Strange Noise At Wainfleet Range

[Paracab]

Visited the In-laws last week who live 2-3 miles from Wainfleet Range as the crow flies.

During the visit a pair of what I believe were F15s spent about half an hour making a half dozen or so passes, pulling up almost to the vertical after each pass and rolling to the right.

As they pulled up an odd noise could be heard, I can only descibe it as vibration lasting about a second, similair to the noise a mobile phone makes as it vibrates on a hard surface.

The In-laws report that this noise has been occurring for some time when certain aircraft are on the range.

Any ideas on the cause of the strange noise ?

[BEagle]

M61-A1 20mm multi-barrel cannon fire during strafe attacks.

Sounds like a horse farting.

[Get me some traffic]

I once heard an A10 firing its gatling gun. Sounded like paper tearing! Scary!!

[Bob Viking]

Paracab.
We strafe at Wainfleet regularly and yet you've never noticed!
I'm hurt!!
I'll get my coat.
BV:{

[Pontius Navigator]

I believe Beags is right. Someone today said exactly the same thing about a funny noise.

[Paracab]

Thanks Beags, If anything, I can now recognise a horse passing wind.

Sorry Bob, will make an effort to spend more time there and recognise the different activites on the range !

No closer though if you don't mind old chap, the chickens are off laying as it is already ! ;)

(Luckily for me the chap that scores the bombing and strafing buys farm goods off the in-laws small holding and I have spent a happy few hours in his hut. If anyone wants their score improved I am signed up to paypal and open to offers...)

[SPIT]

Hi
I was at the range at PENDINE in the 80s and when A 10s fired their gatling gun it did make a strange noise and it also DESTROYED the target area.:ok: :ok:

Hi again??
Correction not Pendine but Pembrey. The people who used pendine sands would be VERY CROSS if a couple of A 10s strafed the area???:eek: :eek:

[ShyTorque]

Cannon? Horse farts? This gives me an idea.

As we can't afford to buy ammo for the new cannon on the Typhoon; why not ditch the cannon for now and just carry a backwards facing / forward firing horse instead? The lads could practice using that... :E

[allan907]

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrup. Sound of an A10 strafing:ok:

Reminds me of one of my first tasks at RAF Wittering as OC PMS. Had to finish off a Board of Inquiry into a Harrier that shot itself down over Wainfleet. Unfortunately the pilot was killed. Basically what happened was that on the strafing run one of the 30mm shells ricocheted off some stuff buried in the mud and the right hand spin of the round sent it off right just as the jet was doing its break right. The round entered the cockpit and hit the pilot. Think they changed the procedure to break left after that one - but a Harrier mate will be able to confirm that.

[Gainesy]

Watched RAF Phantoms use the gun pods once, sounded more like a cow in labour than a horse farting, but one is not a vitnery so could be wrong. Bloody impressive anyway.

(And a lot cheaper than lobbing a missile at some scroats in a Toyota pick-up with a .50 cal in the back).

[Navaleye]

I heard that you could attach 4 (!) gunpods to the Phantom and it was done. That would be a damned impressive sight (and sound).

[Fg Off Bloggs]

She!te, Navaleye!

You heard it and "It was Done". Did you have a hand in creating the World in 7 days as well?

You Navy guys are just amazing!

Bloggs

[foldingwings]

Yep, we all learned from that Harrier fatality and realised that the break off the target in strafe should always be opposite to the rifling of the barrel (which creates the spin of the bullet, thereby defining the direction of travel of a ricochet!).

[Conan the Librarian]

Yes Navaleye, the 'Toom did have 4 gunpods fitted as tool of choice in Vietnam by the 8th TFW or "Wolfpack", led by the ubiquitous Robin Olds, if fading memory serves me well. Quite a potent package, by all accounts, though the flex in the mountings (X4!!) made for a very useful spread. (Off topic, but Olds lead 1 sqn RAF on Meteors for about six months or so in the early 50s)

Conan

[dmanton300]

I heard that you could attach 4 (!) gunpods to the Phantom and it was done. That would be a damned impressive sight (and sound).
Maximum usable gun pod set up on the Phantom was three SUU-23 pods. Suggest you google for "Chico the gunfighter" for the story of CAS in Vietnam where one pilot carried three on his F-4E for a total of four M-61's. VMFA-122 operated F-4B's in a three pod configuration from DaNang on CAS duties for a few months in 1967, though in this case the pods carried were Mk-4 20mm HIPEG. I believe the HIPEG was a twin barrel weapon.
One ANG squadron did show an F-4C one time with five SUU-23, but this was just an airshow static joke - the pods on the inner pylons would not have allowed the U/C to retract!

Chico The Gunfighter (http://tinyurl.com/8mrcd)

[Bob Viking]

Allan 907.
You are quite correct about bullet spin. However, at two of the three east coast ranges the circuit pattern is still to the right!! We get over the problem by climbing to a decent height before turning.
BV

[BEagle]

Back in 1982, 'twere decided that HM's AD chaps should indulge in the despicable trade of air-to-mud. So the SUU23s were fitted, and off we went to Wainfleet and Cowden to show the Jag/Harrier fags how it was REALLY done. Great fun, join via the bridge, do a dry pass, then left hand down and set up for a hot pass. Do switches, "In hot", make gun live, then whoooooooooo , release, pull out, downwind, wait for score....

So easy - why do the muds make such a big deal about it? Last time I had a go, the first jet was tits up. Change to the spare, crank up, poke off and 500 KIAS towards some bit of uninhabitable east coast UK to make my slot. Dry pass, then a couple of hot passes. From the RSO, "Can you do a low pass please?" Does a fat dog fart? "OOH Yes!". 600 KIAS past the RSO's hut, than back to bounce seven shades of $hit out of my Flt Cdr who was doing his Tac Check. Listened out on the frequency, then caught him and killed him during a frequency change; blasted through the formation and buggered off back to Wattisham. Total flight time less than one hour... Came the comment from NRL Griggles in the back seat "I think you rather enjoyed that!"

I certainly did - but even more so when they told me I'd got 52% which was the best score of the day!

[6foottanker]

Several years ago when I was a stude at Valley, one of the boys had a flying complaint lodged against him, because according to an old (ex army) taffy bloke wandering through the Welsh mountains, his hawk had fired its cannon at him, he 'could tell because of the noise, ' he 'used to be in the army, you know'.

Just a bit of pull to the buffet going on, but perhaps that might have accounted for an odd noise?? Do F-15s use buffet as a manoevring technique?:confused:

[Ewan Whosearmy]

If the noise is occuring as the jets pull *off-target*, then it's unlikely to be the Vulcan. More likely buffet as 6foot suggests (yes, the F-15E pulls to, and spends a lot of time at, the buffet).

[212man]

But it was reported as 2-3 miles away; speed of sound and all that?

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Yep, forgot about that.

[Paracab]

First of all, a big thank you to all you that have taken the time to answer what I realise was largely a spotter type question.

Secondly, I am about to admit massive naivety when I say I'm not sure what you mean by buffet. Is this the pre-stall buffet I have read so much about and have learned about during PPL lessons ?

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Strange noises at A-G ranges:

At Magilligan in N Ireland the residents of the HMP alongside the range were used to the sedate pop-popping noises from helicopter-mounted GPMG. Apparently/allegedly, the M134 from the Chinook had an enlivening effect on proceedings there...

[Pontius Navigator]

The sequence is smoke, pull off, splash, climbout, noise.

[Clarence Oveur]

This is what it sounds like when an F-15 fires it's gun.

Vulcan M61A1 (http://members.tripod.com/rcav8or/Components/sounds/eagle_1.wav)

[classjazz]

Returning to the Military forum after a long absence I note that according to the replies to the above subject, Harriers seemed to shoot themselves down more often than I thought. I was involved in tasking Harriers in Germany during the 80's and cannot recall any instances there - however on my return to flying I was on a PD to Lyneham one day when requested by ATC to expedite clearance of the r/w as there was a Harrier on finals with an emergency. I met the pilot concerned in Ops a short time later and apparently he had fired his rocket pod during a Fire Power demo on Salisbury Plain when a ricochet went through his canopy. I told him that it as his own fault for flying such a silly aircraft and he replied "Yes - but not for much longer" After rejecting promotion and a Stateside exchange tour he was off to fly 747's in the Far East.
So it's not true - the fast jet guys CAN learn from their mistakes!

[Farmer 1]

The sequence is smoke, pull off, splash, climbout, noise.

And the time from smoke to noise can be surprisingly long. I remember watching a couple of A10s at Donna Nook. They were coming in about 15 seconds apart, and we heard the sound of the first gun firing after the second one had done its stuff. The time delay was 17 seconds, and we were actually on the beach with what I would describe as a ringside view. Very difficult to judge distance when there is nothing to refer to, and the aircraft are always so much bigger than you might imagine.

There was a strong wind at our backs, and I've just done a quick sum. Against a 30kt wind, sound would take about 17 seconds to travel 3 miles. At 2.5 miles, the wind would have to be something really stupid to take that time (unless I am), so I guess 3 miles must have been our approximate range from the action.

The A10s are long gone now. They used to put on quite a show, and the noise carried for many miles. I never heard or read of one complaint from the local villages, although I've no doubt there were some. It's Bomber County, and even now the locals take pride in their historical links with aviation.


Clarence Oveur - PLEASE - control your horse!

Farmer.

[BALOO]

allen907 -

I remember that day well, it was a Friday, my birthday, the in-laws had just arrived when I got called and as SFSO and I hardly saw them for the whole weekend!

Following the BOI I seem to recall a recommendation to show a film on ricochets (French made - I think) to all OCU studes. Is this still the case? It wasn't that the ricochet hit something buried in the mud - it ricocheted off the mud itself!

The film showed that a majority of rounds fired ricochet to some extent (biased to the direction of rifling) and this happened irrespective of surface type eg mud, water etc!!!!!! I remember thinking 'this strafing thing looks bl**dy dangerous - I'm not doing that!'

Bob Viking -

There are cases where aircraft have been hit whilst downwind when the ricochets are returning to earth! Height will certainly reduce - but not completely overcome the problem!

[supermario]

Farmer 1,

A10s are not quite as rare as you may think. Had the pleasure of taking my boys to Holbeach to watch an A10/B2/A10 sandwich a couple of months ago. A10s were very impressive with rockets, bombs and guns. The B2 missed twice out of two, by a long way (good grouping though). Last heard muttering over the radio what a long drive it had been...and what a long trip back it was going to be!

Mario

[Ewan Whosearmy]

If you're into your Hogs, there will be some 81st FS A-10s (from Spang, Germany) at Lakenheath for a week or two later on this month. No doubt a trip to the ranges will be planned.

[Pontius Navigator]

A10s, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday - Exercise Vanguard 05. F16s too.