Pet Hate - "Go Ahead"

[VVS Laxman]

Rant switch on...

Recently I've been exposed to a sector where an expectation to get the star issued on frequency transfer is given. i.e. "VOZXXX Contanct centre XXX.XX, expect star clnc".

Why about 8 out of 10 times do pilots call and say "go ahead" after transfer. Yes, you are ready and I know that; it's SOP... it's just wasted words... Sometimes I'm not ready; the "Go ahead", kind of forces me into it or at least distracts me.

Perhaps we should revert to the other way; i.e. if you're not ready say "Centre QFAXXX, FLXXX, delay STAR CLNC" it would be a lot less wasted air time; and not distract me from other tasks, such as manipulating the FLOW Machine; or the FLOW; or any other ATC I'm talking to.

Remember about 20% of ATC task is talking on VHF; the majority of the rest is feeding the elephant or talking to someone else about feeding the elephant; ocassionally we get to plan too.

Rant switch off...

[fromwayback]

I have noticed over the last 12 months "go ahead" has been used and seems to be increasing in the Brissy sectors between Brisbane and Sydney for the STAR. I thought perhaps some overseas guys filtering back into Virgin/Jetstar used it O/S and as a habit used it here. Then others heard that and started copying the words. I agree, its use is redundant.. A little like saying "in cloud" on first contact with Approach controllers.

[The Messiah]

.....no it is not an O/S thing it is an Oz thing just like every other trivial piece of crap that gets discussed here.

O/S people tend to just get on with it, rather than fill forums complaining about faff like how in India they give your SID clearance with your line up clearance or how the Indonesians clear you below transition but never include the QNH etc etc.

[Desert Flower]

My pet hate? The words "roger that"! Why it is necessary to add "that" to "roger" I will never know. It's not just in aviation either, I hear it time & again in transmissions from emergency services.

DF.

[Capt. On Heat]

Mine would be "with you" when calling a different ATC. Unnecessary drivel, they know that or they wouldn't hear you!

[OpsNormal]

My pet hate? The words "roger that"! Why it is necessary to add "that" to "roger" I will never know. It's not just in aviation either, I hear it time & again in transmissions from emergency services.

DF.

Probably a throw back to the amount of American rubbish that pervades the TV in this day and age. Some of it is bound to rub-off into society.

It had to be someone's fault!?!!

[HEALY]

Common at YPPH at the moment

"I will call you back"

Thats from ATC

[Uncommon Sense]

Whats wrong with I will call you back? (I am assuming this is ATC - ATC comms)

[ThoughtCrime]

Good ones are:

"passing x thousand" in CTAF's and MBZ's - gee thats useful

ATC: "Alpha Bravo Charlie stand by"
ABC: "Standing by"

"Currently" or "Shortly"


- TC

'Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past'

[Capt Claret]

VVS Laxman

Guilty as charged, well, almost. I'll often call at the designated point and apend the call with "ready to copy".

Why? Because I've lost count of the number of times the transfer instruction has included "expect STAR clearance".

Then, when making the call as per the AIP, the response from ATS is, "STAR clearance available", which then requires a "go ahead".

From where I sit, it seems that it'd be sensible to proscribe the issuance of a STAR clearance at 150ish nm, so that pillots are ready to write it down, and ATCOs know we'll be ready to write it down, and they'll avoid reading it out, only to have a pillot say, "say again" once they've got the biro out.

[Cloud Cutter]

You shouldn't have to check that a pilot is ready before issuing a STAR or any other clearance. As soon as the relevant callsign is heard one should be ready to copy a clearance, there are very few excuses I can think of. Likewise, I don't give a controller a heads-up if I have a request (although some people seem to insist on clogging the airways), If the controller misses it for some reason (and they DO have numerous excuses as stated above) there's not much more airtime used in repeating it, as long as it's all done in a concise manor as it should be.

How long does it take to retrieve one's biro from one's top pocket? If you're chaging frequencies you will be ready to write something down anyway.

[OBNO]

I hate "This Time" - what drivel.

[polemic]

vvs, I agree it is annoying as hell but if your going to winge about that what about when you get a transfer than a star with no warning, no real prob as cloud cutter said but the jepps say....

[Transition Layer]

The other day we got handed over from one ML CTR bloke to the next, without the usual "expect STAR clearance" on the end.

Straight up we were issued the STAR clearance on first contact with the next controller. I didn't have the pen and paper ready but how hard is it to remember and read back "Rivet 8 arrival, runway 34L, FL370" or something of the like.

Its nice to get the "expect STAR clearance" so everyone tunes in and listens closely, but do you really need to say "go ahead"?

TL

[No Further Requirements]

As a controller who both issues STARs and says 'expect STAR clearance', I think it is a great way of reducing the RT we have to deal with. It is the best way to get around the fact that ATC must tell the aircraft that the STAR is available.

I don't care if the aircrew say "go ahead" or not on first contact. If they do, I launch straight into it. If they don't say it, I say "VOZ123, Melbourne Centre, STAR clearance NAREL 2 runway.......".

Cheers,

NFR.

[Dr Phil]

About a month ago, inbound to Perth in the afternoon/evening, we were issued with our STAR, when 1 of the "Big 2" airlines calls up to request direct tracking to Haigh ...... as they were running late!!! What the!!!!...

He was advised by ATC...'Negative... your number 5 in the sequence....follow the STAR...'

[Macrohard]

So how do you feel about an aircraft giving a position report without prior notice? Do you find yourself looking for a pen, putting down the coffee, and ignore the supervisor ranting over your shoulder.

'Bout the same as an unexpected star being delivered, putting down coffee, picking up flightplan, grabbing pen, stopping fllight attendant from yabbering - then I can listen and confirm without embarrassment. I'm fairly simple, but give me less distractions and I get better!

[Tankengine]

My pet hate:

Pilots and controllers who don't read the F%$%$*& AIP!!!!!!!!! and prefer to crap on here!

IT'S NOT THAT HARD!!:mad:

[Keg]

when 1 of the "Big 2" airlines calls up to request direct tracking to Haigh ...... as they were running late!!!

And the problem Phil? I'll often let ATC know that we're trying to make up time any way possible. It means that if they're trying to work out who to sequence first and they know that I'm running late that I may get the preference. If I'm number five then I suck it up and acknowledge that I won't be able to make up any time this time around. No harm in asking is there!

Additionally, the company will occasionally tell ATC what the preferred priority is for departures if the ramp is full and a bunch of a/c are trying to get away at the same time as often happens at the end of a T/S.

There are a lot of contributors to this thread being a lot more precious than QF drivers are often accused of being! :E

[complane]

All the f**kwits that jump onto someone when they ask a question that would be quite serious and relevant to them. However trivail it may seem to the rest All the "experts" jump on them from the peanut gallery. Probably someone who was once/is in the same boat as them but actually had the balls to post a thread, and ask for some help and advice.

[SM4 Pirate]

Dr Phil, from an ATC view point if one of the big 2 says we are running late; often you can swap them with a compnay bird at no expense to anyone else; just the first 'same company' in the sequence. As an ATC I'd still like to hear those types of statements, becuase sometimes there is something that can be done. More often than not the 'first' company bird will say 'p!ss off, we're late too"; so nothing changes.

A question is a question; keep asking them; but think about the content; such as after delay sequence vectoring or holding, don't ask for high speed; it's obviously not available, unless you were late leaving hold or I stuffed up the vector... If it's the later I'll be trying to get you high speed to make my sequence look good, or without a half gap.

[Hugh Jarse]

It means that if they're trying to work out who to sequence first and they know that I'm running late that I may get the preference.

Keg,
Your position in the sequence is decided long before you tell ATC you're running late:O

Besides, with MAESTRO, we're all running late. :}

[Keg]

lol. Very true Hugh. I must say that I've given up telling ATC that we're running behind over the last few weeks......it just goes without saying these days! :{

[karrank]

Gee, some people get angry about the most trivial things...

While we have this procedure of giving the "expect STAR" blurb it does have a couple of warts on it my area, so if somebody says "go ahead" I will launch into the STAR with a bit more gusto than if they don't. And those warts are:
:yuk: I have no idea whether the previous sector actually said the blurb or not, and I forget every-so-often.
:} a fair percentage of long haul flights call me and say they don't want a STAR yet due the other flight crew, erm, washing their hands or something. Or worse, tell me that after I've blarted out the STAR.
:= I don't always WANT to give the STAR on first contact, I may want to defer it for a higher priority task or wait to negotiate a more suitable runway or more advantageous transition (that I didn't think about untill the track started flashing).
:confused: I noticed YPAD using RWY 30 last week so stopped saying the blurb as I knew there was no STAR. A more literal minded controller took over and didn't like this plan, so started using the blurb again! Maybe he was right, they'd changed to 23 by the time I got back.

My only pet hate? Pet Hates.

If you have somebody sniffing your tail we will give you the high speed. If you don't we won't. If you ask, the worst that can happen is you get told "no" or you cop the delay you were going to get told about in a minute or two anyhow. We will have a number on our screen when a jet is 250NM out, and the brain diseased ATC tell it to the aircraft, causing rage (I assume) when it is changed 5 or 6 times until it really means something at top of descent. And then it can still change. Feel free to ask.
how do you feel about an aircraft giving a position report without prior notice? This was introduced so ATC unfamiliar with the new TAAAARTS system could minimise the "say again" phenomenon while they gained such familiarity. Such familiarity was gained by about JUN 2000, and its continuing existence is a slur on the professionalism of OZ ATC worse than anything the SMITHEAD has come up with, and should have been left in the 20th century it came from. Gee, maybe I'll try out a change on the new TRACKER.

My flying training is progressing nicely, but I won't have to make any position reports anytime soon. When I do there will be no warning call. It is REQUIRED, but in no way required.

[4SPOOLED]

Got to admit, when you hear other radio jibber and slang, sometimes it rubs off on you without even thinking....

But yeh, as has been said before, there is an AIP for a reason. Use the tools relevant to your trade and you won't have a problem.....:ok:

4s