OAT vs FTE

[jam123]

It seems to me that both OAT and FTE(Jerez) are very good integrated schools. However, most people talk very highly about oxford's APP. What are people's view on the difference between an OAT graduate and a FTE graduate as far as the airlines are concerned. Is OAT's APP much better than the FTE standard integrated course or are they pretty much the same???

By the way this is NOT an integrated/modular debate or any other FTO. It is purely between FTE integrated and OAT integrated.

thanks

Jam

[wbryce]

It will be very hard to get a non biast view on both schools! you will have ex Oxford students praise Oxford and ex FTE students praise FTE!

In my opinion, I would prefer FTE, mainly because I've still to read report from any former students and I like the idea of staying away from home and relaxing in the sun during days off!

[moggiee]

Not sure if OAT has a brothel just outside the gate - maybe that would swing it for you?

[wbryce]

yes....brought to you by easyGirls! :E

[jam123]

Brothel? right - FTE it is then !!! - only joking!

No seriously, i am so confused out of the two and am just wondering what other people's view is. To be honest i am leaning towards FTE because i think it offers better value for money, but people don't talk about FTE as they would OAT,CTC.

or is it just me??????

Jam

[chris2005]

I think a lot of people dont comment on FTE because they know very little about it (including myself).

From what I hear of OAT i understand that there groundschool instruction is fantastic and everyone gets good passes.

Also they seem to offer a good standard of training but can be a bit slow and unorganised when it comes to getting aircraft into the air (though I suspect this is not the case with every student - only the unlucky ones). This is probabliy due the student/aircraft ratio. They also have quite good emplynment statsitcs.

Like I said dont know much about FTE, although a friend who is considering them said they to also have very good employment statistics. Best to see if they do a seminar or something.

Chris

[wbryce]

Are OATs employment statistics based on an initial period after course completion? (i.e. first 6 months)

I would safely assume that almost everyone who gets a fATPL will be employed one way or another over any time period.

[wubalaj]

Best port of call for info about FTE is www.henrybevan.co.uk

He has just started a Type Rating with Thomsonfly with 8 others sponsored on the course that has recently graduated from the College. He has been very frank throughout on his website about the place and it gives a real feel for the place and what it is like out there.

How do I know?....I was on the course with him. The school is the only choice as far as I am concerned and I would not change a thing. Awesome training in all areas and great place to be.

W.

[monkeytribe]

How do FTE and OATS select students to be recommended to airlines?

What is the normal criteria they look for/require?

[chris2005]

Not sure when OAT's employment stats are from, they have a table of stats on their website. They do claim to have had 150 graduates employed this year but not sure how many graduates they churn out a year. It would be intresting to see how many are not employed!!

Ive heard OAT put forward some candadites for reccomendation to airlines based upon exams scores and reports (so i hear anyway). I suspect most of them just sent off 200 CV's and get lucky.

Anyone from OAT/FTE any comments on this?

[moggiee]

I'm ex-FTE staff and (despite having been made redundant at the time of the management buyout) I would say go there.

The experience of living and working in Spain will be good value - everyone should spend some time woring overseas at some time in their life because it DOES broaden your breadth of experiences. Although the working environment is semi-English, the rest of the area is very Spanish and as such will have a certain amount of educational value.

The cameraderie amongst the students will be excellent and the quality of instruction good, too.

[countonme]

Hi

Like Mogie(e) I am ex FTE instructor but unlike Mogie I am also ex Oxford. Having spent 4 years at each FTO they both have their pros and cons. Also they are BOTH very good schools. At the end of the day your employment chances are the same, whichever school you choose. You need to weigh up how you want to train and go to the school suits YOU.

Not much help really - only to say that whichever one you go to you are guarenteed to get excellent training.

countonme

[Crazypilot A]

FTE everytime...cheaper and i went there and got accepted into the BA ssp scheme....OAT is way to expensive when you put together all the cost of living and eating (a whopping 73-75k) .. although fte and oxford have put up there prices fte is still cheaper and better!

+Crazy A

[jam123]

Cheers guys,

the only reason why i asked was because people dont talk about FTE as they do OAT,CTC but by the sounds of it it seems that FTE is right up there with OAT:ok:

Jam

Countonme,

could you possibly expand into the pro\'s and con\'s for each school? that would help a lot

Thanks

Jam

[Blinkz]

Honestly you wil very rarely get an unbiased opinion. Everyone in this thread who has said FTE is better then OAT haven't been to OAT and vice versa. As has been said BOTH are excellent schools but with slight differences over each other. Personally I am at OAT and having a great time so far. I choose OAT over FTE for a cpl of reasons. Firstly OAT get all of the groundschool out the way first, FTE split it up with the flying, I would rather it this way. Personally I don't think the cost difference is so much that it should sway you either way. The main reason however that I chose OAT is that I would FAR rather spend 5 months in the US then 12 months in Spain.

Its all down to personal preference and what you think will suit you better. I personally thing that OAT probably have a slightly better name for themselves. I know a number of current pilots flying for a number of different airlines and I spoke to them about my training options and nearly all of them said OAT was the way to go.

[monkeytribe]

What are the negatives of training at FTE?

[wbryce]

the spanish girls rarely speak english! :E

[Groundloop]

Good reason to learn Spanish, then!

"Firstly OAT get all of the groundschool out the way first" - this is not the way that integrated courses were originally conceived. The idea of integrated was that flight training was "integrated" with the goundschool. Basically Oxford is now "modular" but at an integrated price!

[wbryce]

Isn't Spanish included in the M&B ATPL? :}

[Gaz B]

Jam, Have you considered integrated training at Cabair? It's cheaper than both OAT & FTE, has the advantage being based in the U.K. therefore you get exposed to U.K. R/T from the word go and it sandwiches its flying and grounschools in alternating 8 week blocks. It also has very modern (2003) Diamond Star DA-40 aircraft with full FADEC system. And it looks like they will very shortly be upgrading their twins to DA-42's with full EFIS.

[Blinkz]

OAT also do a JOC course in their APP as well as the FoF course.

[chock2chock]

Although there is a common argument thet OAT gets all of the groundschool out of the way first, so the pressure is somewhat reduced for the flying phase that is a complete assumption. Looking more carfully... From the course program/schedule that I recieved from FTE (also available from the website), it appears that the first wave of ground exams come round week 22 or thereabouts. At OAT you seem to be sitting the first 6 exams after just 15 weeks. Both Schools seem to get the worst ones out of the way first, but a difference in five weeks most certainly means that at OAT you are chugging away at great speed! :eek: From a nice website www.henrybevan.co.uk/flying, I get the feeling that the learning curve during the flying phase at FTE is a bit steep. I do prefer the thought of OAT's flying phase and their single engined CPL skills test as opposed to FTEs twin CPL. The JOC I hear is not quite necessary till you're ready to fly jets (and an irline pays it for you), and I am anting to believe that OAT re adding it for the "top-gun" factor--or the fact that you are able to go through such complex training and a successful JOC in such a short space of time. The extra curricular activities that OAT seem to have are sound quite naff anyway. I was thinking somewhere along the lines of getting some time inan a/c first, like a PPL or less, to at least get the WOW! factor out of the way, - then go for any of the two schools. The sensible option would be FTE (for the savings) and instead of a JOC get an FI rating. And that would be cheaper still! than OAT training. FTE is also closer to friends and family if you want to get out once in a while. Not an option during OATs USA training phase which is now 5 months.

[wbryce]

Chock2Chock,

The learning curve at any integrated school will most likely be steep! The period which you attend both Schools would probably be simular, maybe slightly longer at Oxford as sometimes you can wait a little bit more on an aircraft for your CPL/IR.

From the schools point of view, they want you to complete the course in the fastest possible time you can do it.

[Aviation kid]

Hello all,

Just thought i'd add my two pence worth! I'm currently at Jerez as a cadet with Thomson fly and am loving every minute of it! Not only is the training second to none (and yes i've also been to oxford and sat in a couple of classes) The people here and the experience are fantastic!

At the moment there are two courses of Thomson fly cadets (another due to arrive next week), two BACX courses, Gapan students and KLM students from holland! That in itself must prove something! Also we have had FLYBE here this week to finalise plans of taking a fixed amount of students from here each month!!! Aswell as all this, the school (as does Oxford) has very good relationships with numerous other airlines, especially BA.

Also, one of our flying instructors came here from the CAA. He told me that although some of oxfords facilities may be better, the standard of training here is far better. His words not mine!!

I think on the whole, both schools are pretty much similar. I'm confident if you put in the work, your more than likely to get the results regardless of school. BUT for me, it would be FTE anytime!!!!!

AK:ok:

[flying jocks]

GAZB,

If you thought that learning a course is worth doing because it is easy then go-ahead and choose a totally UK based FTO because the R/T communications will be easy. Experience shows that training in a more demanding environment often produces a better result. Of course, I am biased as I have been an instructor at FTE and previously at OAT, but don't take my word for it - look at the take up rate from the airlines.

[Crazypilot A]

Prices are going up to 93,800euros in Jan,

Current price 92000 = 63k

Next Years price = 64k

Where do you get 67k from?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Look. There is little of any substance to choose between the two schools in terms of quality of training or chance of getting a job from attending one or the other.

You can differentiate slightly on price. But by far the biggest issue is the fact that one is in Southern Spain. The could be either a real bonus or a real drawback depending on your cirumstances. I instructed there and saw that for some a year in the sunshine lounging by the pool was a real plus whereas for some being 1000 miles away from family, friends and girl/boyfriends turned into a real drag. The campus can begin to feel like a prison camp, you might not like the food and you probably won't have a car.

You are going to spend a stressful, memorable, important and life shaping year of your life at one of these places. Its important to get it right. I think you really have to get off your butt and visit both - there is only so much one can learn from brochures or from here.

Cheers

WWW

[Aviation kid]

Well put WWW, you hit the nail on the head!!

[Gaz B]

Flying Jock,
I think you have miss interpreted my post!
At no point did I mention "easy" and it was certainly not what I intended to imply.
Far from it infact, I'm simply saying that being exposed to U.K. R/T phraseology from the start (which we both know is in a completely different league from the Yanks) is probably a bit more appropriate.

[apron]

From my experience OAT has been a fantastic establishment.....organised and seeminly value for money.

I am very nearly finished my APP course and have has 2 offers of employment already....one from BA on their ssp and bmibaby on the b737.

I started 14 months ago and finish this week..........ON TIME IF NOT EARLY!!

I have had alot of time during the course for myself as well. I spent only 8 weeks in scottsdale for the cpl instead of the advertised 12-13 weeks and was offered to stay on for the duration if I wanted. First time and series passes on everything and a job to boot starting before xmas..............OAT EVERYTIME!!

[Storm_Surfer]

Hi Jam,

Feeling lost and clueless? I know how it feels, you've got a couple of big decisions ahead of you.

Like everyone says an OAT bod will go with OAT and a FTE bod will go FTE when choosing which is best.

I don't think there is much difference between the two. You've just got to go with what ever feels right for you. I personally felt OAT had the better name and reputation, so I chose Oxford. Speaking to various sources before hand, Oxford was always meantioned and recommended. As for any other schools I would stay well clear of, particularly one.

As for my time at Oxford so far. Overall its been brilliant. My class mates are all top guys and gals. The instructors and support staff are all very genuinely friendly and very experienced.

I'm half way through ground school. I'd like to say I'm enjoying it, but it is a lot of hard work, especially in your own time. If I had any negative points on the ground school (apart from the shear workload and Air Law), there would be two. As all the instructors come from non-teaching backgrounds their teaching styles all vary widely and it can be quite difficult to adjust from instructor to instructor, also their ability to teach ranges from excellent to not so good. Although I woulf rate most as very good. These are only minor points though, because if you look at my classes phase 1 results they are excellent. Out of 22, 1 guy failed two subjects (and English is not his first language), I think two guys got between 80 -85% average, three more got 86-89% and everyone else was 90% and over. So those results speak for themselves.

Anyway hope this helps, whoever you choose OAT or FTE I think it will be a good choice. Best of luck, maybe you'll be in my right hand seat one day :ok:

[RogerIrrelevant69]

Well I can't comment on OAT but I can on FTE (or baesystems as it was then). I loved the place. The totally focussed professionalism of both the ground school staff and the flight instruction staff was an inspiration.

Wherever you go, don't fool yourself into thinking it's all on a plate. I witnessed one or two youngsters sit back and expect groundschool exams to be passed with virtually no work from them. This cost them dearly in terms of time, money and in some cases respect & sympathy from fellow students and staff.

Never witnessed anyone sitting back for too long on the flying front (except for about 100 Algerian wasters who are long since gone). Everyone else (unless completely dim) realised every minute was on the meter and that meter ran expensive!

If you go to FTE, make sure you own transport to get out and about on time-off. It is a truely beautiful unspoilt part of Spain and well worth exploring. I had my rather splendid motorbike with me when I was there and I can honestly say I never enjoyed driving it more in my life than when I was there. The weather, the beaches, the mountains.... Also just going down the shops for an hour or two in Jerez was a welcome break.

On the down side, the long term relationship fatality rate was depressingly high for a lot of the students - probably about 50%. Luckily not mine. But that was probably because my partner spent 2 months living in El Puerto (now my favourite town in Spain - about 30k down the road from Jerez airport) and on top of that we saw each other about once a month. Not cheap for either of us, but it kept us together - and now married.

I remember when I choose Jerez over Oxford, there was an absolutely ferocious amount of bitching about Oxford from some people (ex-students, students doing modular and not integrated). I don't know if that is still going on. Not my territory. Also the integrated v. modular thing - depends what you want. Qualification at the end is the same. Maybe time taken to get there is different.

It's a big decision, good luck.

[jam123]

Thanks guy's for all your very important inputs.

It is a very tough decision and not one to be taken lightly. I think both are very very good schools but there are so many other factors to consider......distance being one of them. On one hand FTE could be an advantage as you will have no one to bother you hence it's head down all the way! on the other hand it can make you feel very homesick !

Anyway thanks everyone for their comments and please feel free to post further comments.


Jam

[DA FRENCH PILOT]

Hi everybody!

I'm very interested in FTE and i'd like to know whether anyone knows the length of a CPL-IR in that school for a modular training?


Thank you in advance for your answer!


Simon

[papluca]

how is the oxford modular cpl training at Arizona?
do you get same treatment as the integrated students or worse?
how long is usually completion time?

cheers