Training in Spain

[PPL152]

As for airlines frowning upon your "spanish" license thats a load of bolloc** - I've just applied with an airline and they found no problem with my license. Remember - its a JAA contracting state so uniformity is guaranteed and accepted throughout -

Can you tell us which airlines have/have not accepted you or anything related to you finding a job?

[smith]

Would buying a bicycle make it any easier to get about?

Also do you have to pay the repositioning costs of the aircraft from Malaga to Sevilla?

[PPL152]

aerodynamics sounds great... I wish they offer CPL as well... it will be at least 5 yrs since I'll start my training though :S

[smith]

Thanks Clay

Had a cheap flight lined up to go visit them tomorrow, just phoned them and got a message saying they were closed all week on holiday, guess it must be too warm for them. Do they close for siesta during the afternoon and does the sim training go on in the evening also?

Have you got your CPL now? Where did you do it?

I managed to find a flat in torremolinos via a room sharing website for E200 a month so quite pleased with that.

[geraldn]

I can't figure out what does FNPT II mean?

And I want to get this straight... I have a PPL, if I obtain an ME/IR, does it mean that I am automatically qualified for an SE/IR also? And what about CPL? How does it go about ME and SE?

To have your SEP rating (i presume it was done in malta along with your PPL) issued on your UK F-ATPL /CPL/IR-ME u will have to instruct the CAA in writing to transfer your SEP frrom your maltese licence onto the british one + it will cost you an extra 210STG.

Regarding the CPL i found it easier in the long run to do my CPL on a multi.

[papazulu]

can't figure out what does FNPT II mean?


Flight, Navigation and Procedure Trainer

II stands for "certificated for MCC (Multi Crew Coordination) Training

Bye

PZ :ok:

PS. Sure you don't want to listen to your mum & dad and pursuit a lawyer's career...? :E

[Helipilot1982]

Claycomm is spot on - finish the exams before worrying about the CPL and IR phases. You need the exams passed to do the latter stages of your training anyway.

[PilotWeb.org]

If you are going to pursue professional flight training, make sure you get a school who will truly give you your moneys worth and teach you the basics first. Try the site below for some suggestions on flight training. Dont get taken!!

Si vas a ir tras entrenamiento profesional, asegure de conseguir una escuela que te dará el dólar (o euro) completo por hora de instrucción, y además, enseñarte lo básico, bien fundado. Vea el sitio de abajo para sugerencias y que no te frieguen!

http://www.pilotweb.org (http://www.pilotweb.org/)

[BlueRobin]

I do a nice line in smelly socks that are far superior than that European muck :} Can I start advertising them on pprune also?

[OnRoute]

What is the level of education at Aerofan? I've read from a finnish board (www.fsnordic.net) that they have offered someone to just read a couple of books and this would cover the theory training requirements for FI rating. Does this reflect their overall quality or have things changed?

-OnRoute-

[Me-Uk]

Well, I have trained there recently (IR) and I must say that it was a very good set up.

There was one chap that was doing an FI course whilst I was in Madrid, and I don't know about reading "just" a couple of books, but I can say that he was at the school the whole day, in and out of classrooms and he even came and flew a couple of times with my instructor and I, as I think that they encourage FI students to go in as many flights as possible and get some first hand experience from behind.

I do know for certain that FI courses are only taught by senior instructors. I suppose that's fairly logical.

[girolat_b]

Just remeber : avoid Airmed.

They are not professional....:mad:


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www.mundoforo.com/pilots (http://www.mundoforo.com/pilots)

[smith]

Went out to Aerodynamics-Malaga on a recce last week. Eveerything looks great, new, air conditioned and very professional. Am heading out for ME/IR in Sept and being in southeren Spain, the weather is fab.

[metar]

For what it's worth - I did my PPL and CPL in the UK. Did my ME/IR in 3 weeks in Madrid at Aerofan. No problems with rating issues on my truly blue CAA license. Since done FI there too.

What I would say is this... some snobbery around at the moment about Spanish issued ratings (especially in Scotland?!). Probably fair up to a point as the examiners in Spain are more prone to listening to how the instructors perceive you before you go to test. Less ex-RAF egotism. :rolleyes:

In my MCC and more recent airways flying I've had no problem with my instrument flying (as you would hope), and think I can hold my own with the best of the UK-taught crowd. Same goes with instructing. Quietly confident that I can teach pretty well.

Not sure the airlines fancy those spanish issued ratings, but if you can find an interview and prove you're up to it then who cares! I'm going back for a renewal early next month. It probably IS easier to get the ratings there than here, and IS cheaper. My conclusion is that it's up the individual - you can probably pass quicker and with less "talent" in Spain. Up to you how good a pilot you want to be... Happy to answer individual questions via private message. Not biased, in a nice job, and will tell it how i see it (warts and all!).

[smith]

Thanks for your comments metar. FWIW most Scottish based airlines seem to have foreign based piolt's at the pointy end including Spanish. Admittedly these guys will not be your 250hr guys. You got me kinda worried now as I would like to do my me/ir in Spain mostly due to flying conditions.

Do the recruiters actually comment on your the fact that you have Spanish ratings when you are at interview?

Cheers

Smith

[metar]

No probs. I think I would agree that the Scottish regionals are taking on all sorts of strange folk rather than the 1000 hour instructors from local airfields (of which I am one). It doesn't massively bother me as I am happy instructing for the timebeing.

Weather in Spain is truly fantastic. Not sure I actually saw a cloud through my instrument training, but that's what panels are there for! Have more than made up for my IMC time since back in Blighty!

Feel free to message me if you want any specific questions answered.

[flyking]

:confused: Intend to do ME/IR in spain after completion of CPL and ATPL exams. Training with BGS at moment. Why are US flight training schools CAA approved for JAR/CPL JAR-FCL & Flying in Spain
and not Spain. Do I have to do CPL training in uk, bcause study & exams is UK based.
All flight training done for the issue of a licence (PPL or CPL), must be done in the same JAR country where the theoretical training and examinations have been done.

Flight training for additional ratings, i.e. IR, ME-IR, MEP, FI, CRI, A320 etc, can be done in any JAR member state. All new ratings will be inserted into the JAR licence by the "State of Licence Issue".

Spanish Air traffic controllers do like drinking coffee and tea, just like any other air traffic controller, but I think you'll find that it's very rare in Spain for a controller to deny you permission to fly a few approaches, even if you're in a PA28 or a C172. Obviously this might not be the case in large class 1 international airports such as Malaga, Palma or Alicante in summer, due to traffic.

RT in Spain is in either English or Spanish. RT in most countries is exactly the same... either English or the local language.

Hope that info. helps.

[BlueRobin]

Why are US flight training schools CAA approved for JAR/CPL

US schools were very popular with Integrated and latterly Modular training providers in supplying training to UK pilots partly because they could do so i) at a price cheaper price despite incurred travel and accommodation costs and ii) usually with better weather.

In such a market, the CAA had to extend its approval outside of UK borders. There are other countries on the approval list.

However the situation with the market post-2001 rather changed things around for the training market, as has the European JAR and now encompassing EASA jurisdiction.

One could argue that there ought to be a central European EASA approval system thus taking away another tier of CAA control over the flight crew licensing system. EASA-wide FCL should be up soon on EASA's agenda.



BR

P.S. A big hello to fellow pprooner and reader of Wannabes Liam T whom I met yesterday quite by coincidence at my flying club.

[Coffin_Corner]

I have followed my Cpl and Ifr ratings at Adventia.
It is a very good school and I must say that Salamanca is amazing,very lively!!But would not raccomend it at the moment because most of the flight instructors are now flying for Vueling and Air Europa.
I would suggest the flight school in Jerez because it seems that a lot of students get easily an interview with UK airlines after completion of the course.:ok:

[metar]

I've done my ME / IR, FI and a renewal at Aerofan in Madrid and would definitely recommend them (with the usual warning that whilst no problems getting it onto my UK CPL I'm not convinced the airlines particularly "like" spanish ratings...)

[BIG MISTER]

I often wonder if the Spainish airlines turn their noses up at applications unless the pilot has an IR from a UK training establishment ?

And how many FAA IR pilots and non UK JAA IR pilots are flying over our heads and in and out of our airports everyday putting us all at risk ?

[Carl Kevan]

Hello all.

I am planning on taking a few days off from work soon to go and check out some FTO's in Southern Spain. I will be flying into Malaga to start my research. Then moving on to go and see more FTO's at both Seville and Jerez.

Can anybody give me any background knowledge (first hand prefferable) about the various schools at these locations? FTE at Jerez obviously jumps into thought first, due to it's widespread reputation. But what about other places, such as Aerodynamics etc?

Thanks in advance guys 'n girls! :)

[ACIDO]

The top School in Spain is Adventia (http://www.adventia.org) in Salamanca.
Let's say it is the Spanish equivalent of OFT.

I can confirm it. A friend of mine got his ATPL frozen with them. Now he's Ryanair F/O.

Bye

ACID

[RVR800]

OPPOSITION TO SPANISH TRAINING ROUTE FOR IR

Europe is becoming similar to the US with many northern folks heading south to do their training; this process will continue; as for all this CAA vs Spanish equiv the opposition to this will all melt away in time as people realise that these people are actually flying into the UK from Spain anyway rather like the FAA chappies flying into Heathrow everyday with FAA IRs! Very un-British of me I know; but hey we live in the era of low cost flying and if its cheaper then hey thats what these low-co people practice themselves; I think they should encourage their pilots to do the same encourage it - you cant have it both ways!

[OnRoute]

Where have you stayed while training at Cuatro Vientos? I'm heading to Madrid next spring for a week and probably for a month during the coming summer and I'm looking for some reasonable priced accommodation where I can easily reach the airport.

-OnRoute-

ps. a blog about my training is available at http://0nroute.********.com

[crap pilot]

Im thinking of visiting Aerofan within the next two weeks and would very much appreciate any local knowledge from anybody that is/has been over there. What hotels would people recomend, would it be easier to hire a car ect.

Thanks
CP

[jar-dk]

I stayed in the suburb of leganes on the hotel Avenida, 8 min walk to the bus which will get you to CW in maybe 20 min- bear in mind that you are in the suburbs and the city center is far away- It looks fancier on http://www.cadenahotelavenida.com/ than it is but its fine, clean and new and shops and bars, restaurents are close. there must be countless hotels in the area, but let me know if you diig up anything cheaper and better.

[Orvil]

Hi,
Does anybody know how much the MCC is? No price on web page.
Thanks

[Mohit_C]

Hello,
I'm new to this forum. I'm 17 and will be finishing college the coming June 2007. After that I'm planning to become a pilot but I really don't know the procedures to becoming one. I have researched one school here called "Aerodynamics-Málaga" and they have given me information on the course but what worries me is how will I be able to apply for the airlines? Could someone, who possibly lives here in Spain, give me details on the procedures of joining the school and applying for an airline when I finished the course?

Thank you.

[davey147]

Would someone explain to me what the differences are between options 3 and 4 please. Thanks


I have a reply from Aerodynamics!
Multi-Engine Instrument Rating Course ME + IR (A) JAR-FCL
Option 1
11.600,-€ / £7.995,-
Option 2
10.950,-€ / £7.552,-
Option 3
8.118,-€ / £5.598,-
Option 4
8.695,-€ / £5.995,-
Requirements (common to all four options):
- Minimum 18 years of age
- Theoretical IR, (recommended theoretical ATPL)
- To hold a PPL (A) including a Night Qualification/Rating
- Flight Radiotelephony Operator’s Licence.
- 70 hours Cross Country flight time as PIC in aeroplanes or
helicopters, of which at least 10 hours shall be in aeroplanes.
N.B.: Medical in accordance with JAR-FCL 3.355(b)
Required documentation at start of the course:
- Photocopy of ID card/passport
- Medical Certificate
- Current licence
- Certificate of hours (or copy last page of logbook)
- 2 passport size photos on paper or electronic format
We are currently offering the following four options:
OPTION 1:
40 hours instrument time under instruction FNPT II
21 hours instrument time under instruction in a Multi Engine
Aircraft BE76 or similar (15 hrs IFR + 6 hrs VFR)
JAR ME (A) (VFR) Skill Test
JAR IR (A) Skill Test
OPTION 2:
35 hours instrument time under instruction FNPT II
21 hours flight instruction (Multi Engine Aircraft BE76)
JAR ME/IR (A) Skill Test
JAR ME/VFR (A) Skill Test
OPTION 3:
35 hours instrument time under instruction FNPT II
15 hours instrument time under instruction (Multi Engine Aircraft BE76)
JAR ME/IR (A) Skill Test
OPTION 4: ME (VFR) holder
40 hours FNPT II
15 hours flight instruction (Multi Engine Aircraft BE76)
JAR ME/IR (A) Skill Test

[mcgoo]

Theres 5 hours more on option 4 and it costs 397 pounds more!, or if you prefer 577 Euros

[jar-dk]

its if you have a CPL or PPL

[F199]

Davey147, i recommend you ask "Kyla" at Aerodynamics, shes very helpfull and can tell you what option you have to go for.
Good luck!!

[aircockroaches]

A friend of mine has in fact advised me not to go to Aerodynamics-Malaga, mainly due to it being more expensive & unluckily enough, during his time, some aircraft were unserviceable.

Could be just tough luck - but that was his experience!

aircockroaches

[BlueRobin]

Would someone explain to me what the differences are between options 3 and 4 please. Thanks

Got a reply ...

Option 1 is if you are holder of a PPL licence and you need the MEP + IR
Option 2 is if you already hold the CPL licence (with SEP)
Option 3 is if you are holder of CPL AND MEP rating
Option 4 is if you are PPL holder with MEP already

So combinations on whether you are a PPL (SE or ME) or CPL (SE or ME)

[upup&away]

Can anybody recommend a flight school at or near Alicante in Spain that teaches in English , and is reasonably priced.Many thanks.

[DC-8]

Nowadays the only FTO for the integrated ATPL course in Comunidad Valenciana is Airmed (Valencia). From my point of view is quite overpriced for the flight and sim. time they offer.

If I started my ATPL training again I would definitely go to Flight Training Europe (FTE) in Jerez. You will finish when you were said and the training is superb. All in English. It worths the money.

[upup&away]

are there any schools in alicante where i can do my ppl then? the reason i ask is because my parents have a villa in alicante and i could save a lot on accomodation costs. thanks

[DC-8]

If you want to get just the PPL you can have a look to this link: http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/0AC3A27D-CFFA-4739-A0BD-B37AEEB39A5D/22868/escuelas_ppl.pdf You will find all PPL schools recognised by the DGAC. However, if after the ppl you decide to continue with the CPL you will have to go out of Alicante.

[irish_cessna]

look up www.airman.es (http://www.airman.es) they based in malaga and madrid. i'm using them to do a PPL soon, irish weather sux and nearest club 90 min drive away even if wanted to try scrape it together here before my 25th
anyone recommend good atpl provider?

[LightspeedS]

Could some one enlighten me what the advantages are of a Spanish training?

[smith]

Could some one enlighten me what the advantages are of a Spanish training?

Price, modern facilities, good weather, good instruction.

[ItsAjob]

And their heads arn't up their own asses like most of the UK schools.
They treat you with a lot of respect, and the flying is about flying, not just all theory and fees.

[LightspeedS]

What would a PPL, CPL ab initio with IRF and CFI cost, including all bits and bobs?

[Simon150]

I am looking for an FBO that will do the JAA CPL course in Spain. I am due to finish ATPL exams in the next couple of months.

I did have a couple in mind, but I have been told that they don't do the individual CPL anymore, opting to concentrate on the more 'lucrative' Integrated Courses.....?

My plan was to get CPL abroad for the weather/cost etc, and then do the MEIR back in blightly.

Does anybody have any recomendations on FBO's in Spain (if any) that still run the JAA CPL course? I don't really want to go over to the States if possible.

Cheers all

[BlueRobin]

Are you aware of the State of Licence issue?

[Finals19]

You might want to consider doing the IR out there instead, since (as hinted by the last poster) you are required to do the CPL flight test in the same state that you completed the ATPL theory. At least thats how I understand it.

That said, would anybody care to comment on whether people can do their CPL skills test in the US? I know one can train for it out there?

[Simon150]

No..not aware of the State of Licence Issue. I will have done my ATPL sits here in the UK, and since people have subsequently done CPL etc in the US, assumed (mental note to self....don't assume anything in aviation!) that completing the CPL in a JAA member state would count.

That said...when the CPL is done in the states, its generally a JAA CPL and not an FAA CPL isn't it?

I am clearly lacking some knowledge in this area....would anybody on this glorious forum care to help offer a guiding hand?

[BlueRobin]

Essentially the CAA approve those FTOs for UK-issued JAR licences. Search and check "Standards Document 31" on the CAA website. Note the very few US businesses offering CPL and there are definately no full JAR IR courses out there.

LASORS in section iirc A8 describes the barrier. www.caa.co.uk/lasors

If you can swing some residency time in Spain, you could get aournd the problem.

[Fabbe_Far]

Flying schools in Spain

Adventia
Flight training europe
Aeromadrid
Topfly
Aerofan
Airmed

[Mohit_C]

Let me add Aerodynamics to that list.

[Fabbe_Far]

Hi

Anybody have any experience from Aero Madrid, Integrated or Modular.:)

[PlaneHomerS]

Hi the following thread may help:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=186640&highlight=aeromadrid

:ok:

[buswind]

any info. as to what to expect on the interview for easyjet?

[bas1234]

Hello everybody

Next year I want to follow the integrated course by Aero Madrid, but I have a few questions.

- How is the reputation of Aero Madrid?

- Does somebody know how airlines like ryan air or easy jet look against the integrated course by Aero Madrid?

- How are the yob opportunities after following the course by Aero Madrid?

Regards

[DIRRIK]

The only thing i can say about it is that the persons who did their course in Aeromadrid via European aviation agency finishing august 2006 have secured jobs or are in selection processes.

Greetz

D

[jerezflyer]

Aero Madrid have an good reputation in Spain. However, as far as job opportunies go - THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES ANYWARE - NO MATTER WHAT THE FTO TELLS YOU..............

[freecell25]

Hello

does any one know if spain accept a UK ATPL theory to pass a CPL in spain.?

and do you need spanish for radio or you can do all in English?

thanks

[JUST-local]

NO ! do a search it has been covered at great length several times before!

:{

[Lightheart]

Currently DGAC does not accept UK ATPL written exams. You have to do the CPL test in country of issue. So if you want a UK CAA CPL then you did to do it in UK.

Read Lasors.

[potkettleblack]

As far as I am aware there are only two countries that are trying to harmonise the JAA licences and ratings and therefore accept each others ATPL/CPL or IR passes. They are the UK and Ireland and there is a document on the CAA website explaining how it all works and which bits and pieces can be done where and who will end up issuing the actual licence at the end of it.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that there is little harmonisation going on for any of the other JAA member countries. Some would argue that they are simply protecting their own flight training industries but I would hate to think that sort of thing went on in the EU:)

If you want to get a UK CPL or IR then you need to check with the CAA as the issuing country if they have approved any overseas schools for whichever part of the training that you wish to undertake. There is a list of approved schools on their website. If you want to get a Spanish licence then you need to check with them. Can you see the trend developing here?

The moral of the story is start with who you want to issue your licence and ask them as they make the rules.

[pablo2973]

WHy on earth would anyone on his right mind try to get a CPL spanish pilot licence ?, I have it ,and is useless if you want to fly abroad , KEEP your UK licence it is the BEST you can get nowadays in the world ,and do not believe any job promise in Spain unless you sign a contract upfront.
yes you can talk in english on the radio ,the only problem is that your instructor may have problems to understand you ,thats all .
Regards From spain paul

[girolat_b]

Yeah you can do all in english language, but except Adventia in Salamanca I advice you don't try any other flight school in psian, especially try to avoid one in Valencia.

The america's cup and its characteristics made it a nightmare for any student.

[JUST-local]

why indeed!

I think you have the wrong end of this thread, the origional question and the same question has been posted many times before was regarding people with UK ATPL exams credits wanting a CPL course/ skill test which would be valid for a UK CPL issue, which spain is not.

Why?

spanish CPL (and IR) Advertised at less than half the UK price! I have been told that the Spansh CAA fees are penuts compared to the £712 that the UK CAA charges.

The current UK weather is a no go for CPL training unless you are thinking of a CPL course based around a complex sea plane type!:E

On a final note a JAA pilots licence is just that why would your Spanish issued JAA one be better or worse than a JAA UK issued one?

Cheers......

[OPEN DES]

I did my flighttraining in Spain completely. Have been flying 320s now for a few years.

There are many dodgy schools around. However there are also a number of very good schools.

The good ones:
FTE Jerez
AeroMadrid
Adventia, Salamanca

Stay clear of the other ones!

I also had a Spanish JAA CPL once. It's no problem converting it to a Dutch, UK or whatever JAA license. I did both. JAA is JAA.

[BClouds]

hey, i am hesitating between AIRMED et TOP FLY.
Which would you recommend?

[DC-8]

I did my flighttraining in Spain completely. Have been flying 320s now for a few years.

There are many dodgy schools around. However there are also a number of very good schools.

The good ones:
FTE Jerez
AeroMadrid
Adventia, Salamanca

Apart from FTE and Adventia I would recommend Gestair Flying Academy. From my point of view Aeromadrid is not a good choice at the moment. It used to be one of the best flight schools in Spain, however, is having very bad economical and management problems at the moment. Almost 90% of the fleet is U/S and they had a fatal accident some weeks ago.

[DC-8]

hey, i am hesitating between AIRMED et TOP FLY.
Which would you recommend?

I don't have good references about Airmed. And in my opinion is very expensive for what they offer you.

[BClouds]

Oh my god..Gestair :eek:
This is surely one of the most amazing flight school website i have seen!

Looks so professional!
However, informations is lacking...nothing about fees:rolleyes:
nothing about housing too..

I have just contacted them, i hope they don't close on Saturday!

[ferny300]

beclouds, have you checked jerez in the south of spain?

there is a very good school there, bit expensive but there are some european companies that take pilots from there.

Ah! and much better weather than madrid or gerona

[BClouds]

Yeah i did, looks great too but i don't see myself paying that much money.
I'll call Gestair tomorrow and ask for total fees.

By the way, check this article :eek:
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/mh/ebace052307/index.php?startpage=26

[BClouds]

Any more feedback?

[WingRaver]

Whats the cost of FT Adventia, Salamanca?

[BClouds]

From what i am hearing, i should stay away from airmed.

I've just received a mail from them:

"We are Member of EAAPS. Association that groups the best and most important Aviation Schools in Europe (Lufthansa Flight Training, Oxford Aviation Training, BAE, among others), and we are also members of the AEFA(Agrupación de Escuelas de Formación Aeronáutica)


With our “Integrated Course ATPL” (Airline Transport Pilot Licence)”, our students will obtain just in 14 months, the highest official FTO qualification in the aeronautical field. This allows one to fly for hire or reward in any European (JAA) country."

I mean from what they are saying the academy sure seems good
Although i am wandering how it could all be done in 14 months only..all, if not most of the flight academies offering integrated ATPL i know have at least 17 months of study!

Anyway, i guess i'll just visit and see myself.
Adventia looks great too..i am lost :{

[BClouds]

Good morning, i have just received a mail from Gestair:


"We are at present setting up our international courses, so at present from our schools we provide the training in Spanish and Portuguese respectively. As a consequence we do not yet have accomodation for students, since most of our students are from the area close to the schools. However, we do help our students to find accomodation whenever necessary.

As I explained you the courses at present are not yet in english. However, if you would like more information related to these courses please do not hesitate to contact me!

At present I am not sure of the exact procedure, but if you are interesting in enrolling at our academy I can find our for you.

I hope I have helped you, if you would like to know more please do not hesitate to let me know!"

Bye gestair :*

[BClouds]

So Gestair is out..that means i currently have the choice in spain between adventia and topfly.

I am waiting for their mails..

During the mean time, can anyone give me feedback about these 2??

Have a nice day

[moggiee]

Without wishing to be rude to the Spanish, a Spanish IR is quite simply not worth the paper upon which it is written. We see quite a few people who've gained a Spanish IR and, without exception, they are a long way short of the sort of standard that is required.

When it comes to renewing an IR in the UK they ALL need a serious amount of remedial training, very few have been taught the correct techniques in the first place. Of course, the IR holder thinks that he got a good deal in Spain because he got a first time pass - usually being blissfully aware that he would not be able to pass a UK IMC rating test.

I am staggered when I see posts on here which seem to indicate that the choice is being made based upon how smart the website looks - if you select your training provider that way, then you get what you deserve!

[BClouds]

Wow just received infos from Adventia.

The course is actually 24 months :rolleyes:
Isn't that too long? I mean we all finish ATPL (integrated) between 14-20 moths.

The course fees: 68,000 euros.
That is actually very acceptable!

I guess i will give up on Adventia..2 full years is really too long.
In AAE for example, the course takes 14 months.
http://www.aae.pt

Back to my thinking :rolleyes:

[WingRaver]

@BEclouds

Language of the spoken part of Gestairs courses (spain and Portugal) are not in english, however all books, on-line training and flying is.

Note that AAE and Gestair Portugal (portuguese law I suppose)
require the passing of a tough Aeronautical aptitude test, which costs about 300 Euros.

I'm going to lisbon end of september to have a closer insight to gestair.
I speek absolutely no portuguese, still I want do do training there cause I want to learn the lingo.

cheers

[WingRaver]

AAE is about 72000 euros.
Theory is held in english at CAE Amsterdam.

[BClouds]

I will pass by Gestair too at end of this month, even though i am giving up on it. Maybe i'll see you there :)

Although all of the self-training is done in english, as you said the courses are in spanish/portuguese.

It's definitely a disadvantage for me, in other words i absolutely do not want to take that risk.


Good luck,

BeautifulClouds

[BClouds]

Oh thanks.
72,000 euros is a good price.

Do you have an idea about accommodation?
I mean are the 72,000 with accommodation included?

Note: If you have an idea about the different accommodation offers, please let me know (food 3X a day, internet 24/7, etc..)

[WingRaver]

@BEclouds

AAE is responsible for all the arrangements with CAE. This price also includes CRM theory training at AAE and Hotel room based on CAE centre home town (Netherlands), but excludes breakfast and transportation, during the period of the MCC course.

The total cost of 72000 euros includes exam fees, licence issue, uniform, manuals and flight material but excludes transportation, board and lodging, and the enrolling fee of 1.350 €.

[BClouds]

Sweet thanks. AAE is the academy i am really aiming for.
The only thing that scares me is that it's all done in 14 months.

I do not want to spend my training time rushing you see.

I am visiting the academy in 3 weeks.
If i cannot make it for the start in october, i'll have to wait till january 02.

Bclouds

[WingRaver]

@BClouds

You should go to the big presentation their having on the 20th, which I cant attend to unfortunately.
I'll probably be at Gestair on the 27th of Sept.

U also visiting Topfly on your Europe-trip? I'm in BCN from 25th-27th.

[BClouds]

Well i didn't know they are having a presentation on the 20th!
Can you give me more infos??

During my time in Europe, i will be visiting the following schools:

Spain:
Gestair
Topfly
Adventia
Aeromadrid
FTE

Portugal:
AAE

Sweden:
Scandinavian Aviation Academy

Switzerland:
Swiss Aviation Training


If you need to know more about these, or even want me to visit other flight schools in these countries for infos, let me know.


BeautifulClouds



By the way, just received info from Aeromadrid:

ATP (integrated) : 20 months
86,000 euros (everything, housing included, excluding meals)
They have a A320 simulator for type rating :)

A bit expensive, but apparently very good.

Any feedback about aeromadrid?

[redout]

Posted by DC-8 on 1/9/07

1st September 2007, 09:18
DC-8
Over 150 posts! About time I clicked here and ordered a Personal Title.


Join Date: May 2006
Location: Spain
Age: 21
Posts: 180


Apart from FTE and Adventia I would recommend Gestair Flying Academy. From my point of view Aeromadrid is not a good choice at the moment. It used to be one of the best flight schools in Spain, however, is having very bad economical and management problems at the moment. Almost 90% of the fleet is U/S and they had a fatal accident some weeks ago.

[Bertie Bassett]

Moggiee wrote:

Without wishing to be rude to the Spanish, a Spanish IR is quite simply not worth the paper upon which it is written. We see quite a few people who've gained a Spanish IR and, without exception, they are a long way short of the sort of standard that is required.

When it comes to renewing an IR in the UK they ALL need a serious amount of remedial training, very few have been taught the correct techniques in the first place. Of course, the IR holder thinks that he got a good deal in Spain because he got a first time pass - usually being blissfully aware that he would not be able to pass a UK IMC rating test.

Ouch! You certainly didn't mention my IR skills when I did my MCC at your "establishment". I've just checked my logbook and when I renewed the Spanish IR for the first time (at a certain well known UK FTO at LBA), the "serious amount of remedial training" came out as 1.1hrs pre-test training and then a successful renewal test.

My personal opinion is that the flying school matters a lot less than the student's attitude to flight training.

[WingRaver]

@BCLouds

well, thank you very much.
I'm sure you'll gather alot of valuable info on this trip, in which I would love to take some insight.

cheers

P.S.: Try BFS Salzburg, AUSTRIA www.verkehrsfliegerschule.at (http://www.verkehrsfliegerschule.at) . They do "Zero To ATPL" for 55000 euros (excl. board and lodge)

[BClouds]

No problem.
I'll give you all necessary infos, feedback and thoughts on my visits.

verkehrsfliegerschule looks sweet, but there is no english language!



PS: I asked aeromadrid when i could visit the academy, their answer:

"I suggest you to come next week on Tuesday 11th. We have that day an Open Day with four or five candidates (Dutch and Irish). We will start about 13:00 with a snack with actual student-pilots, visit to the facilities, a flight test in the PA34 simulator, and a final flight in the Airbus A-320 simulator, finishing at 20:00."

That's a great opportunity!
I'll do my best to be there.

BeautifulClouds

[moggiee]

Bertie Bassett - I could perhaps have phrased that better! Sorry! Let me try again.

The Spanish IR is NOT well regarded within the UK industry, either by employers, FTOs or the CAA. In general, the standard of training falls well short of that expected at/by a UK FTO and the CAA. That is the reason that FTE remains under UK stewardship with UK examiners - moving over to the Spanish DGAC would be perceived as a retrograde step and a lowering of standards. They would lose customers if they did take such a step as their UK approval is one pf their major selling points.

It IS fair to say that all of the Spanish trained people we have had through here for renewals have found it hard work due to not having a solid enough grounding in basic principles and procedures. Please note that I'm not including you in this as you did not do your IR renewal with us! However, I must reiterate in the interests of honesty that the Spanish trained IR renewal customers who've come to us have found it demanding and have needed remedial work.

This is not a reflection upon the quality of the pilot but a reflection upon the quality of the FTO and examination system that sold them short in the first place. The students attitude and application is very important - flying training is one of those "you get out what you put in" processes, but the FTO does matter and it matters greatly (in my opinion).

[BClouds]

Thanks for your sharing your opinion.
It's quite the same my uncle (ex-pilot) has told me:

A pilot training program is dependent on the quality of the ground and flight instruction the student receives.

He added that the beginning student pilot will, most probably, attempt to imitate their flight instructor during training.


So i am fully aware of all that.
Spain is not a must for me, i might choose portugal, sweden or even switzerland.

It all depends on the impressions and contacts i will make during my european visits starting next week.


BeautifulClouds

[moggiee]

It all depends on the impressions and contacts i will make during my european visits starting next week.
BeautifulClouds

That's the way to do it - don't be too impressed by websites and brochures but go there, speak to students and try to get a real feel for the place.

My brother walked out on a visit to a well known UK FTO which has a good reputation and very polished brochures, websites, literature etc. after seeing the way that they treated their modular students. The atmosphere and the opinions of students count for a lot.

Remember, the school needs YOU more than you need THEM - without your money they go out of business.

[BClouds]

Hello again!

So I have a quick question about aeromadrid:

Which airlines are aeromadrid with?
In other words, at the end of the ATPL course, where will we be able to apply via Aeromadrid?

Good day

[DC-8]

So I have a quick question about aeromadrid:

Which airlines are aeromadrid with?
In other words, at the end of the ATPL course, where will we be able to apply via Aeromadrid

Aeromadrid does not have any agreement with any airline. They used to have one with Swiftair in the past... but not any longer.

I would suggest you to stay away from AEM by the moment. They are suffering a huge crisis. They have over 30 aircrafts and more than 90% of them are U/S. I don't think AEM will stay alive for a long time... so be careful about your decision.

[BClouds]

Thank you, adios aeromadrid :)

[despegue]

Moggiee,

Sorry my man, but I do NOT agree with you.
I studied at Airmed in 2001/2002. all my classmates of my promotion got a job within the year flying jets, and this without any retraining. Moreover, I sometimes am surprised how basic the knowledge of some newly graduated Oxford/Cabair/etc. students is, even not knowing how to calculate a direct routing, not being able to force direct or teardrop entries, not being able to tell 2 different ways how to make sure the DME-arc is accurately flown,... never practiced REAL engine failures during twin-training ( I mean stopped engine, not just retarding).
The UK is full of "procedures", but tell you what, that DOES NOT make you a good pilot.

I am fed up by some British, thinking that the UK is the Mecca of Aviation. It is far from it. Your levels are way below what is standard in for example Belgium. (yes, I am Belgian).
I flew in my previous airline with mostly ex. BA/BMI etc. guys. Guess what, they were afraid the moment you dare to mention raw-data. NEVER did I see them putting off the flight-director. And that is NOT "the way it should be done". not at all.

[moggiee]

A couple of points (OK, 5!):

One - we can all have our opinions. Mine is based on seeing pilots who hold an IR and have trained in the UK, Spain, Denmark, USA, Australia, New Zealand, Turkey, Cyprus, France, Malta, Iceland, the RAF, Belgium etc. etc. etc.

Two - most people believe that they trained at a great school - because most people only have experience of being an IR student at one school so have no comparative frame of reference.

Three - BA pilots are not scared of raw data flying - they do plenty of it. The Ops Manual even suggests that they practice doing such a thing in order to keep skills levels up.

Four - there are good pilots and bad pilots from all over the place. Some will remember what they were taught during their IR and some will not. For the record, one of the worst I've ever had to work with was a Belgian - but that is a reflection upon him and his attitude more than anything else!

Five - well, I would make point five but it's not polite to quote an IR renewal customer without his permission and it would only upset those who think they got good a high standard of training when doing an IR in Spain.

[emerald wings]

does any one have any views about doing a cpl ir at aerofan madrid,views would be well appreciated from past or present students.:ok:

[Lightheart]

I did IR conversion there. You'll get in done on time and in budget.

Friendly, helpful staff and they geniunely want to see you pass in minimum time.

However, the standard of training is not as high as some northern european countries. So if you're doing an IR for the first time don't be surprise if you'll require some retraining on a future check ride. The examiner will mark you to JAR standard, but I know that some of the things you might get away with you wouldn't in the UK, for example.

My advice would be to go and visit and decide for yourself.

[emerald wings]

Thanks a lot light heart iam still trying to figure out if its worth my while doing the multi ir for the first time in spain.:confused:

[Fabbe_Far]

Whats the price for the Integrated or ATPL course ...:}

[unowho]

Quote from Lightheart

"You have to do the CPL test in country of issue. So if you want a UK CAA CPL then you did to do it in UK."

Wrong. How do FTE cope then?????

Yes why don't you read lasors Lightheart.

[Lightheart]

For the benefit of our FTE instructor...

My quote is still generally correct. If you have done your exams in the UK you have to do the CPL skills test in the UK. However, there are some FTOs based outside the UK like FTE and Cabair (in US) where you can do skills test. This is because they are CAA approved to do so (more the exception rather than the norm).

But generally speaking you CANNOT go to a non-CAA approved school and do a CPL skills test to receive a UK issued licence when you have completed the exams in the UK. Some states like Greece accept the UK exams but Spain does NOT. If it were possible I would have done so.

[Lightheart]

...I want to clarify. You cannot do the ATPL writtens in the UK, then go to Greece do a CPL skills test and get a CAA issued licence. You will get a greek licence which you will then have to apply to the CAA to convert to the UK one.

[davidathomas42]

and whats the problem with that?

its a matter of paperwork and a token fee.

[Finals19]

What's wrong with it is that if you have written your ATPL exams in the UK, you are required (with the couple of exceptions) to do your CPL skills test in the UK, as Lightheart stated. No point b**gering off to Greece because you will not be able to get the licence...period.

[davidathomas42]

you are full of it! I did mine in greece and my exams in england as did a few of my aviation friends, no hasssle, just paperwork! what the hell are you talking about numpty, stop giving wrong advice.