VABB special VFR for RW 27 Is it legal ?

[alwaysflying]

After the AI 747 overshot the RW 14 at Mumbai the DGCA India approved visual approaches on RW 27 with a vis of 1500m and ceiling of 2600 ft, the following questions come to mind :

1. When the minima for a LOC DME approach on RW27 is 2000m and the circling minima is 5000m, how is a visual app authorized at 1500m.

2.From what I heard is that the Appraoach Radar would position the aircraft at 2600ft between 8-9 nm on the Localizer, the aircraft were then cleared for the visual approach, asked to check height over OM and to leave 2600ft once field in sight. With a vis of 1500m they obviously cannot sight the RW at 8nm so in which direction were they expected to continue visualy. Apparantly they all continued on the LOC. A LOC approach could not be authorized since the ILS DME was u/s and required at vis of 2000m.

3. Assuming the Pilots did exactly as instructed he would sight the RW at about 1nm or the ALS at about 3nm. At 2600 ft it would take some dive to land on the RWY and then not to overshoot. The DGCA completely absolved itself by putting a note " This approach is authorized to be conducted at the sole discretion of the PIC ". Very responsible for a regulatory authority.

Will Pilots having conducted this approach give some feedback.

[Cough]

Always...

We are authorised to do visual approaches in RVR's down to 800m. Now you aren't going to go far visually in that, but such a low minima is available for the case where there is low lying fog. If you can't see then you can't do a visual apprach (this is where the PIC discretion comes in...ATC can't see what you can, particularly with scattered clouds etc). But the minima have to take into account all weather conditions that you will encounter, not just the 'normal situation'.

Hope this helps...

[ManaAdaSystem]

Not all of us are allowed to do visual approaches in 800 meters vis.
Is this procedure in BOM NOTAM? Do they actually say special VFR? A special VFR can be flown with vis 1500 meters, but not on a IFR clearance.
I'm not allowed to opererate VFR, and I'm not allowed to do visual approaches in 1500 meters vis. I can't fly the procedure.

[Cough]

Would I do a visual approach in 800m. No. Would I do a visual with flight visibility at over 10k, but with shallow fog leading to RVR's... yup. Thats what its about, not doing visual approaches with flight viz at 800m.

[Seat1APlease]

I am a bit confused about how VISUAL APPROACH is being defined here. On an instrument approach you can fly down to the limit on the procedure then land, on the other hand you may see the runway early and continue visually.

On a visual approach you have to have referrence all the way down to touchdown from the start of the visual procedure. You may not necessarily be able to see everything but you must know exactly where you are so the concept of a decision height is meaningless. On the other hand ATC may either vector you or tell you to start a procedure in the hope that you will become visual, either above the decision height for the procedure or before the limit is reached for his radar calibration otherwise you go around. They may decide that if the vis and cloud are below certain minima then they will not offer this as you are unlikely to see the runway, and individual airlines my also have limits as to what they can accept for an approach, so surely the answer is that if the LOC procedure or radar controller can only guide you to 7 miles then you are either visual at that point and you can continue or you go around, the 1500 metre limit is more like the french approach ban rather than anything else, or have I misunderstood the problem?

[ManaAdaSystem]

I know what you are saying Cough, but I'm not allowed to do visual approaches with visibility OR RVR of 800 or 1500 meters. You operate under Jar Ops and can.

Seat1A, a visual approach is at the discretion of the commander. ATC is not allowed to suggest a visual approach (Jar Ops at least). You seem to confuse decision height (or altitude) with visiblility. We need a certain visiblility to continue past the outer marker (or equivalent point). So how can you do a LOC app (if thats what it is) with less visiblility than what is normally required?

Do they have a published SRE approach in BOM, or is this another "BOM special"?

To complicate matters, in BOM you may happily slide down the ILS, become visual with the runway, airport, terminal, and still be denied a landing clearance just because tower (or the midget sitting in the grass next to the runway making manual RVR assessments) judges visibility below minima.

[None]

I have only operated at BOM at night.

I have often noticed the significant hills on both sides of the jet while on final to 27. The enhanced GPWS displays them clearly, but not all of our jets have it.

It would be quite an attention-getter to do a low visibiltiy (800 or 1500m) visual approach at night to this runway, knowing there is little tolerance for deviation.