Is it that much cheaper to train in the US?

[TJF97]

Can someone tell me if its that much cheaper to train in the States?

I think that once you add all the extra's on to your training abroad its nearly the same price as training in the UK.

I've put a few figures together, I've based these on a 4 week course and the fact that most people need another 5 - 10 hours extra lessons on top of the minimum 45 to complete the PPL. Then additionaly having to pay for a check test in the UK at the local club before you can hire a plane.

These figures are only approx.

JAA PPL 45 hour course = £3000
10 Hours extra lesson's on top of the 45 = £500
Air fare = £300
Accomadation = £400
Food/Drink = £300
Visa's = £100
3 - 4 hour Check test at local club = £400

That's a grand total of £5000!!

What do people think?? Should I just stay in the UK and cycle the 8 miles to my nearest club??

[jamielatham]

Hello Mate

You are quit right, for a small PPL course you might aswell stay at home and do it there, i am doing a full JAA ATPL course in America, i am going to save around £20,000-£30,000, so it depends on the course that you are going for.

Hope this has helped,

Feel free to ask me any questions

Cya

Jamie

[TJF97]

Jamie,
Are you going from zero to F/ATPL? or have you already got your PPL? Also where are you training??

Regards

Sidyboy75

[What's a Girdler]

Don't go cheap on training. Safety is paramount. If you want to fly in the uk, train in the uk. You have crap weather, congested airspace, controlled airspace everywhere, which is brilliant for experience, improving airmanship, and teaching you to cope in a difficult environment. This all makes you a better pilot in my opinion especially if you want to fly in the uk.

So many guys who come back from a 3 week jaunt in the US don't have the experience to cope with these conditions. Where I live in the south east, the airspace is so crowded, I am glad that i trained over here. Especially if you want to go professional.

[Julian]

Bit of a blinkered view Girdler,

I have done quite a bit of flying in the US, as well as the UK and have to say that you can get as much weather over there as you can handle! If you want good weather you can find it just as you can find really crap weather to go and use your IR in.

I did my PPL in California and you can fly in CAVOK, to ski resorts (yes I kid you not within 40mins flying time), the marine layer (which can catch out the unwary), not to mention your usual overcast skies just as in the UK.

You may want to look up Long Beach (KLGB), very crowded Class B airspace and everything there from GA, to commercial and the military flying the C17.

I did an hours checkout at two clubs on my return and was signed off straight away at both.

In LGB rates are

Aircraft (C152/172) = $45/$70 Hr
Accomdation = $38/Night.
Food = Roughly $20 for good 3 course meal (If you can eat 3 courses yank sized!!!!)
Beer = Domestic beer for about $3 a pint, we drank Guiness thought at a whopping $5.50 pint!!!

BTW mate who I learnt with has just landed a job flying A320s in the UK so training cant be that bad :D

Fly where you want to at the end of the day, I have done both and enjoy both.

Julian.

[TenAndie]

I agree. I have done the majority of my flying in Florida (in summer) and never had any problems.

I would advise anyone to go out there and the money you save on a PPL, IMC, Night and Multi you can pay for a full ATPL ground school course :ok:

[TJF97]

I can see why people go to the States as it does look cheaper on paper. The point I was making was that after adding all the additional expenses (flights, accomodation and food) it appeared to me that it wasn't that cost effective??

I was just after some advice from you guys that have been over to the States, I'm I right or wrong about the cost??

Julian, I've looked at the flight schools in Long Beach but they don't seem to offer JAA training instead they issue a JAR Complient licence which as far as I'm aware is a FAA licence. Wouldn't this make things complicated if I carried on with further training (CPL/IR etc)??

Regards

Sidyboy75

[George Semel]

Well you have to live and eat no matter where you are, those are fixed expenses. Brition's have a long tradition of coming to the States for Flight Training. I know Gunness is not cheap here for some reason, I like that too much. When you come here to train, if you are going to be here for a while, take in consideration, that when you look for housing, make sure you have a kitchen so you can do your own cooking. You can buy a lot of food here for not a lot of money if you know how and were to shop. Is it less expensive that Europe, I don't know I never did any flying there or traning, right now with the exchange rates, I would think it would be a good value for some.

[Julian]

TJF,

I think there are a couple of JAA schools round CA, I have seen then mentioned on the forums but couldnt tell you the names I am afraid.

The 'JAA Compliant' licence is nonense I am afraid, its an FAA PPL with air law and RT added to it as far as I am aware. A JAA compliant licence does not exist! For your initial PPL is does not relaly matter which you do as you can enter a CPL with an ICAO PPL. I know of at least one school that is UK run and has a base in Oxfordshire, they take you right through all the FAA ratings to CFI/CFII/MEI but also includes training to JAA standards to allow you to take the JAA IR conversion on your return to the UK as well as your ATPLs. They are quoting £28.500 and that includes 8 months accomadation!

http://www.usajaa.co.uk

From website:

"This program is aimed at taking the candidate from zero hours flight time to over 1500 hours total time to include:-

FAA ATP
JAR frozen ATPL
FAA Flight Instructor with single engine, multi engine and instrument instructor ratings."


Included
All aircraft rental1
Flight and Ground Instruction2
All FAA test fees
JAR ATPL Groundschool Course3
FAA to JAR CPL & IR conversion4
Eight Months Accommodation
Appropriate VAT and local taxes
Instructor Uniform6
Training books and materials

Not Included
Accommodation after the first eight months
Aviation Medicals
US Visa processing fee (approx £115)
Flights to and from the United States
JAA professional examination & licensing fees
General Living Expenses
Personal Flying Equipment
Personal Flying Equipment
TSA fee (approx. $160)

So not a bad deal if you can take the time off, unfotunately not an option for me!!! And as George says when you factor in items, such as food, beers, etc. that you would be paying for in the UK anyway it looks pretty reasonable.

Julian.

[Slopey]

I've just started out on my PPL and I'm intending to go to the US to do most of it - on the costs front:

As you say:

JAA PPL 45 hour course = £3000
10 Hours extra lesson's on top of the 45 = £500
Air fare = £300
Accomadation = £400
Food/Drink = £300
Visa's = £100
3 - 4 hour Check test at local club = £400

That's a grand total of £5000!!

But in the UK - certainly at Aberdeen where I'm based it would be:

45 Hour Course = £6075
Don't forget landing fees, none in the US, £16 a pop at Aberdeen :(
10 Hours extra lessons on top of the 45 = £1350
Food/Drink = £300 (still have to drink and eat!)

That's a grand total of £7725!!

So US £5000
and UK £7725

The other major benefit for doing it in the US (to my mind) is the time factor. I know for a fact that if I try and do it over the course of a year, I'd have trouble arranging more than 1 hour every 2 weeks because of my working schedule. Couple that with the crap weather up in Scotland for a large part of the year, and it becomes a no-brainer.

Luckily, I've got the time off work and I'm trying to tie it into a visit to a stateside office which would save me another £400 in flights.

I plan to do another 5-6 hours instruction once I'm back in the UK to get up to speed on the slightly different procs - the key thing for me is that I'll be able to dedicate a whole month to it, and can afford to hour build for an additional week when Im out there for around £45 per hour, which is a third of the price of the UK.

[scameron77]

I chose the US of A rather than Europe because of cost and I was assured that I would be trained within a FAA environment to JAA standards. That promise made to me has been proven to be true, if it wasn't this website would be the first place I'd air it. I was in the same position as you lot are exactly a year ago and have no problem shopping anyone I encounter who pulls a fast one on me and my money, after all I am Scottish and have national stereotypes to uphold.

My training from 0 to ATP & ATPL(f) licences will works out at around £18,000 ish after my accomodation is paid and renummeraiton for instructing. With living expenses, £6k for on a budget, £12k living comfortably. I chose the latter.

Only thing is I might not have the 'executive elevator' to a airline at the end of my training that some big European schools we all know of promise/boast of/spin/and in some cases actually deliver, however I hope that 1,500 hours in busy airspace and CFI/CFII & MEI licences may grease me into that first gucci job.

Stephen

NB - KLGB is class Delta airspace, the only Bravo in the basin is LAX. However I have been told Long Beach is the 13th busiest airport in the world in terms of aircraft movements, not 100% sure on that one tho :)

[TJF97]

I'm still not convinced it really is that much cheaper if all you are after is a JAA PPL, Hey prove me wrong!!

Scameron77 your in a lucky position fella where you have moved lock stock over to the States, I'm not so lucky! I would have to keep flying over to complete a course/licence and then fly back which adds up. Plus I know I would have to pay for food and drink regardless of where I am but I also have to pay a mortgage so adding accommodation on top dosn't help!!

The thing that puts me off about doing my PPL in the states and in particular Florida is that all the UK schools don't seem to rate the training. Do you think I'd be better off if I went one of the schools in LA or even Canada??

[silverknapper]

It is a subject which has been done to death over the years, both here and on the private flying boards. There are many opinions about, and a search will reveal some interesting, some boring and indeed some heated arguments.
I think you're right. Do just do a PPL, with the intention to fly here you should train here. Airfares, accomodation etc all add up. Also there is no substitute for being at the flying club you'll continue to use once you have a licence. Get to know everyone and you'll end up going on a lot of trips and perhaps even getting freebies whenever aircraft go on maintenance.
The guy who reckons he is saving £30k on a commercial licence in the states is talking rubbish. People who have done it all frequently come home and say they saved a negligible amount overall. I know a few guys who have done it and they all wish they hadn't.
Your training is important, don't skimp on it. You are dead right in my opinion, stay here.

Slopey

Highland aero club at Inverness. JAA PPL £4000, no landing fees. Someone just completed in 3 weeks (much better Wx than ABZ).

[scameron77]

I agree with slopey it has been done to death, and heated arguments do end up taking over, no doubt caused by comments like 'that guy is talking rubbish'.

The long and short of it is, I'm being trained in some of the busiest airspace in the world. I can buzz about at 4,500 over LAX, you can't even fly near London as its class Alpha. I've looked at UK charts and yes, at this stage in my training they seem daunting compared to US sectionals, too busy and too many restrictions but I don't don't doubt that when it comes to sitting my JAA CPL/IR at Tayflight after 1,500 hours in the States, instructing everything from 152's to Seneca's, 172's with glass cockpits and Diamond twins (again with glass cockpits) and having completed my 14 ATPL exams by distance learning, I'll have the ability to absorb it.

By the time I return to the UK and complete my CPL/IR I will have spent £30,000 total, I will have 1,500 hours and I will be as happy as a pig in sh!t.

£4000 is a great price for a JAA PPL, TJF97 I'd certainly look into that especially if you want to do all your flying in the UK, you've also got the best time of year to do it in terms of the weather and getting continious flying. Accomodation in the UK is no less than £30 in a B&B. Also flights to Inverness are around £250 from Heathrow. However there is nothing to do in Inverness, except look at the pretty scenery so that'll aid studying.

I was in a postion when I moved here that I had no ties back home, only a house which is now on the market. However I'm going from 0 to the full shebang so there is no way I could have done it other than moving out here. The type of training you undertake depends on your situation, funds and needs.

TFJ97, I'm unsure at what level of licence you want to get to.

Stephen

[sk8erboi]

also flights to Inverness are around £250 from Heathrow
Or £60 from luton or gatwick.

However there is nothing to do in Inverness
Bollocks.

Will be interesting to see just how easy you find this route, and indeed if it works out as advertised. Guy I used to instruct with went out on one of these programs. Came home asap. But I guess you know it all Scameron.

[scameron77]

I will never profess to knowing it all, however I know what I've experienced so far. I will however not stoop to patronising people on this thread.

I stand corrected about the flights, I was going on BA fairs as I remembered them. I forgot about Pikeyjet.

Second, if someone want to complete a PPL in three weeks, its in their advantage that there is little to do, less distrations as there is a hell of a lot to absorb.

Inverness is a pretty town with amazing scenery nearby, however its not London's Wst End, Las Vegas or Soho in New York. Please on't inform the Highlands and Islands Tourist Board of my coments of I may get taken out by an elite sniper.

Third, I've been here since Januay, I'm loving it, all aspects, the mates I've met, the flying, the women, the sun and the US of A. If I come home it'll be for blue extra chewing gum, Motherwell in a cup final or for a mates wedding.

I've never experienced anyone starting a program out here and leaving.

Everything is working out fine, the owner of the company is now also my friend, I'm sure I'll be fine and dandy.

Stephen

[titchuk]

i dunno if this helps anyone but from what i have heard is that because alot of people were travelli8ng to america to train as a pilot the us are being more tight on it now and are not letting as as many people, not 2 sure weather that is true or not but yea i got told by some pilots that it is actually cheaper to train in the us then over here but lyk another person said it depends which for

also another place to think about going to is new zealand apparently it is cheap to train out there but anyway good luck with things and when your rich and a fully qualified pilot u can help me out! lol

gd luck with everything
chris

[B2N2]

Time spend (or wasted) is an important factor and the aircraft rentals are a lot cheaper in the US.
The more training the higher the savings.
You can do zero to CPL ME IR in the US in 4 months for $35,000 to $40,000.
After conversions back in Europe you should still come out on top.

[scameron77]

I think the long and short of it is, what floats my boat might not do it for someone else. If you're planning on taking the odd flight at weekends and bank holidays around the UK, do your PPL at home.

However if you want to go down the career route, I can't really argue with the US. I'm very lucky that I did my homework on PPRuNe last year - a few of the other Europeans I know out here aren't as happy as me, especially when they compare what I'm getting to what they have paid, however overall when they look at the US and the UK/Spain they still feel justified by coming out here.

I would also echo the comment made by B2N2, people come out here all the time from the UK to do FAA IR's for around $5,000 then convert back home for a fraction of the price of a JAA IR, I'm not 100% but you might actually end up with more hours and two licences, opening up November registered aircraft in addition to Golf.

[XL5]

Actually, the most extremes of weather are found in the US, as are the most congested airports - try flying into Chicago during snow time or Atlanta in a thunderstorm if you don't believe me although as a neophyte PPL you really shouldn't be in these types of environment. I welcome mixing with you on the KLGB approach but there are limits!

Acquisition of handling skills is the paramount goal and the wise realise that the laws of physics have little respect for nor pay attention to national boundaries - in other words, go where the flying is cheapest with an eye on the conversion process should you intend to return from whence you came. A few hours back home with a local flight instructor is all that's required to become familiar with parochial protocol and fetishes.

[TJF97]

Scameron77,
Initially I've set myself a goal of just obtaining a PPL. I'm not sure if I'm going to take it any further after that, I'm getting too old to change careers (29 years old!!)

I've come up with four locations I'd consider training, two in the UK and two in the States. I'd appretiate any views on them;

USA;

EFT, Florida

UK;

1) Stapleford Flying Club, (Because its my local FTO)

2) Midland Air Training, Coventry (Very good price for training on PA28 and just round the corner from evil in-laws!!!)

Regards

Simon

[Slopey]

Highland aero club at Inverness. JAA PPL £4000, no landing fees. Someone just completed in 3 weeks (much better Wx than ABZ).

I'll look into that also (I'm keeping an open mind on the whole thing), but problems from my end are going to be;

1 being based in Aberdeen - 2.5 hr drive north on that damn road

2 our head office is there so I won't be left alone, althought I might be able to wangle something with that.

3 I'd need to stay there for the duration as I'm no way going to commute (see 1), and B&B's around £30 pn, plus subsistance, you're looking at another £1000.

But I'll look into it. The no landing fees are interesting, the £16 at Aberdeen will be doing my head in when I get onto circuits.

Actually, I see they do a 5 hour thing for £499, I might go up and try that out and see what i think, if anything, it'll add another 5 hours instruction and into the log book for £175 less than Aberdeen.

[GusHoneybun]

Slopey


The Gunn in Ardersier (just next to the airport) does a Bed only rate of about 15 squid a night. This was last year, so it might be worth checking. The room is the size of a matchbox, but is clean and above a pub!.
PM me if you want any more info on the school. I used to work there full time before getting my hands on something altogether more sexy than a tomahawk.

[Slopey]

Thanks, will do :)

[scameron77]

TJF97,

Mate, I'm 28 in October, however I don't have a significant other, so wasn't an issue. Read a post by 'Pilot Pete' about his story, very inspirational.

If you plan to get a PPL for UK use then learn in the UK just for the primacy issue (things learned first will stay with you). Be aware that the UK summer, although crappy in places still offers the best chance you have of attaining your licence with minimal distruption due to weather. Also closer to home the beter, you have a lot to remember, a intensive course does offer you the chance to be immersed in flying.

In answer to your questions:

USA;

1) EFT - I contacted them last year, no repsonse, not impressed as I was looking at their prof pilot scheme.

UK;

1) Stapleford Flying Club - I looked at them too when I lived in London as they were one of the closest to me, decided against it when I looked into the USA. Good tie-ins with Astraeus, but as long as no 'flip-flops' fly into buildings in the next couple of years the industry should be bouyant enough to pay for Type Ratings for new pilots. However you aren't interesed in going that much further as yet.

2) Midland Air Training, Coventry - Can't comment, no experience, just do a search and bear in mind for every good comment on a place there are 2 negative, just that way of the world. However I do beleive 'where there is smoke there is fire' so do your homework. In-Laws and PPL in 3 weeks, are you a pain junkie?

[glidehigh]

I've got a mate who just came back from the USA having got the full JAR PPL in about 5 weeks. His actual flying is very good, but when i asked him about his RT he hadnt a clue, as the little GA field he was at accepted anything said over the radio, even if it wasn't good RT. The airspace practise in the South East UK I got flying from Cranfield doing my PPL was definately worth the extra bit of money, as I am confident flying through controlled airspace round EGGW and EGSS, whereas my friend who paid only a few hundred less to fly in the states wouldn't even consider trying to get a zone transit through some Class D. It's your choice, but Cranfield worked for me, £5000 for a JAR PPL, for everything.:ok:

[scameron77]

I'd agree on the whole American RT is pretty poor in comparrison to UK RT

It could be argued that its maybe a little too rigid back home. But here 'errm, Seneca no sorry, Cessna 121BM, 3,250 feet with Juliet Information, looking to land at the airport, needing taxi progressive upon landing, do you have a pilot shop? Thanks', also on tower frequency 'Just cleared the active runway and it'd be nice if I could taxi back?' isn't that uncommon.

I'm lucky to be training in very busy airspace with Bravo, Charlie and Delta airports almost touching each other. I'm also being instucted by a CFI/CFII/MEI with both JAA and FAA instructor ratings. So my RT will be to UK standard even though I'll have to do an RT exam before flying iin the UK.

Essentially what I'm saying is that as long as you do your homework with respect to the location of the school and the background of the instructor then you shouldn't have any issues. Just identify where you are going to do the majority of your flying and plan around that. A £3000 PPL in the US might end up costing another £3000 in the UK when you have to undo bad habits and bring the standards up if you don't choose where you go with enough consideration.

[IRISHPILOT]

well,what's wrong with other JAA states?

Here in CZ, our PPL is around 4100 GBP, beers 60p.

Have a look at Bemoair (http://www.bemoair.cz),
i have some good personal experience with them.

All English, a small, personal CAA to deal with, examiner on staff. And the Zlins are fun too.

JAA initial class 1 medical: 110 GBP

[Slopey]

Ok, I'm looking again at costs, many thanks to all the posters so far. I've now come up with the following:

On a like for like basis I've worked out accurate costs for some scenarios which others my find helpful.

Standard items in addition to the actual flying time itself I've listed as


Exams - estimated at £140
Food - estimated at £200 pw
Club Membership
R/T Exam - approx £100
Medical - approx £100
Skills Test Examiner Fee - approx £150
CAA Licence Fee - £146
Return Lessons/Checkride - 3 to 5 hrs at ABZ added to non ABZ options
Loss of Earnings - if I take unpaid leave for the US option (the others I may be able to work into my schedule - ie go into the office if the Wx is crap)
Flights and Accomodation as necessary (UK based accomo priced circa £35 pn to get an idea, I'm sure there'll be cheaper)


With a like for like comparison and additional costs where necessary, for a PPL with Night rating (55 hours instruction - no sim), the scores on the doors come out at (obviously, this has a Scottish focus as I'm in Aberdeen):

Note these include Acommodation and travel so don't take them as the actual package costs! They're specific to me!

UK, Aberdeen - £8733
UK, Tayside - £7903
UK, Inverness - £7006
US, Florida - £6353

The US cost also assumes that I'd be down £1000 on loss of earnings if I had to take unpaid leave as I don't want to use all availiable hols. I can head to the office for scrubbed days for both Inv and Abz so thats not included.

Aberdeen are expensive due to the £16 landing fee and the lack of a publicised PPL package, I'll quiz them about that next time I'm there and see if I can cut a deal.

But if I used more of my holiday allowance to reduce the £1000, or remove it completely, for me to get the PPL and Night in the US would come out £3,380 - £2,380 cheaper, including 5 hours instruction back at ABZ when I get back.

That's a lot of cash. The Inverness option is more attractive at only £700 more than US assuming the £1000 loss of earnings.

However - Option 2 - is get the NPPL.

Realistically, Im going to be flying VFR only within the UK anyway (although given the winter up here I would like a Night rating). If I run the same exercise for NPPL at 32 hours and no medical costs, it comes out at:

Inverness - £5152
Aberdeen - £5989
Tayside - £6159

So ultimately, that may be my best option. Hope that's of use to some one aside from me - it's amazing how the exam, medical, licence and other costs add up beyond "Get your PPL for XXX" ;)

[strafer]

Slopey,

I don't know how you got a figure of £6,353 for a PPL in Florida, especially as Concorde has been discontinued. Here's what it cost me for a PPL & night rating at OBA:

Course: Now around £2,900?
Flight: £250
4 hours post-PPL UK training at WLAC - £440
A kneeboard - £30
Err,
That's it

Everything else excepting JAA medical was included, no exam fees, study equipment free, gratis bikes for making your way to the airfield etc. I didn't add the cost of food and accomodation as accomodation was included and I also like to eat food in England. (The money I saved by only going out on the lash one night in three weeks, was a bonus). Admittedly, you now have to add the cost of going to London and getting a visa. But there are many reasons for going to London anyway, not least a Class One if you need it.

Only fools and horses fall for the 'UK PPL is best' bollox.

[Slopey]

I'm not falling for it, it was an accurate costing of the trip.

For example - assuming I'm going Oct-Nov and flying from Glasgow (although from Abz down to London is about the same):

I get:

test
£2,795 45 Hours PPL
£ 328 +5 Hours additional (in case I don't make it + night in 45)
£ 609 Flights - Glasgow to US - Continental
£ 0 Accomodation Included (shared)
£ 0 Exams Inc
£ 600 Food/Drink etc while out there
£ 146 CAA Licence Fee
£ 675 Return Lessons/Checkride (5hrs at Aberdeen)
£1,000 Loss of Earnings - if I take unpaid leave

£ 6153


I take it an Verbal R/T exam is taken as part of the skills test? If not then I had £100 in the budget for that.

Also, I only see reference to an FAA medical - I'm presuming I'd need a CAA Class 2 also? (which is why I've got 6353 in the below ie +£100 allowance for that and the R/T).

As I said earlier, the £1k earnings loss is particular to me if I'm away for 4 weeks - if I do it in the UK I can probably avoid taking the full allowance by heading to an office on bad weather days.

I'm including everything to get an accurate comparision - £2,795 may be the price of the course itself, but there are significant additional costs to consider. I've factored the same costs in for all the examples so I'm comparing like for like.

[TJF97]

I've just sat and worked out a figure:

Course = £2795
5 Additional Hours Tuition = £328
Visa = $100 (£53)
Flight = £333 (LGW to Orlando 1/11/05 - 28/11/05 ebookers.com)
Return Check Test in UK = £550
CAA Licence Fee = £146
CAA Class Two Medical = £20 (You need to know where to look!!)
Food & Drink = £600

Total = £4825

This figure dosn't include car hire

If you need a cheap medical contact a local LGV training school, they should have the list of doctors who do medicals for the DVLA. Its very similar to the CAA medical, I paid £20 last year at a doctors in Kent.

On paper is is starting to look cheaper BUT in reality it could be a whole different experience!!!

[strafer]

Slopes,

let's forget the fact that you think £609 is the cheapest flight from UK-USA and that you have added on 5 hours for some reason and that you work in a job where you get less than 3 weeks holiday a year. Why are you (and others) adding on food and drink? Are you intending to fast for the duration of your PPL in the UK?

To answer your specific questions:
1) The R/T verbal is a separate exam and is included.
2) You need a FAA student medical (included) for your training and a CAA class 2 (not included) for license issue. Although as the CAA medical and license costs are identical for whatever method of training you choose, I did not include them.

PS A mate of mine on my course was from Aberdeen. He now has around 200 hours but hasn't been near Aberdeen airport in his life due to their high costs.

[Slopey]

£609 is the cheapest I can find from Scotland to the US. Yeah, ok, I can go via London via BMI which would save about £200 which is the way I'd do it, but then I'll have another trip to London to visit the embassy, so that then becomes marginal.

The food/drink is included in that list as I've included it in all of my scenarios - compared with the UK options its a benefit on the US ones due to the exchange rate and the lower cost of living over there.

I get 28 days holiday a year, inc public, so removing chrimbo (which works out well this year) leaves me with 25 (hol year starts 1st Oct). So 5 weeks. I need 2 weeks out of that to keep the wife happy, so that leaves me with 3 weeks. Depending on the Wx, getting the PPL could take 4+, so I was estimating 5 weeks total which is 2 weeks unpaid leave. Given the costs I'd hate to be unlucky with the weather or worse, not pass, and have to come back rather than stay on for another week and get finished.

1) Ok, cool :)
2) Thought so, again, I've included them to get an up front idea of additional costs. There are only 2 CAA approved medical examiners in my area as far as I can see, I'll check costs again.

On Aberdeen - Tell me about it, although my tuition there so far has been excellent, it's hellish expensive.

All in all, the US definately appears to be the cheapest option.

[GoldenMonkey]

Just adding my tupence in here, although not directly related to the last few posts. If you are seriously thinking of going to the states to 'cram' in your course over a few weeks, I would urge you to try and take the 7 ground exams in the UK before you go. That will take a large strain off your training, allowing you to concentrate more on the flying and enable you to get more sleep due to less revising.
Of course there are arguments for studying the theory along side the practical training. But I feel you stand more chance of getting through in a time constrained manner (3-4 weeks) if you have those theory papers out the way first.

Have a goodun what ever you choose. :D

[Julian]

GMonkey has a very good point, do your exams before you go! I did and found it a whole lot easier, a lot of the guys were stuck in their rooms at night cramming for exams whilst I took it easy and concentrated on the flying...

Couple of things, mainly in relation to TJFs breakdown.

- Never needed 5 hours training on return! Just done the club checkout which was an hour which you would have to do on joining a club anyway.

- Never needed a car! Both the hotel and the flight school I have used run a free minibus/pickup service so unless you are going to do some major touring you wont need one - but anyway if you are then you may as well fly yourself and build those hours :D

- Confused as to what "Return Check Test in UK = £550" is? If this is the GFT thats notmally included in the price so you do it in the US. Retakes for partials were $250 for the PPL if remember rightly.

The other to remember is that its also one hell of an experience flying over in the US. I go back for at least one flying holiday each year though more if I can get the time off work. Only down side is their beer is cr@p so end up paying through nose for Guiness which is a half decent pint!

Julian.

[strafer]

Taking all or some of your exams before you go to the States, will certainly give you an easier time & a chance to have some holiday also.

However, the point of this thread is the cheapest way to gain a PPL and you are unlikey to get much if any, of a discount from the course price for having done the exams. Certainly not enough to make up for the money you've spent on tuition, books, study aids & exam fees in the UK. All of which are included in most US courses.

Doing everything in three weeks means long hours and hard work. But, I had a great time.

[TJF97]

GoldenMonkey,
Sorry should have explained myself better for you, I was thinking worst case scenario when I came up with my figures. It may be the case that after 45 hours the school will say/suggest an additional amount of tuition ie; 5 hours is required.

Secondly the 5 hour check test in the UK referred to when you go to your local club, I've read several posts on here where people have been required to have lengthy check rides with the local club before they can hire a plane because the club may be concerned over the standard of training received in the USA and in particular the R/T procedure. The 5 hour figure is again worst case scenario.

Having spent several hours yesterday going through the figures it appears the saving is roughly £1500 - £2000 over doing a similar course in the UK. So I've decided that I'm going to take a few lessons over here and then go to the states to complete the PPL. The way I see it is that I will be able to practice the UK R/T procedure and get used to flying in UK airspace, then complete the course in a much shorter time.

My next decision is to decide which JAA school to go to!! I've got the choice down to three, two are in Florida (O.B.A and E.F.T) and the third (whose name I'm not allowed to mention) and is not in Florida. I'm actually swaying towards the non-Florida option but then one of the schools in Florida includes the night rating!

Decisions decisons..............

[Slopey]

TJF97 - Yep, I'm in the same boat and looking at the same schools you are - if you wan't to compare notes, drop me a PM as that's probably starting to get off topic for here, especially concering they-who-must-not-be-named. ;)

[TJF97]

Slopey, I've sent you a PM

[Julian]

TJF,

Aha yes I have heard that before but to be honest you will find that those clubs are just after your money. I have heard of one guy who when he told the instructor he had learnt in the US was told he would need " at least 5 hours extra training" BEFORE he had even flown with him. The guy held an IR at the time as well as a PPL and I believe he turned around and walked away!

As regards RT procedure, spend an hour or so ground school brushing up if required but to behonest I found the transition pretty easy.

Other items to factor in with US:
- No club membership fees.
- No landing fees.
- No approach fees (though not applicable to PPL students).

On the down side I have just been looking at flight myself as wanted to go to CA again in Sept but they are quoting £750 RTN!!! I think I may be delaying until Oct when all the kiddies have gone back to school and the prices drop again! (I paid £350 lasy yr to go in November and have got there for £200 before).

I have never factored in lost wages into my calculations as if I did I would never take any leave :}

Julian

[TJF97]

Julian,
The cheapest I found for a ticket to San Diego was £350 going in November.

[GuinnessQueen]

Yes I agree, wrong to judge that someone needs at least 5 hrs training before the instructor has even flown with the PPL holder.

However, anyone who has experienced both JAA and FAA trainng systems (or UK and USA based JAA systems) cannot deny that there are major 'Procedural' differences (i.e the flying skills are the same, but the operational procedures differ).

If you want to fly in the UK after completing an American based PPL (whether that's JAA or FAA) it is prudent to get some sort of differences training. Otherwise you may find yourself unable to do an overhead join, or ask for a QDM for just 2 examples!

Whilst getting the cheapest deal is often appealing - the consequencies may prove rather expensive!

GQ (who has trained under both JAA and FAA)

[TJF97]

Well here's an update to my situation:

After spending what seemed to be ages looking around at schools in the UK and schools in the States my fed up girlfriend told me "Just book it and stop talking about it" So that was it I decided that I'd go off to the states, San Diego to be precise.

So I booked off the whole of November with work, contacted the school in San Diego and they told me to register with Sevis and the TSA. I then got a visa after losing the will to live at the American Embassey in London (waited 5 hours!!)

However this is where the complications started, I then find a club in the Oxfordshire that charges virtually the same for flight training as a US school would! There is virtually a couple of hundred quid difference between this club and a US school once you add your air fare, under £4000!

(Before anyone asks I'm afraid membership is limited to service personnel, sorry)

Personally I would prefer to train in the UK, but what concerns me most is the weather especially in November. I was supposed to have a couple of lessons today but they were cancelled due to the weather, could this be a sign of things to come??

So I'm in a right old dilemma now! Do I go to the States or Stay in the UK and sleep in my own bed at night??

TJF97

[Shaft109]

I've been looking around this thread having the same dilemmma myself. UK or US? Well i'm lucky that i got 42 hours from the space cadets on the Grob 109b but of course this doesn't count in the eyes of the CAA so I just said sod it and decided to do the bloody thing out there. (In San Diego).



When finished i'll write a post on the pros and cons comparing them.

P.S. I also decided to have a 2 week holiday afterwards to look around Southern CA.
I mean San Diego or Barton?

P.P.S. Nowt wrong with Barton but why not go the whole hog and have a totally different experience!

[Kengineer-130]

Interesting thread, some very good points made :ok: , I am off to the USA, FL, very soon to do my JAA PPL, and I made my choice on the following:

1) £ price, at £2800 all in, inc all textbooks, exam fees, skills tests, TSA and sevis fee's. JAA medical, accomodation, 45Hrs, and night rating, it can't be too bad!!!

2) weather- has got to be a better bet than UK weather all year round!

3) the "block learning" idea, ie spent 4 weeks living and breathing flying, in the UK you have distractions like work, women ( or men if you are a member of the fairer sex ;) ), beer, time etc, and inevitably end up covering old ground as its been a week/ 2 weeks from your last lesson.

4) even though its a intensive pakage, and bound to be hard work, its still a bit of an experience and a small hobby holiday.

My flight is £372 return, and food/drink I recon £10 a day should cover it easily :ok: so, working on the average UK PPL package of £5000-£6000, this still leaves me around £2000 "change" to do checkout rides and additional flying training should I need it,and I intend to grab a UK instructor and fly for a bit to make sure I am happy in UK airspace when I return :ok:

I hope I havn't been blinkered, I will post a report up when I get back, and If I have neglected to include anything please tell me :ok:

[B2N2]

Here's a little gem;

If you have completed your JAA written exams at home,
Hold a JAA medical,

You can go to any school in the USA, train for the US PPL, pass the checkride with a US examiner, then go and find a JAA examiner who can do a conversion-skill test and an RT test.
Leaves you with both FAA and JAA licenses and no need to go to a JAA certified school.
Any questions PM please and I can give you more details.

:ok:

[TJF97]

Thanks for all the replies, although no one gave me any advice about my dilemma, go to the States or stay over here :confused:

Although to help me make my mind up I've had two lesson cancelled this week due to the weather around Oxford

Kengineer-130, good luck and let me know how you get on in Florida.

Shaft109, I've sent you a PM

B2N2, I was vaguley aware of that little gem, I may look into it.:*

[Frank Furillo]

Thre is of course annother way.....
you go to the USA take your FAA PPL which comes with a Night Rating, you will need this for CPL anyway.
Are you going to take your JAA CPL???? if so you do not need a JAA PPL. In fact as the FAA License is an ICAO License you dont need a JAA PPL to take your JAA ATPL exams or JAA CPL Test.
However if you want a JAA PPL you can always build 100 Hours in the USA, Take AIr Law,Human Factors and the R/T Exam then you just need to sit the skill test.
Thats what I did, it is legal as I am now a fATPL Holder.

This route is somewhat cheaper and the FAA written exam is also eaiser.
FF

[yyzdub]

TJF97

Having gone through this dilemma myself and now a number of years on, I've managed to hear a lot of other people have experienced the same. My advice - do your training in Europe. You want to fly in Europe - train in Europe and believe me, once everything is said in done, you aren't talking a huge savings if any when you convert.

Best of luck whatever you choose.

[TJF97]

Considering that I have got the whole of November off out of the three lessons I've had this week, two have been cancelled due to the weather. So what are the chances of the weather in November being any better in the uk?

[TJF97]

Another lesson cancelled today due to the weather! Thats six lessons cancelled in the last three weeks now.

I'd really love to stay in the UK and do the PPL but because of time and money I think I'm going to have to go over to the States and then get my Club Instructor to sort out the gaps when I get back.

Cheese

TJF97

[TJF97]

Two more lessons cancelled this week due to the weather!! I'm beginning to sound like a broken record!!

I havn't had the heart to tell my club instructor that I'm going to the States yet, he'll probably go mad! I was going to tell him on Sunday and ask if he'll sort out all the "little issues" when I get back, ie R/T procedure.

TJF97

[Bahn-Jeaux]

Ok, heres the price advertised from one of my local clubs,

JAR approved PPL aeroplane 45 hour course £4140.00

Personal equipment, extra hours, extra landings, tests and exams extra.

Wondering how much these extras will amount to.

Another club offers the 45 hour course at £6000 with the following info posted.

In conclusion, your Pilots Licence will cost approximately £6,000 based on our 45 hour course including equipment. Your first objective is to fly Solo, say 10-15 hours at a cost of some £1750

How long does it take to qualify as a pilot?

Continuity is the key. Many students have completed their Licence in less than a month with others earning theirs part-time over 12 months. The majority of xxxxxxx students complete their flying course within the 45 hour syllabus - the UK national average being some 75 hours.

The cheapest Licence is one which is achieved in the minimum time.......45 hours.

Subject only to a one hour Assessment Flight with the Chief Flying Instructor, xxxxxxx will GUARANTEE your flying course in the minimum time.... OR WE PAY! YES.... up to 10 hours free training to ensure the completion of your full-time Pilot Licence Course.

Which one represents the best value or will they both end up around the same.
This question isnt about US training being cheaper, just the value of this in the UK

[Frank Furillo]

Ask yourself this question... are you after just passing the test? or do you wish to be a safe pilot? It is very easy to advertise first time pass etc or we pay deals. they are not always the best option. What you learn here will be with you for the rest of your flying career.
FF