Importance of ATPL theory results? [Archive]

George Semel

14th Sep 2005, 03:40

Ask yourself this, are they going to put your grades on your pilot certificate or license? Before the freedom of information act, its one of those little unintended consaquences, you had to really study and study hard for the FAA written. A good grade was 80 you needed 70 to pass. Now most get mid 90's to 100 %. In the old days the saying was 70 was equal to 100. I understand that its a little different in Europe. You guys get to take 14 exams and spend a half a year in ground school, and its not cheap. Get the best grade you can, in the end it will not matter much, except for some HR non flying types. In all my years, what I got for grades on the faa exams never came up. On the other hand, the pre employment exams counted a lot. But not enough if you interview badly. When its all said and done, the only thing that counts is that ATP in you wallet, and 4000 hours in the Logbook, better if most of that 4000 hours is heavy jet, if that floats your boat.

scroggs

14th Sep 2005, 09:28

The marks you get in the ATPL exams do not appear in your licence, or on any other documentation that prospective employers get to see. If you are on an employment-linked course (CTC or similar), there may be competitive pressure to get the highest marks in your group and there may be some implied pressure from the school to get high marks, but in reality the airlines are interested in the fact that you have the licence and little more.

That's not to say that you shouldn't try your hardest to do the best you can, but it's emphatically not a disaster if you get 80% instead of 95%.

Scroggs

countonme

14th Sep 2005, 13:30

At the end of the day the scores are only important to one person - YOU. The career which you are about to embark on is not only about passing exams and flying tests, it's about having personal standards and 'doing better tomorrow what you did today'.

You might say it's a load of tosh, but IMHO that's what flying is about. Good luck anyhow.:D

Maude Charlee

14th Sep 2005, 19:33

If it was important, more airlines would ask for your grades in their application processes - few bother. Overall grades and numbers of attempts has had absolutely no correlation to the success or otherwise of the guys from my course, and that was in 2002 when there were more newbies than you could shake a stick at, and airlines went wild with their arbitrary requirements for the few jobs available.

That's not to say that you shouldn't make the effort - the discipline of studying is good for you - but don't get hung up on the outcome as long as you bag all 14. Flying grades and your ability to pay your way through your post-graduate training are way more important than your groundschool.

G-SP0T

14th Sep 2005, 20:59

i disagree. most airlines do see your results, they SHOULD be on your cv, many do not state it but require a certain mark - eg BA req 85%.

Put your self in the employers position, you get 1000 CV's for 5 jobs, how do u pick the best, obvious, you pick the person with the most qualifications, then narrow it down even more by seeing who out of these has the highest mark in the subjects.

I believe any one could pass the JAR exams at 75% with all the feedback tht is about, it takes knowledge AND UNDERSTANDING of the subject to get a pass mark in the 90's.

what you should be thinking of, is how can i make myself look better than the other guy up for this job, not can i make myself apear the same.

That said, i know of people who have got marks in the 90's and been turned down because they are not the write person. but like i said - anything to make yourself look that bit better.

good luck :ok:

CarbHeatIn

14th Sep 2005, 21:53

At the moment I think BA care more about how many thousand jet hours you have, not whether you got 83 or 86 in Human Performance Limitations.

ChocksAwayUK

14th Sep 2005, 21:59

I think he's referring to a very limited number (24?) of low-hours places that came up last year for integrated types and really just went to those who'd been sucessful in the now-defunct BA sponsorship but dropped post-9/11 (and continued self-funded anyway). A requirement was 85+.

south coast

14th Sep 2005, 22:39

g-spot...

quote:

I believe any one could pass the JAR exams at 75% with all the feedback tht is about, it takes knowledge AND UNDERSTANDING of the subject to get a pass mark in the 90's.

all it takes to pass in the 90's is to study the feedback questions a bit harder, thats all.

it's all exam technique with some knowledge and a lot of feedback question recognition, oh, the answer is B!

you dont use half the stuff anyway, so dont blow it out of proportion as to whether it has any relevance or bearing on what kind of pilot it is going to make you.

scroggs

15th Sep 2005, 11:27

by G-SPOT

i disagree. most airlines do see your results, they SHOULD be on your cv, many do not state it but require a certain mark - eg BA req 85%.

Remind me which airline's recruiting department you work for, Spotty?

Airlines do not see your exam results unless you choose to tell them. There is no reason to put your percentages on your CV. If an airline has paid for your training (which none do any more), or has offered you a job contingent on certain results (easyJet/CTC), they may be entitled to see your results. If you are a self-sponsored student, that is not the case.

I reiterate for the hard of hearing: you should do your best to get the highest mark you can, but a pass is a pass.

Scroggs

G-SP0T

15th Sep 2005, 12:58

you dont use half the stuff anyway, so dont blow it out of proportion as to whether it has any relevance or bearing on what kind of pilot it is going to make you.

at what point did i say any of it was usefull?

Remind me which airline's recruiting department you work for

i dont, although from my experience of running a business, you take dont bring in every applicant who has sent you a cv, you bring in the one with the best qualifications.

I think its important for people to realise that not every one can be a pilot, it takes a special kind of person, not the kind who enters into name calling on internet forums "spotty".

pipergirl

15th Sep 2005, 13:44

i dont, although from my experience of running a business, you take dont bring in every applicant who has sent you a cv, you bring in the one with the best qualifications

...i'd hate to work in your business...here's me thinking that the person with the best and most relevant experience should prevail
:confused:

I think its important for people to realise that not every one can be a pilot, it takes a special kind of person, not the kind who enters into name calling on internet forums "spotty".

granted, not everyone has the aptitude to be a pilot, just like others professions..but i feel there is a problem attitude amongst certain pilots that this profession is an elitist one, when in fact it is generally financial restrictions that force a lot of people not to follow their ambitions of flying.
You do not have to be special or have super human powers to be a pilot..just a lot of money and discipline for the hard slog during your training.

Now correct me if I'm wrong-
Scroggs has the following experience;
22 yrs RAF (C130), Virgin Atlantic B747, now A340....
now, oh wise one,any chance on filling us in on what your experience is?!?

Back on to the original debate-
In my experience, the airlines do NOT look at the grades achieved at ATPL level...that's why i always find it amusing when people rattle off this "pass average"razzamatazz...

G-SP0T

15th Sep 2005, 13:54

but would you not agree, even if just for the sake of motivation that someone should try and get the highest mark, and not try to 75% in fear of "wasting effort"

pipergirl

15th Sep 2005, 14:00

That's not what's being discussed.
Of course if you are entering into examinations of any sort, you try to do the best you can...just like anything in life, try to do your best.
Anyone going into ATPL examinations doing anything different is foolish.

and I was always told, anything above 75% is wasted effort!

I think you may be misunderstanding something-
I believe Kissmyqsquirrel(love that name....hehe) is referring to joke that a well known ATPL ground instructor used to make about wasted effort-he's not being serious.

gaypilote

15th Sep 2005, 14:29

quote:

"but i feel there is a problem attitude amongst certain pilots that this profession is an elitist one, when in fact it is generally financial restrictions that force a lot of people not to follow their ambitions of flying.
You do not have to be special or have super human powers to be a pilot..just a lot of money and discipline for the hard slog during your training"

Here here pipergirl, I believe anyone can get through the ATPLs with enough money, time, effort and money. Same goes for the flying side of training, its a skill, and a skill can be learnt, I get embarressed when I see guys/girls with 100 hrs in a Cessna 152 with a God complex :\ :ugh:

But on topic, the way I see it, a licence is a licence. Its like saying someone who got through the CPL in 25 hrs is better than someone who took 35 hrs. You need to look at the bigger picture, I've heard it said airlines ask 2 questions, 1)would i let my family fly with him/her, and 2)would i like to do a 9 hr leg with them.

Not so sure I'd like to sit and chat to some guy who has just come out of training with 95% av. and a God complex.

Sorry, still not found out how to 'quote' properly:confused:

Tallbloke

15th Sep 2005, 14:34

2 candidates identical in every way, except one has a 75% average and one has a 97% average. Which do you choose?

Now you have 300 candidates CVs on your desk. Of these 300 you need to select 6 for interview. What methods would you use? Hours, currency, age etc etc. All quantative factors. Agreed qualitative factors are also important and become increasingly important as you progress through the selection process, but to get a job first of all you need an interview.

Just my €0.02.

pipergirl

15th Sep 2005, 14:41

well, in my opinion, I would call the two identical candidates for interview and decide from that.
At the end of the day any joker could put "97% average"on their CV when they could have achieved just 75%.

Lee Frost

15th Sep 2005, 14:49

Don't listen to Pipergirl folks. I know for a fact that her exam prep technique is to hang around canal towpaths drinking cans of lager and laughing uproariously.

:}

LF

Martin1234

15th Sep 2005, 17:14

Use your time wisely but "over-studying" for the ATPL exams probably isn't an efficient way of improving your skills as a pilot. The best assessment you can get is "pass" which means that this is what you need to achieve.

If you are to look at the results first time passes should count for more. This says more about your ability to achieve a defined goal, with a reasonable margin.

For reasons stated earlier on this forum I couldn't transfer my exams from one country to another so I needed to re-take several of the exams I already passed. The first time I sat gen nav was with a result of 96%. More than a year later I was to re-take this exam and got 82%. I knew that I was most likely to pass the exam even without refreshing my memory very much. As long as I pass with a reasonable margin I rather spend my time reading up on things that might actually keep me alive.

G-SP0T

15th Sep 2005, 18:12

I would call the two identical candidates for interview and decide from that.

your having a laugh, surely you cant expect an airline to interview 300 people for 1 job!!! there going to bring in who looks better on paper.

pipergirl

15th Sep 2005, 19:25

No i'm not.
Sorry, when I said interview, I meant aptitude testing.
Before a candidate is called for interview they are aptitude tested, so that should give a clearer picture and help in the decision making.

A "pass average"is not a official statistic from the CAA and very hard to prove, as I said, any joker can put down on their CV they got a "100% pass average".

Don't listen to Pipergirl folks. I know for a fact that her exam prep technique is to hang around canal towpaths drinking cans of lager and laughing uproariously.

No, No, No, NOOOOOOOOOO(ala tom mallory)
:p

scroggs

16th Sep 2005, 06:21

by G-SPOT

i dont, although from my experience of running a business, you take dont bring in every applicant who has sent you a cv, you bring in the one with the best qualifications.

I think its important for people to realise that not every one can be a pilot, it takes a special kind of person, not the kind who enters into name calling on internet forums "spotty".

When airlines requires new pilots, they list among its requirements that applicants require either a 'frozen' ATPL (ie a CPL/IR with passes at ATPL ground subjects), or an ATPL (ie the above plus 1500 hours). They do not ask you to reveal your exam results but they do, through your holding the required licence, ask you to show you've passed the exams. Having the licence is all you need to do that.

Selection of candidates for interview is based on many things, and some of them can be a bit esoteric. Not having a licence (or any of the other basic requirements) would obviously exclude you automatically. For those pilots with no relevant experience, educational qualifications may come into play. However, ATPL exam results (other than a 'pass') generally do not. I can't say they never do, because someone will find an example of a company that once asked for them, but I have never heard of a company that does - and I've been in this business for some considerable time, as Pipergirl kindly pointed out. Now I feel old!

As for that 'special kind of person', G-SPOT (that better?), do you think you're one? Really? If you regard 'Spotty' as name-calling, I think you may have to work on your sensitivity issues!

Scroggs

Kengineer-130

16th Sep 2005, 06:48

Not having read much info about theese exams, as I am planning to do them next year after I get a PPL, are they all multi-choice exams as per the PPL's. or are they written??

IMHO you should always aim for 100%, not for anything like one-upmanship, or god complex etc etc, but the simple fact that knowing and UNDERSTANDING all aspects about a subject must be far better than scraping a 75% pass, with a few lucky guesses etc?? Like eveerything else in life, there is always somthing new left to learn about anything......... and thinking you know it all is the fastest way to a fall.

Megaton

16th Sep 2005, 07:13

Kengineer,

Aiming for 100% is obviously admirable but when you see the sheer volume of material you'll realise that passing all the exams at the first attempt is achievement enough. Furthermore, whilst there is much of value in the content, there is also a massive volume of detail which is simply not required from the modern commercial pilot. Can't remember the last time I used grid navigation or calculated transport wander!

Incidentally, I was an engineer in the RAF until a few months ago. Hopefully, you should find your service training and attitude useful if you pursue a career in commercial aviation.

G SXTY

16th Sep 2005, 08:49

I suspect that most of the people worrying about whether grades are important haven’t actually sat the exams yet. Once they have, they might appreciate just how much luck is involved in some of the results.

In the Comms subjects, there are so few questions that the difference between a very high score and a fail could be just 3 or 4 wrong answers. Yes you could quite easily hit 100%, but throw in a few random nasty questions and you could get 74%.

In Performance how many graph questions will there be? Are they simple calculations from some of the better produced graphs, or are they time-consuming ones from one of the many dodgy graphs in the CAP? How close is the answer spread? Does one obvious answer jump out, or are they all very close together, forcing you to guess a ‘three pointer’?

In General Nav how many plotting / calculation questions will there be, as opposed to simple ‘do I know the answer to this one?’ type questions? Too many calculation questions, and you risk running out of time, like many candidates in my exam.

Does your ‘lucky’ subject come up? In my Radio Nav exam, there were no less than 10 questions on GPS. Great if GPS is your thing (apart from the question with 2 correct answers):) but you’d be in trouble if you’d concentrated your revision on RNAV and the workings of DME.

In Law, learn 600 feedback questions and you’ll pass. Easier said than done, so say you manage to memorise 300 of them. How many of your 300 come up – enough to pass? General knowledge is not going to help you in law (unless you’re an ATCO). :rolleyes:

By the way, my favourite from the ‘random question generator’ was in Ops Procedures:
Question 1: “In Minimum Navigation Performance Specification (MNPS) airspace . . . blah blah blah . . .”
Question 2: “What does MNPS stand for?”

Obviously hard work and revision help, as does good feedback – together with coaching from the groundschool, it can help you spot a dodgy question a mile off – but an awful lot of it is down to the random nature of the questions. I was very lucky, I didn’t get any of the ‘horror-story’ exams you sometimes hear about, and I passed them all first time with good grades. However, I’m certain that on a different day, with a slightly different question mix, I’d have been borderline on some subjects, and would have failed others.

Honestly, in the ATPLS, a four leaf clover and lucky rabbit’s foot are as important as a wizzwheel and sharp pencil. Do your best, by all means aim for 100%, but it’s the pass that matters. Pass the exams, tick the box, move on.

Send Clowns

16th Sep 2005, 09:59

By the way the most successful of my students in his career so far lost all his passes after taking too long and failing one three times (affected by the FTO where I had started to teach him going bust, so not entirely his fault). He then failed the same subject another 3 times, finally getting through on the last attempt, albeit with a good grade (moral - if you need help, go to an instructor before resits!). His struggle to pass exams did him no harm.

To paraphrase a certain well-known airline recruitment manager, you get interviewed by pilots and all pilots hate groundschool!

0-8

16th Sep 2005, 10:08

I agree with most of the previous posters that you should do your utmost to achieve the best results you can - but your career is hardly going to stall if you don't get the results you want.

However I think the results may be more important the some posters acknowledge. It may not impress the Chief Pilot much but it's exactly the sort of thing that might impress his secretary or someone in the Human Resources department. It might just be one of the things that helps your CV get plucked from the sea of applications that the airlines receive.

Remember also that many self sponsored people have managed to get jobs through CTC's Wings ATP scheme. The application for this is not on their website at the moment but I'm almost certain that you have to include your ATPL pass rates on it. CTC's own cadets achieve a 91.2% average mark. So if you may not be viewed as favorably as you might like if you scrape through with a 77% average.

scroggs

16th Sep 2005, 10:24

It is perhaps pertinent to note that the people who think that exam marks are of great importance are currently students with little or no relevant experience, and those who counter that the fact of passing is far more important than the marks are currently engaged in professional aviation. Makes you think, perhaps?

Scroggs

pipergirl

16th Sep 2005, 14:27

well said...
:ok:

Maude Charlee

16th Sep 2005, 15:19

For those under the misapprehension that recruiters actually sit down and wade throught the hundreds of CVs they get each month, when you actually reach your first job, pop along to HR or the CP's office and watch how it's done.

When a vacancy comes up, hand reaches out, removes wad of CVs from top of 6 inch high pile, starts to contact as many as required for interview session. No contact first time, CV binned or returned to pile.

There may be some random screening, but your ATPL theory results are way down the list of what is important. Even those airlines who have a more structured recruitment process, and use outside agencies for screening, or have a large and unwieldy HR department (like BA), rarely ask for your results in their application forms. At one time or another, I think I've probably applied to all UK based recruiters, and I can only recall once ever having to list all my theory passes.

Reach your own conclusions.

Piltdown Man

16th Sep 2005, 15:34

Put in enough effort to get yourself a pass. But the problem is, as you don't know what the questions will be (now that would be nice!), how will you know what to leave out in your preparation so that you end up with 75%? Yes a "Pass" is the is the only thing you need to get a licence but score less than a "Pass" then 100% of ANY effort was wasted.

Martin1234

16th Sep 2005, 19:39

A tool like the excellent Bristol ATP online database will give you an idea of your ability to pass the exam. Note that on the Bristol database all questions are worth equally when marked. Also, take a look at the JAA specimen papers to which you can find with answers on the public Bristol forum. The first questions are normally just 1 markers while the last questions are more likely to be more than that.

I think that I know before entering the exam room if I quite likely will pass or very likely will pass an individual exam. Those I thought that I was quite likely to pass I got scores in the low 80's while those I was very likely to pass I got more than 90 percent.

It is not the end of the world if you get 74%. You only have to add another percent of knowledge till the next time you take the exam.

G-SP0T

16th Sep 2005, 20:17

pipar girl
Before a candidate is called for interview they are aptitude tested, so that should give a clearer picture and help in the decision making.

so much cheeper!!!

High Wing Drifter

16th Sep 2005, 20:25

and I was always told, anything above 75% is wasted effort!
Ah! The theory equivelent of the glide approach!

CPL_Ace

19th Sep 2005, 10:04

I took that OPs exam - I studied for about 10 - 12 hours a day (incl. Ground School) I focused a lot on OPs and walked out knowing I had passed. However, seeing questions like that made me feel positively cheated.
Yes there is a case suggesting that it's a waste of effort, this is an example of that. But ask yourself this:

Walking out of an exam that you know you need to pass, how will you feel knowing that you aimed for 100% and might possibly get there or there abouts (and at very least passed)?; compared to that wonderful "I need booze to get me through this" emptiness that you get when you realise that studying for just a pass might not have been enough and the next 10 days are going to be spent awake at 3am nursing the bruise left after hours of kicking yourself?

What is the point of selling/remortgaging your house, begging, borrowing (stealing?!) a huge (HUGE!) amount of money to do something half heartedly.

Mr E Pilot

20th Sep 2005, 18:04

Here, here to everyone on the side of the "yes you need good marks" debate. We all hate ground school. What a tedious journey that one is.

But if one's general attitude to life is: "I'll just scrape by with the bare minimum", then who in the hell would want to employ someone like that anyway.

If anyone has that attitude and wants to be a professional anything, let alone pilot, then I would suggest that they're aiming too high.

As for the argument that all it takes is money to succeed... then look at those who drop out who had the opportunity. One could argue that it only takes money to become a racing driver. But you still have to be the best to win, and to have a winners attitude.

Attaining a job that fulfils many peoples' dreams is a privilege. That's why many people log onto pprune just out of interest and because it is something they would love to be able to do. Pilots are amongst the luckiest individuals on the planet. It may not seem like that to pilots at times. But to those who look up at contrails and dream, they are.

So does anyone who believes that a mere pass is good enough deserve to win a job in an airline? It doesn't matter if you only have a 76% pass, but it is crucial that a determination to be the best you can is a predominant part of a pilots personality. A wing and a prayer attitude aint good enough when 200,000kgs of pax, fuel and composite follows you around at 35000ft.

That said, if you are on an integrated course, your results will help you when the schools recommend their graduates to the guys they supply. Yes, recruitment people prefer an easy life and will jump on a recommendation. Graduates with the best grades and first time IR passes get the best offers. But like all things in life, the more distant exams, are the less important they seem. Experience rules.

That's my twopenneth. Over and out.

powdermonkey

23rd Sep 2005, 06:09

Hi all
I am in the middle of the ATPL's with first set of exams in October.
I started off with wonderful ideals, thinking that I would not stop until I UNDERSTOOD EVERYTHING, and would not sit the exams until I KNEW EVERYTHING! That little dream faded a few weeks ago, I worked harder at this than anything I have ever done, but I have come to accept, regretfully that on my own and even with as much help online as I can get, I will not fully understand the inner workings of certain instruments, will never fully get all the law and ops procedure, certainly do not give a **** about how long an operator must keep the training records of his gnd staff, etc.etc. Now, all I want to do is pass. There is simply far too much to retain to be fully adept at all 14 subjects, and I know that when all is said and done, these exams will NOT make me the pilot I want and hope to be. It's sad, but true. If the JAA concentrated more on ATPL's becoming simply more than a barrier and made it a more practical exam, reducing the work load to something more manageable then a more realistic exam could be taken. At this stage, I would love my scores in the 90s but a pass will do. I have another 7 to do after this and would really like my life back as soon as possible.!

High Wing Drifter

23rd Sep 2005, 07:21

Powedermonkey,

It can feel a bit like that. My advice is don't develop subjective notions of what you think you know/don't know, just do the progress tests and if you get 75%+ then move on. Just make sure you have enough time to run through everything again before the brush-up course.

Fear not, the brush-up course will knock you into shape :ok:

I know that when all is said and done, these exams will NOT make me the pilot
Am I the only one in the world who thinks amongst the dross of the ATPLS, is plenty of essential knowledge?

TolTol

23rd Sep 2005, 09:15

Well said powdermonkey, your not alone on those thoughts:(

Oh, just noticed your from Dublin, guess I'll be seeing you in October;)

727Man

23rd Sep 2005, 09:32

Here! Here! Completely agree with scroggs, Ive been in the airline buisiness for 15+years never has a prospective employer asked for exam scores, only Licence, Medical and about you as a person! THAT SHOULD BE THE END OF THIS POST!!

scroggs

23rd Sep 2005, 10:22

But it won't be! Sometimes I feel I'm banging my head against a brick wall....

Scroggs

powdermonkey

23rd Sep 2005, 10:44

Hi TolTol
Will see you in Octobre. I am sooooooooo looking forward to these exams:{ :ugh: :yuk: :* :\

Flintstone

23rd Sep 2005, 17:16

Here's the exception that proves the rule.

Thomsonfly ask on their application form for your exam scores. They also ask for pass marks from secondary school.

Are they kidding? I can't remember what I had for breakfast let alone what I scored in Remedial Woodwork.

Too............much..........cosmic..............radiation.. .................uuuuunnnggghhhh!!

Evilbob

28th Sep 2005, 09:18

I think that this comes down to precisely what Scroggs and 727man have already tried to explain. IMO You will always get those who have to work exceptionally hard to achieve the bare minimums, the same as you will get the others who's effort is minimal to achieve the higher grades (and combinations thereof). Can you distinguish who's who just by looking at a set of results? I think not. This is why airlines (amongst other reasons) have interviews to discover a persons true personality.

To my way of thinking those who here who see fit to argue with the comments of our two seasoned proffesionals above, may need to look at there own personality. After all, they have the jobs and it will be people just like them on the otherside of the desk when we are going to interview.

As for the hours: well just ask the thousands of university graduates out of work or in jobs not befitting of their qualifications. Experience speaks volumes.

My conclusion: Give ground studies your all and achieve the best you can, but 75 is the number that matters. If the airlines wanted more they would surely ask.

G-SP0T

28th Sep 2005, 20:59

This is why airlines (amongst other reasons) have interviews to discover a persons true personality.

All research into interview techniques has shown that face to face interviews will give the least accurate reflection on a person, they also tend to be biased, wat if the guy giving the interview is having a bad day, or doesnt like ur face!

that said, its still the most popular technique, but some people are realiseing its limitations, ie the police, at no stage are you interviewed by a person its all group work etc.

scroggs

28th Sep 2005, 21:19

I have no idea whether your information is correct or not, but I don't know of any airline (or selective training organisation) that doesn't use the face-to-face interview as its primary selection tool. It's usually combined with some aptitude testing, possibly some examinations, maybe a group exercise or two, and often a sim check, but the interview will be the deciding factor. The main point of the interview is not to test your knowledge, or assess how you work with others, it's really to see if you're the kind of guy we could sit next to in a flight deck for 12 hours. And you can't establish a candidate's motivation from a group exercise.

I doubt we'll see things changing on that front any time soon.

Scroggs

Hobgoblin

28th Sep 2005, 21:52

Importance of the ATPL Theory test results to me is simply the fact that without them you will never have an ATPL.

As long as you have passed them you should have the barest minimum of knowledge that you are going to need so an airline can train you to fly their aeroplanes the way they want you to. I can't see the relevance the actual score would have to any employer, unless the exam actually asked you every possible question on every possible scenario. Anyone feel like writing 14 exams with 14 billion questions each?:{

My advice is make sure you pass the 14, fly as well as you can, impress everyone you can at the interview with what a super addition to the team you'll make, kiss backside if you have to, network as much as you can, pray, pray some more, beg, beg some more and never stop believing that you'll get there.

Stick to it and you will.

Good luck.

Alex Whittingham

29th Sep 2005, 07:21

My view in old age, is that, whatever you do, you should do it to the best of your ability. If at some future date someone gives you credit for your efforts that is a bonus, if they don't you at least know you did the best you could. Looking back at my youth I am ashamed at the number of times I did just enough to pass when I might have excelled.

Frank Furillo

29th Sep 2005, 10:49

Very well said Alex, hope everything is well at BGS. From an old student
FF

Martin1234

29th Sep 2005, 19:01

Do I smell that someone here doesn't want their pass rates to be lowered? :)

Alex Whittingham

29th Sep 2005, 20:42

Oh dear, the world is too cynical. That's the best advice I can give you.

scroggs

30th Sep 2005, 11:49

Alex is absolutely right, and Martin's cynicism is misplaced. As I have said repeatedly on this thread, you should aim for the best result you can get. Once you've got it (and the licence in your hand), don't worry too much about what airlines might think about individual exam results; you'll probably never have to reveal them.

Scroggs

mad_jock

30th Sep 2005, 12:07

To be honest i really don't think the exam marks between sittings are even comparable.

They are slung out of a computer and printed.

The difference between monthly sittings can be huge. When i did my instruments only 20% of the people where passing then 5 months later it was up to 70% (these numbers where given to me by my ground school).

So in one month you can be in the top 20% with a 75%.
And the next bottom 40% with the same mark.

And the chief pilots all know this as many of them had to sweat blood to get through the bloody things.

Which is why one or two companys might use them to get the number of applications down (but it will be HR not the ops side of things). But nobody really cares.

MJ