to guide and set tasks and trips for me to accomplish. No matter how good I think I was at flying, I might miss out or not practice a certain skill well enough to be able to reproduce it on a regular basis. This is why a structured hour building scheme would suit me personally.

If however you have great confidence in your own flying skills and ability, and know exctly what is required of you, then there is no need for instructor input.

Personally I prefer the former.

[Flying Lion]

I think the thing you will find in Staplefords favour is although they do not hold your hand every step of the way they will do a cross channel check out prior to your hours building with a senior or commercial instructor who will make use of this flight to assess & give pointers on weak areas & what to concentrate on whilst flying around. You are allowed to take aircraft where you like without the restriction of returning to base each night and you are actively encouraged to go tour France or the low countries in an attempt to develop your flying & confidence. Half way through hours building it is again recommended a dual flight with commercial instructor is undertaken to ensure that no nasty habits are developing & further advice is given on what needs attention prior to CPL course. If a night rating is required this too is scheduled during hours building giving further guidance if needed. As has been said earlier in this thread students are not just a number at Stapleford so an instructor knows if you are on a commercial licence course and will treat you accordingly. It must be working reasonably well as they have had a 100% first series pass rate on CPL since 2002

[biminiflyer]

flying lion

sorry but that 100% stat is not true i was there since 2002 and guys on my course did not pass cpl first time also regarding what Dobney tells you about contacts in the airline business take it with a inch of salt i know for a fact he is not too popular with ryanair put it this way the head of training at ryanair wouldnt take a phone call from him

just trying to give a heads up this is alot of money you guys are about to spend would hate to see you spend money influenced by statements that are hard too back up

bf:ok:

[Callsign Kilo]

As an SFC student I would agree with Flying Lion, the organisation does pride itself in its CPL pass rate. Whether this is measured from 2002, I don't know, but what I do know is that in the past few years SFC has maintained a 100% stage 1 CPL pass rate, whether this was first time pass or first time pass after a partial, the stage 1 rate has been maintained

As for the Head of Training, his job is not to provide you with contacts. He does not even promote that he has contacts, however I know that with those who have impressed he has helped along the way.

[Flying Lion]

Biminiflyer

Read what I wrote, first series pass. I know both Colin Dobney & Annabel Winter well & they can certainly verify that statistic.

I will also say that your comments re the relationship with Ryanair surprises me. I know for a fact that it is made clear to any prospective student that NOBODY can guarantee an airline job, that said there is a steady stream of ex Stapleford FOs coming into Ryanair. One of the senior training captains from STN put his son through the 0-fATPL course at stapleford and the LTN base captains son is going through the course at the moment. There are many students sent to stapleford by DUB training captains who are involved with the MCC at PARC as they are impressed by the standard of graduates.

There is probably a stronger link with BOND/Astraeus because of the tie up with the B737 course but there are a number of guys there on a 757 course with a job at the end of it (providing they dont screw up on course) and they certainly are there only through the efforts of Mr Dobney.

[Dicky Birded]

i know for a fact he is not too popular with ryanair put it this way the head of training at ryanair wouldnt take a phone call from him
bf:ok:
biminiflyer,
This would seem to be strange, as SFC state that Colin Dobney still flies occasionally for Ryanair and they show the Ryanir logo on their website.
DB.

[biminiflyer]

well i can tell you he dosent fly for themhas not done for a few years he used to when they had the 200's but left after a disagreement with head of training went to astraeus got NG rated with them flew for a while as a capt then packed it in too busy with sfc and other things

[Varun]

Has anyone stayed the the accomodation there? If so what is it like?

Cheers

[Andy_20]

Did anyone else come to the open day at stapleford on the 29th April? I was just wondering what they thought of it...? i thought Stapleford itself looks fantastic and a great place to learn to fly. I do have one reservation though and that was with the Astraeus Type rating, i am still not sure whether we should pay for our own type ratings or not. Nigel did make a convincing lecture on how its probably in our best interests that we did... whats your thoughts?

[kennyboy106]

Hey,
Yeah thought that stapleford looked really good. Nice set up. Got The feeling that things were a little more personal at stapleford. Going to be having a look at some other places, but overall very impressed. Not sure about the astreaus scheme. Think if i was going to buy a type rating i'd like at least some kind of promise of a job. Like ryanair for example.
Just about to start ATPL's and so confused at where to go. LMU also seemed quite good. Not heard anything bad from there yet !

[Dicky Birded]

Has anyone stayed the the accomodation there? If so what is it like?

Cheers


Haven't stayed there, but the pictures on their site look ok, and £10 a night seems very good value.

[Callsign Kilo]

You are getting a lot for a tenner a night at SFC if you are in the White House (6 room house on airfield with all amenities). The other accomodation is actually within the main building beside reception. Rooms are slightly smaller and you will be awake at 8am every morning when the staff get in! However it is comfortable, as well as being right beside the internet access and plannig room! There is a small kitchen, tv room and two bathrooms - all in all quite good.

When I left a temporary static home was purchased to house 3 additional people. It will be placed beside the White House. I say temporary because I think the plan is to convert existing buildings on the airfield into accomodation once plannig permission is granted. I think!!!

[planeshipcar]

Hey guys,

I was just lookin through the Stapleford Take off Magazine and noticed there was no mention of CPL students at their award ceremony. Is there a graduation/ award ceremony for CPL/IRs? I know its not a vitally important question - ,

cheers,

planey

[AreYouForReal]

Hey guys,

I was just lookin through the Stapleford Take off Magazine and noticed there was no mention of CPL students at their award ceremony. Is there a graduation/ award ceremony for CPL/IRs? I know its not a vitally important question - ,

cheers,

planey

Apparently not. Why would you want to celebrate getting your full commercial pilots licence, that would be silly!!
It is only a graduation for the ppl people, which to mean seems alittle odd. It was the first one they have done i a while aswell by all accounts, but if you do go for ppl graduation, be reasured that you get a pikey pair of wings that are made of material, so therefore are no good to man nor beast, although they would look good on your swimming shorts next to your red, yellow and green swimming badges, and a certificate that most of the instructors didnt even sign for there students. So all in a great event.
It would be good though to get a small pair of silver wings or something you can wear with bride on your tests and as a tie clip on interviews. Most american and south african flying schools give those away. But to be fair to stapleford, at least they do that for their students, and it is a black tie event, some schools dont even give you a certificate, just a handshake. I know from experience!!

[andy_13]

Hi.
I am in the process of researching places to do my ATPL. I have been reading some of the post here and Stapleford Flight Centre seems like a very good option. My question is, how easy is it to get a place there? Is it one of those "this place looks really good but i'll never get in" kind of places?
I will not be starting my training for a couple of years as I have to finish my degree first :{ but I thought there is no harm in doing some research now. I may do a PPL while still at uni if I have the money so would I be better doing that at my local school or doing it at Stapleford one summer?
Thanks for any comments :)
Andy S

[too_sleepy]

Hi Andy 13
Best bet is to check a schools reputation closer to your course commencement. It's one of these industries that can change schools overnight. I've had good and bad experiences with Stapleford, right now they wouldn't turn you down but whether you'd get any hours done is another question.

[Varun]

I have to agree with too sleepy, Stapleford seem to be biting off more than they can chew at the moment and I have had a bad experience with them.

I have since chosen to go to another Flight School and the response from my new choice has been great, I only wish I had gone to them first!

[andy_13]

Hi.
too_sleepy and Varun thanks for the replys. :)

I guess as you say things can/will change a lot before I eventually get to start my training. As I said I don't want to have my heart set on going to one school and then find out that its very unlikely i will get in. I'd rather know it was hard to get into in the first place then I can have a few backups as well,this would make sence anyway I suppose. :} I will obviously apply for the CTC wings training but this definitely falls into the "VERY unlikely to get into" catagory. But you never know! :ok:
I may also look into similar schools to Stapleford in OZ and NZ as I have heard that their training standars are very good in general, cheaper than UK and both countries are amazing! If anybody knows any good schools in OZ and NZ I would be pleased to hear about them so I can get doing a bit of research.

Cheers

Andy S

[skelly2005]

Hi everybody, ive just had my start date back from London Met for my ATPL theory and exams. Im then off to do my ATPL(f) at Stapleford Flight school. So anybody else starting next year at london met. I also would like to know what the current rate for my Class 1 medical is and how long it takes to do? Anybody had experiences about flying from Stapleford, any info would be appreciated.

[AreYouForReal]

I have to agree with too sleepy, Stapleford seem to be biting off more than they can chew at the moment and I have had a bad experience with them.

I have since chosen to go to another Flight School and the response from my new choice has been great, I only wish I had gone to them first!

I completely agree with the fact that stapleford have bitten off more then they can chew. Emma Drakeford has left and a chap called Brain Pepercorn is now sharing her job resposibilities, which is no mean task, but everyone i have spoken to says he is doing more then an amazing job.
I can say though that they are taking more and more people on for cpl and IR, with it looking like over 16 people doing IR at one time, and there is only 1 dimond sim. From what i can gather, you'll be doing well to be getting one sim slot a day, and as 35 of the 50 hours is done in the sim, the maths doesnt quite add up to completing the IR course in 5-6 weeks as advertised
I have also heard of people moaning alittle with the number of cpl instructors, as there doesnt seem to be enough. All in, more people then they have enough instructors for, but let me just add, I have never heard a bad word said about the standard of training, and the instructors, just the efficiency of the running.
Look around at other places if u are in a rush, but if u want the added security of possibley the best CPL IR pass rate in the country, stapleford seems to be the place.

[flightbabe79]

Hi everyone,,,

Just been browsing at flight training centres and came across Stapleford Flying School...
Has anyone had any experience of them or know why their zero to frozen atpl is so cheap...well cheaper!
Any info would be great!

x

[dobbers]

Whilst I would normally let people use this forum for what it is a "rumour network" I feel the time has come to put down a few facts as it seems from some of the above that there are some who wouldn't let a fact spoil a good storey!

Here goes in no particular order,

Yes Emma Drakeford did leave the company, it was decided that the role was too important to take 'just anyone' on to replace her and so despite interviewing many people, most who had some but not all the qualities required, it has taken until now to find a replacement. Lisa Green is the new course co-ordinator & will be the first point of contact. Whilst we were filling the post it was the case that the role was shared by myself, Brian & the operations manager.

With regard to CPL/IR training, we are extremely busy but we have been commercial training for over 40 years so believe it or not we do know a bit about scheduling students/instructors/aircraft/simulators. One CPL instructor is soon to leave but 2 more are finishing training. We have trained up a further 4 IR instructors in the last 2 months & have 2 new MEP instructors.The simulators are available from 0600 until 2000 and please bear in mind the devices are FNPT2s ie flight navigation & procedural trainers. Therefore both the AL200 & AL200DA42 sims are available for basic IR training we have had good results with students that start on the generic sim & transfer to the specific DA42 sim later. Remember that we train for an airline career NOT just to pass the test.

On the same thread , we have found the best method of instruction is to actually fly 1 sim or aircraft session per day & backseat another 1 or 2. We actively discourage students from doing 2 flights a day because the second slot generally is wasted because the student is tired & hasn't digested what was learnt on the first sortie. I'm sorry but we are not & will never be a 'sausage factory' pumping out people who learn a CAA test centres routes, we put in more than that & our present pass rate (which I can substantiate) is over 90% 1st series pass rate & mid 60% at first attempt underline that fact.

As a company we never never sell our courses on 'jobs at the end' marketing as some who should know better do. I can again substantiate that there are 30+ airlines who have taken Stapleford students & instructors over the last few years so the myth that only integrated course graduates will get jet jobs is a total nonsense. We have seen a large take up by Ryanair from our courses this year, primaraly because of the standard of student they recieve from us. I do have contact from those guys in recruitment at Ryanair but I dont chase them rather they contact me for personal references. I certainly dont know where the story above re me contacting the HOT at Ryan comes from, it is simply not true. Apart from Ryanair we have 3 guys who recently finished the frozen ATPL with us walked into Astraeus & completed the B757 type rating and are currently completing line training before going on line.So anything is possible!

Finally let me add to the thread above. if you are in a desperate rush to do a CPL/IR you will not get a place with us, unless you are already booked into our schedule, until late summer & later still if you require accommodation.

Good luck to all of you doing your training either at Stapleford or any other provider.

[planeshipcar]

I would just like to say how much I appreciate the last post. I am definately a next stapleford student.

I know you can not guarantee any jobs, but I am curious as to what the current market is like. Are Astaeus still offering 'if the type rating goes well then your in' like the 757 guys and is Ryanair looking like it will remain on the look out for the next few months?

I am also curious on when the instrument rating is complete if you give career advice as to what route is best for the pilot ie, where the pilot does his MCC, jobs and possibly the move to Astareus. Also have many people now taken the Astraeus route?

Once again I realize that you don't guarantee to anyone, however one can appreciate that by seeing how the market is now and what passed students are going on to do one can make a rough judgement,

Cheers,

Planey

[Callsign Kilo]

planeshipcar,

The Bond TR scheme is a TR scheme only, it does not guarantee a job with Astraeus. The 757 guys have been in the right place at the right time. Speaking as a Stapleford student, these guys were first class trainees, which likely led to the opportunity arising. Obviously, Astraeus looks at the performance of indivduals on their TR courses for potential employees, however if there ain't any positions there won't be any job offers. You take the risk of funding your own TR!

[SJG1]

As a Stapleford student, I’m more than happy with the level of training given. Yes they are extremely busy which says something for the quality of training and I’m not naive enough to believe that quantity of students must mean good quality instruction. As the above mail said, they are definitely not a sausage factory.

Most of the instructors bend over backwards to get you in the air or on the sim. If you are serious about your training then the instructors will look after you and groom you towards becoming a high quality pilot. From the outset, if you are starting as a PPL to go onto CPL/IR, you will receive the training geared towards you becoming a successful airline pilot.

There are slackers and non-committed who frequently fail to turn up for a slot. That slot is then lost. An instructor is left without a student and their time could have been used with someone else. These students tend not to get priority and instructors know who is and who isn’t committed to the training. What would these students be like working for an airline if they cannot be bothered to turn up for training at this stage in their chosen career?

In every training establishment you will always get people who praise and those who condemn. I have had experience of other schools who are very much sausage factories and whilst you may get the same licence, you also have to question in detail if you feel you have the experience and confidence behind it. Don’t be put off by the small country airfield impression, if you are serious about your training, you won’t be disappointed.

[balhambob]

Hi

Am looking to do a No Hours to frozen ATPL course. Am 30 years old and have saved 60k from current career to help realise this dream.

Have condidered the integrated v Modular argument and come to the conclusion that Integrated would be better for someone of my mature years so I can get into a position where I can market myself ASAP.

The decision I now face is where do I train? Would like to be based in the UK and I reckon I have 3 oprion

1) Oxford Aviation - 65k ish
2) Cabair - 55k ish
3) Stapleford - 35k (plus option of 25k for Astraeus with 100h on type B737)

As I see it for the same price as Oxford I could so to Stapleford, get the same qualification and also get 100h on a B737!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So would I be mad to go to Oxford or Cabair?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Also has anyone been to Stapleford? Thoughts on the Astraeus Type rating (I know this wont guarentee a job but surely it will make you more marketable than if you came straight from OAT or Cabair with no Type hours)???

Staplefors also reckon 85% of Integrated Grads in 2005 now have a job - is this bull****!!!!?

Thanks

Rob

[Mercenary Pilot]

Stapleford isn't an integrated course.

[balhambob]

OK but isnt it essentially a number of small courses joined together - which is the same thing?

[Mercenary Pilot]

Essentially...yes, however Integrated courses are combined and are geared towards airline mentality (apparently). You should do a search on Integrated V's Modular it’s discussed regularly on PPRuNe and a cause of a lot of debate (and argument).

Have you looked at FTE in Jerez? Their integrated course has a better job placement success rate than one of the courses you have mentioned.

[balhambob]

I guess my point is:

If you can get the same licence from Satapleford plus 100h on B373 wouldnt this make you more marketable to an airline than someone fresh out of OAT or FTE?

[Mercenary Pilot]

Unfortunatly not :{

[balhambob]

I'm not sure I agree?

If I was an employer I would rather go for someone who had 100h on type rather than someone who did not!

Thats just my opinion. Would like to hear other peoples thoughts

[High Wing Drifter]

balhambob,
If I was an employer I would rather go for someone who had 100h on type rather than someone who did not!
You and I think along similar lines. Look past the word "integrated" and try to see what is really important and then realise what a joined up modular course at a single FTO amounts to pretty much the same thing. I don't believe for a minute and an employer would see the Stapleford course as inferior to the Oxford integrated course so long as you do all your training there and your student record shows good progress.

The only thing I would not assume is that 100 B737 hours equates to 100 B737 quality hours. I suspect some employers would be a little worried over the amount unlearning you might need to do to fit in with their ops standards. Just an off the cuff thought, dunno if it holds water.

[flyfish]

It’s a case of ‘you pays your money you takes your chance’.
Those that have completed the modular training with Stapleford and had success will of course speak positively about that route.
The same goes for Oxford, Cabair etc.
No one has a crystal ball, so all you can do is make an informed decision after investigating all possible avenues.
As for the specific advantages as I see them, at Stapleford you will come out at the end with the same licence as an integrated school but you will have a 737 rating and 100 hours on type.
The rating and 100 hours could be the advantage you need to get that all-important interview.
As for integrated, as you describe, there is no rating but people get interviews after recommendations from the schools and do get jobs.
I really don’t think anyone hand on heart will be able to give you an independent answer to your question. Like I said investigate investigate investigate, and make the decision as you see it working best for you.
I went modular, but that was because it fitted into my life a lot better than integrated, and it has worked for me. I have friends who went integrated and that worked for them.
If I were single with a wad of cash in my pocket I would opt for the integrated route.
If I was the above and 5 years younger I would be applying to the likes of CTC, which gives airline placement.
Good luck on your decision and your journey.
Flyfish

[ultimatepro63]

Also i believe that stapleford own the aifield out right so know landing charges or take off charges and because they dont have to pay parking fees the prices are lower. I Read somewhere on their site !

[balhambob]

Thanks for the advice Guys

I guess I need to make my decision (gonna be integrated) and go with it

I know its hard to get a job because we are all after the same thing!

i do believe that if you work hard, impress the right people, have your head screwed on and have the right attitude you will get to where you want to be.

I'm 30 and been watching the football tonight with a guy who did his CPL at 36 and is now RHS on a B373 so it is POSSIBLE!

Keep plugging away guys!

Ps - wheoever flys Sven back to Sweden - I commend you, just make sure you dony fly him back!

[WAG2006]

Hi Rob,

I started at SFC 2 years ago this August. I have just started line training on the 75 with Astraeus. I thoroughly recommend SFC as a TRAINING PROVIDER. It's a good time, there are plenty of jobs out there. SFC has been discussed at length on here so I won't go in to the whole debate.

If you need any further details on SFC send me a message. I and 2 other guys on my course are proof you can do zero to 250 hrs and get the job you want.

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Flew to Stapleford for the first time yesterday and I have to say with all the talk of the aerodrome being used for flight training for the airlines, I expected more and I was disappointed.

The ATC is well.... *rap! (being A/G) and there wasn't a general professional feel of the place compared to that of Shoreham (where I'm based).

I have been considering my places of future flight training and the inital impression isn't good but I'm sure it has it's plus points.

I felt sorry for all the folks in the club rooms and bars, sitting in those high temps yesterday of 30 + and no air conditioning!!!


What do other pilots think of this aerodrome that come from full ATC airfields such as Shoreham or Bournemouth?

Laterz

[High Wing Drifter]

I've been doing my IR from an uncontrolled airfield. I think it is a good and a bad thing.

Bad because you simply need more hours for transitioning, but FTOs at these places tend to charge less so it all evens out, but achieving minimum hours is more difficult because it obviously doesn't leave the same time to practice specific exam routes.

I suppose it could be a good thing because you get to experience IFR flying in both environments and get to fly more routes in an out of the airways to help make the experience more generic. I have heard and read comments from a small number of people that even though they have just passed their IR, they never did this or that basic stuff in training, just flew exams routes and so aren't too confident about using the IR in anger solo in a different part of the country.

I could be writing boulacks, but that's just an impression I've got.

[VC10L1011]

I thought i'd add my response to all this... I too am one of the lucky 757 guys, but again I don't want to get in to that.

Stapleford Flight Centre is quite simply the finest in UK flight training schools. It provides flight and ground training of the highest quality, delivered by instructors who want YOU to succeed!!

Stapleford took me from complete novice to fATPL in 18 months, enabled me to pass PPL,ATPL's, CPL, ME & IR first time and have a great time along the way.

I think it is important to add that this didn't come easily and required and awful lot of sacrifice and hard work from myself and I would warn those who see integrated training as some kind of ticket to a job to think again!!!

In conclusion I would say to those who want to come out of flight training feeling a sense of success and who want to be a competent, skilled and able pilot to chose SFC. I know this is how I felt and I am now very fortunate to be in the situation I am.

[Sky Wave]

The beauty of doing your IR at Bournemouth is that it has all of the facilities, right on your doorstep. If you’re struggling with NDB's, you can get several holds and approaches done in an hour. You will also find that most lessons will end in an exam profile. By that I mean, you will return to the airfield, for either a procedural or r/v instrument approach. A lot of times that approach will be to a go around, engine failure then r/v single engine approach, single engine go around and finally a bad weather circuit to land. Every time you fly from Bournemouth you are doing part of the exam profile. You will also find that you will cover most of the exam routes when you train at Bournemouth. Doing this is just common sense, and in no way reflects badly on the schools. I trained with Professional Air Training, and I was told by one of the Bournemouth examiners that of all the schools that they examine, PAT are consistently the best.

I’ve a friend who trained at Stapleford and the one major plus point is the DA42. However, transiting to Southend, whenever you want to do instrument approaches, and having to go to Cranfield for your test does take the edge off of it. I also believe that the DA42 makes things a little too easy, and having just completed CTC’s AQC on the 737, I have discovered that your IR flying skills need to be top notch to fly a 737, and the last thing you need is an easy ride at the training stage. One of the guys that failed the AQC did so because his twin engined instrument flying was not up to speed. If he’d of trained at PAT, I am sure he would have made it through the AQC and would be sitting in the hold pool with me. (He didn’t train at Stapleford either BTW.)

Hope I’ve been of some help.

[omnidirectional737]

When I did my IR at Stapleford the first 30 hours were in the Sim, so you flew all the possible exam routes from Cranfield many times over with out wasting any time taxing etc. Also ifyou need extra practice in a certain area you can repeat this over and over.

[VC10L1011]

Yes the DA42 is great and a joy to fly, but whats most important is the Basic and Advanced Instrument Skills you will learn at Stapleford. They train you not to just pass the test in the DA42 but to be able to apply the skills learnt in any aircraft, in my case the 757 which I had no problem transitioning to.

At the end of the day once you understand the theory behind each a hold is a hold, an ILS is an ILS and an NDB is an NDB regardless of what aircraft you fly.

[planeshipcar]

I am gutted and quite literally worried. After a year of everything going wrong I have just found out that loans are no longer available through Barclays for the Stapleford courses.

I am half way through my training and I am now going to be stuck until I can get some sort of help. I don't have mummy or daddy to help me and was relying on this. They only advertised these loans for three months and they've gone! what's happened?

Pissed off

[littco]

I wasn't even aware that they could sort out loans! likely to do with Barclays rather than Stapleford.

Have you tried Natwest , Think you can get a £25k loan unsecured through them.. Worth a try..

[Superpilot]

Bugger! was just about to submit my business plan. Only spoke to the lady at Barclays the other day!

[DUXBY]

Hi All,

Had a look at Stapleford Flight Centre the other day and was most impressed by their facilities.
Have seen threads slagging off other well known FTO's but only read positive things about Stapleford. Would grateful to hear from others who
have trained with them recently were you successful in gaining employment. They say that their reputation is growing with the airlines.

:cool:

[LAX]

DUXBY

Was there summer of 2004. Everyone there at that time now flying for various Lo Co's.:ok: :ok: :ok:

[balhambob]

Did you do the Astraeus Bond Thingy?

[unstable_aloft]

I went to Stapleford a few weeks ago to check it out. I'm sure its a very professional outfit, but for me I felt something wasn't quite right.

I went there just for an informal chat about CPL/IR training, yet rather than going for a tea or coffee together to discuss, I was sat in an office with the head of training, and it just felt as though I was in an interview. I also felt the head of training was rather arrogant, I got the vibe that I was just taking up his time.

Don't get me wrong, I've not done any training there. The above opinion is expressed purely on first imprssions. For me though, one of the most important things about an FTO is the "approachability" of the training staff, and I just didn't see that there.

--
Unstable_Aloft

[littco]

Unstable_aloft

That's a real shame, The main reason I choose stapleford was because of it's approachabilty and the way the made me feel welcome when I first visited. I guess you could have caught them on a busy day, but there is no excuse for making you feel that way, shame as on the whole they have been superb with me and I would be happy to recomend them to anyone..

If you weren't comfortable then you made the right decision to walk away. Good luck with the rest of your training.

[Kazakhstan]

Hi,

I am a recent graduate from Stapleford and I found their training and instructors to be very good. My hour building, CPL, ME, IR was done through Stapleford and I then went on to do my MCC at PARC Aviation in Dublin. My PPL was done at Shoreham where I am currently flying.

I did the CPL first and then went on to the ME and IR which is a natural progression as you start off flying a Warrior then progressing to the Arrow. The skills you learned during the PPL are improved such as PFL's and navigation and you get a good introduction to flying complex aircraft and the use of instruments. I had a good instructor who helped me through the CPL and he trained me to a higher standard than is needed to pass the CPL Test.

Then I progressed to the Seneca. Having flown a complex during the CPL helped.

The IR for me was the most enjoyable part of the training. The DA42 simulator is excellent and I found the transition to the aircraft virtually seamless just a few extra factors to contend with. Having flown the Seneca I can appreciate how much better it is to fly the Twin Star.
My instructors were very good and its thanks to their help and training, as well as a sh*t load of hard work, that I passed first time. Nearly everyone I know achieved a pass first time.

Having to fly to Southend is not a big deal it takes a couple of minutes to get there and before you know it you are being RADAR vectored for the ILS. Southend has a 3.5 degree approach and the NDB procedures are quite difficult to begin with. Flying approaches at Southend helped strengthen the skills I learned. I also had the opportunity to fly to Calais to do ILS, NDB approaches as well as a few holds. I paired up with another student at the start of the IR training and we shared the costs of the flight and I back seated all of his flights and most of his sim sessions giving me a clearer understanding of the procedures.
Again flying to Cranfield for the IR test was not a problem. Two students go together with an instructor to share costs and I had the opportunity to go there before my test to do a hold, and a single engine NDB, which helped me on the day, as I knew what to expect.

In Response to Sky Wave, the DA42 has FADEC and EFIS which takes SOME of the workload off the pilot so you can spend more time managing the flight and concentrating on the procedures. The DA42 operates like a 737, for example you use the throttles to set a % Load so for an ILS on a normal day you set around 60% Load. If you fly a 737-using %N1 then you set around 58% or 1.3 EPR if flying a classic. No manifold pressure or inches to worry about as well as mixture!! Also you can fly more accurately with EFIS. When receiving RADAR Vectors and instructions you can bug both your heading and altitude and use the systems in a similar way to a pilot using the MCP, (Mode Control Panel) on his/her 737.
After my IR I went to PARC Aviation to do my MCC on an Aer Lingus full motion 737-200 simulator, non-EFIS, and I flew for 20 hours without the use of the autopilot which was hard work. The DA42 did not have a negative affect on my flying and my aircraft handling was good throughout the simulator sessions. Having flown the DA42, I feel it helped me to fly the 737 sim effectively and being used to FADEC, I was well prepared and found setting up the 737 on a ILS similar to setting up the Twin Star on an ILS.

All the training I received through Stapleford and PARC has given me a good set of skills and experience, that I can now build upon and will help me to achieve my goals. I would like to thank Colin and the rest of the Stapleford team including Brian and Steve for their excellent training and help. I have recommended Stapleford to friends who will start their training in the near future.

All the best and good luck to those starting their training.

[PPL152]

despite all these positve comments about SFC, wot r the chances of getting a job after training at SFC? anyone who did or did not succeed in this area?

many thanks

[Callsign Kilo]

I was there doing a PPL, IMC and night rating; along with a little bit of hour building between mid Oct 2005 and February 2006 and know of a few guys who were completing their CPL/IR's in that time who landed jobs with Thomas Cook, Easyjet (via CTC after training was completed), Astraeus and Ryanair almost straight after they left! I'm sure there are more..

[PPL152]

don't know why but, I still prefer to fly Pipers rather than the modern stick-flown glass pit future-oriented diamonds....

that's why im still preferring FTE for example... apart that my home airline ,Air Malta, seems to like FTE..

[Callsign Kilo]

Like it or not, modern EFIS equiped twins like the DA42 is the way the world is moving (finally!) EFIS and the concept of flying with a 'stick' rather than a conventional column is nothing new, and it is about time the GA/Flight training world embraced the 21st century (or actually the 20th if you think about it!) I even think Piper have come into this line of thinking!!! :p

As for chosing a flight training organisation, chose one where you believe you will be happy and where you think you will prosper; thats why I chose Stapleford.

And if your dream is to fly for Air Malta, then you will be more than likely be flying an Airbus with ultra modern electronic displays and a stick rather than a column!!!

Good luck

[PPL152]

I agree with you Kilo, I'm in the process of trying to accept the new EFIS oriented cockpits...:-)

But, isn't stapleford not approved to do integrated courses? Only FTE, OAT and Cabair are approved for integrated, no? Stapleford seems great... can you also tell me how much it actually cost you there?

[balhambob]

Does anyone think Stapleford may have plans to get approved for Integrated Training?

[jayc004]

I agree with you Kilo, I'm in the process of trying to accept the new EFIS oriented cockpits...:-)
But, isn't stapleford not approved to do integrated courses? Only FTE, OAT and Cabair are approved for integrated, no? Stapleford seems great... can you also tell me how much it actually cost you there?

There are only a handful of places that do intergrated, and that is beacuse they do inhouse ATPL training. I think there is this new system coming out which is suppopsed to be a cross between intergrated and modular. Dont ask me how it works, but its some CAA thing, so we will see if it ever happens.
Full costs are on the website, i think zero to hero is about £29,000, but as someone who is almost finished here at stapleford, i can tell you, what ever you think it is going to cost, make sure you have AT LEAST 25-30% extra factored in. Realistically, around £33,000 for accomodation, test fees, landing fees, approach fees. Remember, durring your training you will have to pay at least £2000 in exam fees alone!!!:}

As for thinking that you are more likely to get a job if you do intergrated, to be totally honest, it seems to be more about where you do your MCC than anything else, and at the end of the day, a flying school doesn't get you an interview or a job.:ugh: how many attempts at passing skills tests, what your CV looks like, and most importantly, not making a total arse of yourself in an interview, thats going to get you a job. If you dont sell yourself, no one else will:)

[ruffino]

Hello all.

Sorry for another PPT thread!

Finally raised every single penny to embark on an intergrated course here in the UK. Going for my class 1 in a fortnight and have been advised by a pilot friend that i wont have any problems with it.
Trusting that goes to plan i should be knee deep by christmas.

After weeks of deliberation i have set my sights on Stapleford flight centre as opposed to OAT & FTE.

SFC offer all ratings here in The UK as well as the infamous 100 hours B737 line training.

Has anyone been on this course?
Any feedback?
Any alternative institutions?

Many thank you's

Ruffino :ok:

[EpsilonVaz]

I don't think Stapleford do Integrated, only Modular. I went to visit Stapleford but decided to go to Egnatia Aviation in Greece because the Aircraft there are newer and the weather is more reliable.

EpsilonVaz

[potkettleblack]

Ruffino in the nicest possible way YOU NEED to introduce yourself to the CAA website and check out who is and isn't approved and for what. Then download a copy of LASORS 2006 and read the relevant bits of that.

Think of it this way. Would you buy a house without a survey? Then when you have found out that Stapleford are not approved for integrated training then you can think further as to the pros and cons of going with them or elsewhere. Good luck.

[ruffino]

Firstly i'd like to thank those that have left comments and Pprune for providing an invaluble forum. The replies so far have shed new light on issues that i may have overlooked and I greatly appreciate your feedback.

So we've now established that SFC DOES NOT offer intergrated however i would still like feedback from anyone that has completed their MODULAR course at SFC.

So where do i go? Florida,Oxford, Jerez, Frankfurt or Thassos?

As you will imagine, the idea of spending close to £60k on life long ambition and ending up jobless is a very serious concern and with every FTO having its pro's and cons one can get lost in the jargon.


I will go back to the drawing board and research the avenues you have very kindly supplied.

In the meantime, if any of you wish to leave me a trail to follow i will be forever in debt to you.

I'll be in touch soon

nuff respect Pprune!

Ruff:D

[Mercenary Pilot]

Hi Ruff

Becoming a professional pilot is a very expensive business, so you need to be absolutely sure what you need and what suits YOU! Mistakes will ruin you financially. Try having a look HERE
(http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649) :ok:

[BillieBob]

ruffino - you can spend your money at a modular school and walk into a job the day that you graduate and you can attend an integrated course and never find a flying job. There are no guarantees in this industry, neither does it matter one jot whether you attend an integrated or modular course, nor whether you train in the UK or overseas.

All that matters is the quality of the training that is provided and your own ability. If the training, whether from an integrated or a modular training provider, is not up to the required standard or if you do not have the required ability (and not everybody does) then you will not succeed. However, if you make wise choices and you have what it takes, you will succeed in your ambition to be a professional pilot.

You must make your own decisions, based on your own research. Many of the responses you will receive here will be from training providers seeking to advance their own interests, others will be from people such as yourself who have committed to one or other path and are seeking to justify their decision. Remember that what is right for one individual can be quite wrong for another and treat any opinions advanced here with the deepest of suspicion.

[jayc004]

So we've now established that SFC DOES NOT offer intergrated however i would still like feedback from anyone that has completed their MODULAR course at SFC.

So where do i go? Florida,Oxford, Jerez, Frankfurt or Thassos?

As you will imagine, the idea of spending close to £60k on life long ambition and ending up jobless is a very serious concern and with every FTO having its pro's and cons one can get lost in the jargon.

Ruff:D

Ok,
I am about to finish here at Stapleford. I have gone from ppl all the way through to IR here.
I must first off all say how much i have enjoyed myself here. I've met some of my best mates here, and have been living with them in london and SFC for well over a year.
I have friends at FTE, OFT, and OAT at Oxford, and all of them are jeleaous of me for two reasons:-
1. That i have had the time of my life doing this, and not had to be tied down to a regualr class schedule and only being allowed to progress when the rest of my course are ready, (regardless of the pilots flying standards)
2. That i have completed all the training in less time, cheaper, and in more manageble chunks, at MY OWN PACE!!

Talking about the intergrated courses. Just because you have the money, doesnt mean you will pass the aptitudes to get in, and even if you do, they are alot more likely to take your money, and keep taking it.

OFT in Orlando is a big NO NO!!! If you are thinking of going to the states, doing FAA, and then converting to JAR when you get back to save yourself a few grand, you better make sure you are a REALLY good pilot.
I have seen 3 or 4 guys doing a conversion with a FAA ATP, and ALL OF THEM have had to do serveral hours just to convert their CPL, let alone the IR stuff, easly costing them several thousands of pounds. OFT is well known for not being all that great.

Jerez.......a very good intergrated course. My friend is on a scholorship out there and loves it, however, he has over 100 hours with the UAS and a (UK)ppl, and they insist on making him do a further 6 hours before he is allowed to do his "First solo". Definately where the smart money is though if you want to do intergrated.

OAT......over priced and not all that great. I went round there, and to be fair to them, if you are on the intergrated course, you will be treated very well. If you are modular, expect to be at the bottom of ever flying roster and list as intergrated always get priority. However, they do have a brilliant groundschool!!

And then it leaves stapleford. It may not be intergrated, but the reputation of the flying school far outways the flase rumour that modular students dont get jobs. Everyone i know who has done modular and intergrated suffer from the same problem. Unless you know someone in the industry, it boils down to have you got enough money to pay for the type rating, not who told how to hold wings level. If you have the licence in your hand, you must ALL be at the same level of profficiency......true or not??

As i have said before, the flying school doesnt get you a job, YOU DO!! The MCC is where this is more important, becuase this is where an airline is going to look as each airline has its prefered MCC training establishments. If you cant fly, and most importantly cant work with others, and you dont know how to present yourself in an interview, your not going to get a job.

[bonernow]

jayc004,

Whilst I agree with your comments regarding the relevance of where and with which training provider you do your MCC, I have to add to that comment.

If you use a training provider (For the MCC) whose Instructors are airline current/recent then you have gained an advantage where the "old boys" network is concerned. And that particular network is very important when looking for your first airline job.

But before that advantage can bear any fruit, you have to be able to fly. You may have great crew co-operation skills and attributes, but if you have a poor instrument scan/flying skills then these current/recent airline personnel will be very reticent to recommend you to their company.

I trained at SFC and finished my CPL/IR in January this year. Whilst on my MCC course (In February) I was "noticed" and by the end of May I had started work for one of Europe's major airlines.

The reason why I was "noticed" is because of the raw flying skills I learned from Julie, Steve, Mike and Colin at SFC.

The reason why I chose SFC above other schools is because of the FACT the modular route is in NO WAY a disadvantage when compared to the Integrated route.

Another benefit of modular over integrated is the cost. I am one of those "over 30 people" and as such to get a foot on the airline ladder I always knew I was going to have to pay for a type rating on the 737. However, having chosen SFC, carefully choosing my training provider for the MCC and not going the integrated route, I found that the money I spent, (Inclusive of 737 type rating) cost significantly less then an integrated course. And I am now in the right seat of a 737-800, being paid to fly.

As are many others who trained at SFC, several of them in the company I work for.

I'm not in any way profiting from SFC for recommending them. I merely submit this post to allow others to read about my experience (which was positive) and make the correct choice for themselves.

[balhambob]

I am one of those "over 30 people" and as such to get a foot on the airline ladder I always knew I was going to have to pay for a type rating on the 737.


As a 30 yr old wannabee I am interested to know why you though paying for a type rating was necessery. What age were you?

I have come heard other opinions saying being 30 should not be a problem.

Also have heard nothing but very positive things about Stapleford - It certainly sounds like it is worth a visit.

[Martin4]

So where did you do your MCC bonernow?

[bonernow]

balhambob, Martin4,

I'll try to answer both of your questions as fully as I can.

Martin4, I went to parc in Dublin for my MCC. There were several reasons for going there; ie, the course content and the fact it was a jet sim, the fact all the instructors are current/recent airline pilots, the network of contacts they have and the fact it came highly recommended from a personal friend who, not long after his course, got a job with my current employer.

balhambob,

With the greatest of respect, I'm not entirely sure who told you that being over 30 was not a problem, but in my experience, it certainly was. Even though from the getgo, having done my research (particularly the over 30 bit) I was always prepared and had budgeted for paying for a type rating.

A very well known European low cost carrier employed a friend of mine who was twenty four years of age. He trained at exactly the same schools as me, had roughly the same flying hours and pretty much the same flying experience. However, this particular airline wouldn't even talk to me because I was over thirty four years of age when I qualified. I was actually over thirty four by sixty days when I applied and initially it was a huge kick in the teeth.

Still, never liked the colour orange anyway!!

However, there are other carriers out there who don't look at just your age. They'll give you an assessment and look at you as a person, a pilot, evaluate you & give you a fair crack of the whip. If you pass, great, if you don't, then at least they've given you the coutesy of an opportunity. Not like some others out there.

However, in my experience, and I can honestly say, in the experince of a lot of my friends, having the will and ability to pay for a type rating, when over thirty certainly helps. I went to the BALPA job seekers conference and heard a speaker say "Being 30 means you should have 3000 hrs experience" or word to that effect. That spoke volumes to me.

Hope this helps

[aftab]

what are the chances of getting a jet job after graduating from stapleford?? is paying for a type without a job offer is a risky move? how hard is it to get a job with the likes of ryanair or easyjet if someone is willing to pay for a type. thanks

[rob152]

Hi everyone,

Ive been thinking recently about which school to go for to complete my training. I recently had an interview for the Thomas Cook/Oxford scheme and passed all the entry tests, this obviously gave me the opportunity to have a look around the school. Impressive but I'm not sure I buy all the corporate stuff. Searching around the internet and I come across Stapleford flight centre, now with finances being the biggest issue the price they are quoting caught my eye. I've looked into it and have only heard good opinions of them, the training structure seems well organised too. I know this thread has already come up so I do apologise but I wanted to see if anyone can offer me a little bit of advice. How does the zero to ATPL work? It says a full time course, is this modular or integrated? Any extra advice or opinions will be gratefully recieved.

Thanks fellow flyers

Rob

[jayc004]

what are the chances of getting a jet job after graduating from stapleford?? is paying for a type without a job offer is a risky move? how hard is it to get a job with the likes of ryanair or easyjet if someone is willing to pay for a type. thanks

Hi guys,
well i finished my MEP/IR at SFC in september. I then went on my MCC at Parc aviation in Ireland in the first week of October. I was offered an interview at East mids in 3rd week of October, and I now start my type rating with Ryanair on the 11th December....so 3 months from IR test to job seems pretty good to me.
Jobs are out there, you just have to find them. Dont expect one to come and land in your lap as you'll be there for a long time.

As for the chap wanting to know how Zero to Hero works. Its modular. PPL - Hours building - ATPLS, (anywhere you choose, but its recommended to go to London Met, and this is a good residential course as i did it) - CPL - MEP - IR. The whole lot from start to finish is done at your pace. If you want some weeks off, take some off, and then come back to it, or go from day one to complete without taking any time off. Its your call.

hope this helps everyone.

J

[sam34]

could you explain me few things please :

on the website of Stapleford, it is written this :

"IR:

85% first series pass rate and 60% at first attempt. "

I do not understand what is " first series pass rates, and first attempt".

why is it separate? for example just : IR => 85% pass rates, (it is all)



sam, frenchie

[littco]

Sam34.

I agree as it is a little confusing. In essence you are right 85% of the students pass their IR either 1st attempt or 1st attempt with a partial ( ie one section failed) which was passed on the retest.

The confusing bit is that the 15% that don't get a 1st series pass could all the 1st series passes with a partial that then failed the retest on the partial section!

Which ever way you look at it it's not bad, and most companies ( like CTC ) that specify a first time pass refer to a 1st series pass not 1st attempt.

[sam34]

ok, i understand ! thank you very much littco, you're helpfull.

[DuffyDuck]

Hey, i´m a little confused about the price of the package. Is ist right that ist cost ypou about 35k?
That were much cheaper than all of the other schools.
Could anyone please tell me how much it actually costs?
Is mcc and long range included in the package?

[potkettleblack]

Duffy - As with all things in life it depends on whether you are comparing apples with apples or not. You need to compare what is and isn't included when checking with other schools prices. Here are the usual sort of gotchas:-

- landing & approach fees (both home and away)
- fuel surcharges
- positioning for exams (if not based at a CAA centre or if the CAA man/woman doesn't come to you)
- are the hours quoted in minimum - how much are the hourly rates if you go over
- are CAA test fees included
- are there any other costs for materials eg: IR plates and enroute charts etc.

I am guessing that if they are so cheap then you are probably doing the CPL on a single complex aircraft and not a multi and possibly the IR will have the minimum amount of time in the actual aircraft. Just be careful when comparing the costs of Stapleford to a school which may give you more multi hours or even where you do the CPL in a multi. The best way I found when comparing schools was to make up a spreadsheet and compare the itemised costs on an hourly basis to see if you are getting as much bang for your buck.

For me multi time was important as well as ensuring that the IR was less stressful so I opted to stay on the multi all the way through and make my life easier when test day came around.

[sam34]

hello!

I am asking to all students which have passed IR at Stapleford, did you finish the training with minimum hours ? so did you really pay around 11000 £ ?

I am always worried about extra hours (for my budget :ugh: ), how many hours do we need in general if we go over the mnimum hours ? :bored:

thanks a lot.

[badboy raggamuffin]

Hi all,

can any one out there who has done their CPL and/ or IR with Stapleford tell me how long it took you to complete each part of the course. Were you doing it on a full time basis? Did you find the pace of the training frustrating?

Have been quoted 9 weeks for the IR which seems like rather a long time. I get the impression that get SFCs approach is to have a lot of students on their books at the same time, all competeing the course slowly due to lack of plane/ instructor availability, rather than to have a small number of students at any one time, getting their courses done quicker.
Does the training offered at stapleford take longer than it needs to, or could one complete the course quicker if they wanted?

Cheers, Badboy.

[planeshipcar]

I am also curious to this question and to how long Stapleford students average out compared to what is quoted,

cheers

[Bandit650]

Me 2. I work in central London, so one option is to do the CPL/MEIR @ Stapleford over half-days/evenings...although my pref is to do it full-time for the usual reasons.

[badboy raggamuffin]

Come on, there must be someone out there who can answer my question!

[littco]

I can't comment on the IR as haven't started it yet but with regards to CPL.

I started my CPL mid November and had pretty much done it all and ready for 170a in 3 weeks. However, the weather has been against me and and it's been another 3 weeks waiting for my 170A and now the test. Obviously this week has been a write off and with Christmas coming up puts it back further, but this is no-ones fault.. I can't complain and have pretty much had an instructor to myself for the course of the CPL and even when a plane went tech they still had plenty to cover.. Frustrating? not at all (Wx maybe...but you can't control that)

[rwhites]

Well its about 8weeks for you CPL, 1 Week for multi (but has been done in 2days) and 8-9weeks IR(full time). All weather dependant. but if you have done all your training with them you'll probably be able to do you CPL in 2-3 weeks(weather dependant again). oh and the seem to frown upon people doing conversions from foreign licences (FAA etc) 'they always go over hours' i have heard some instructors say.

[badboy raggamuffin]

R whites, have you actually done your CPL and IR with them?

You say 8 weeks for the CPL, 8 weeks for a 25 hr course? Is that figure a worst case scenario, taking into account bad weather?

Also, why should it make any difference whether you have done all your training with them? That part of your post doesnt make a lot of sense to be honest.

[wbryce]

quick question to the SFC guys,

The IR course on the DA42 says 15hrs DA42 time and 2 hours for test and 35Hrs SIM time...

Most IR courses give around 25hrs flying time....is 15hrs not a bit on the short side?

[badboy raggamuffin]

so how many hours a day do you get on the CPL and IR training. Only about 1 by the sound of it, that is not enough in my opinion.

[Gulf Julliet Papa]

Usually CPL / MEP you can get 2 flights a day (booked in 2 hour sesions) flights lasting 1 - 1.5 hours each.
IR usually 1 flight a day (again lasting 1.5 normally) with plenty of time to backseat...or revise...

Price wise £18800 bought me CPL (28hrs) MEP (minimum) IR (minimum) + accomidation for 3 months + approach fees

[rwhites]

Golf Juliet Papa is about right, same ish for me, but i don't think many people go over hours on the IR at Stapleford(except for canceled tests from weather etc).

[planeshipcar]

hi,

at a house part of a Jerez grad and noticed he had really nice certificates and graduation photos from graduating as a commercial pilot at Jerez.

I was wondering whether stapleford gave a graduating doo/ certificates out?

I get the impression some schools think this is a load of crap and others really importent.

[planeshipcar]

p.s i know they did something for ppl at their oscars but never heard of anything for cpl.

[jayc004]

Yeh, but what is "structured hours building"? What exactly are you looking for in your hours building. If an instructor tells u to fly a particular route solo, or if you pick it yourself, what is the difference?.
Hey guys. I have finished all my training, and went from zero to hero at stapleford. Im now half way through my B737-800 type rating.
I personally cant speak highly enough of stapleford. The training i had there was exellent, and as mentioned in my other posts for here, I know people at other training centres, and thier views of those places.
The level of training is exellent. I passed everything first time, and within hours, but bare in mind, the instructors and expecially CFI's wont put you forward for a test if you arent going to pass it. Thats as simple as it gets.
Hour building.....when i was there it wasnt structured, and i have spoken to various people there about that, as personally i thought that was the only thing that they could improve on.
Being a PPL, you may think that you should be left to do what you want. In some respects i agree with that, but in others very much disagree.
I was lucky enough to have know someone who is did a BA scholorship at oxford. He told me all the things that i would need to know for CPL and IR. Therefore i practiced these things.
What you want to be doing is every 10-20 ours, go up with an instructor just for half or a whole hour, and ask them to make sure you are not picking up any bad habbit. Do this early, because when U get onto the CPL, it gets alot more expensive bashing about in an arrow and making mistakes, then being in a C152 for 30mins with an instructor!!
No one is saying that structure means "Do this route and this one....never do anything yourself". Of course do the routes that you want to do, but make them difficult.

For example:-
Do a route completely visual that isnt feature crawling
Do a route around london using VOR clockwise
Then VOR anti-clockwise. (believe me, one is easier then the other)
Do a route using only ADF and NDB
(this is very very useful because all Ur IR will be using NDB, and on your CPL test, some of the examiners love NDB tracking)
Talk to the CPL students and find out what routes they are doing in CPL nav lessons, and do those, so you have abit of a heads up.

All these sorts of things are very useful, and believe me they help massively!!
I will tell you now form my experiences since leaving. Every place I have been regarding aviation, everyone knows Stapleford and comment on the standard of pilots coming from there. This is due to the amazing instruction, and especially Colin and his high standards. He knows what is required to not just pass the IR, but to breeze any course or sim selection that you go too. I have met some people at MCC that didnt even know how to do a hold. (Lesson No.2 of IR)
At SFC you will be the most prepared person out there. You will have the same piece of paper as everyone else, but the only difference is durring your training you had a good time, and a life!
Like is said about 3 hours ago when i started writting this. I cant speak highly enough of SFC. Its cheaper then everywhere else, its got one of the highest pass rates of ANY flying school, and the atmosphere is brilliant. I dont regret going there in any way shape or form. And if it wasnt for that flying school, i wouldnt be bashing about in an NG sim at the moment.
Good luck guys.....and most importantly, dont believe all the negative things on here. People that speak badly of places 9/10 times dont know what they are talking about. Spend the £50 it costs to go and check the flying school out yourself adn TALK TO THE STUDENTS!!! They have parted with their £30,000+ and are never going to lie.
Enjoy.