Airbus survey

[oicur12]

I was would like to gain an understanding of how other airbus operators operate the airbus, namely A330 but also A320 as most issues are similar. I have always found it difficult to judge how close my outfit is to the manufacturer’s recommendation.

I would love to get a cross section of responses to see where my outfit stands.

1. Pre departure, are you required to read all fmc wpt tracks and distances.

2. During start, are you required to leave your hand on the engine master switch.

3. What is the pf correct response to the before takeoff checklist item “packs”.

4. Do you switch the brake fans on after every landing or only when you get ecam brakes hot.


I know some of these questions sound odd but I suspect my airline has it wrong on some of these items but I have no way of proving it.

[7373]

A320/321 Operation in the UK

1. No, only check waypoints against plog & enter wind data where sig difference from last waypoint.
2. No, only when carrying out a 'Manual' Start. Infact it is frownded upon to have hand on engine masters for a normal start.
3. Checklist says 'Checked' but often pilots say "Packs On, feed by Apu/Engines or Packs Off"
4. No, only with Ecam message.

Hope that is of some assistance.

[Localiser]

1. No, just to check they all agree with what on the plate before we brief.

2. No, just manual start.

3. "OFF". SOP in my company to always do packs off take-off.

4. No hard and fast rule. Tend to switch them on with a "BRAKES HOT" ECAM caution. However, if one of us remembers and checks the wheels page we can and do put them on before any caution is given. A lot of people let the brakes cool to much which leads to too much brake wear when taxying back out again. I undertand the optimum temperature for best braking is approx 150 degrees.

Hope this helps,

LOC :ok:

[Carnage Matey!]

A320 only:

1: No, just check they are in the FMGC for SIDs. Still check tracks & distances for rest of the route.

2: No

3: Never did packs off take offs so wasn't in the checklist!

4: Only when the ECAM says so, or just prior to turning on to stand if we anticipate a hot brakes warning during turnaround.

[KC-10 Driver]

A320:

1. Only for any portion of the flight involving Class II navigation (ie. outside of the range of radio navigation aids).

2. No -- only for manual starts. We are taught that it is quite bad to manually abort an auto start, controlled by the FADEC. Generally, let the FADEC handle the start, and the pilot should follow ECAM procedures. There are exceptions for situations which might not be recognized by ECAM nor controlled by FADEC -- such as excessive vibration, etc.

3. "On", "On APU", or "Off".

4. Only switch on the brake fan when directed by ECAM. However, will turn it on momentarily before pulling into the gate area, so to blow out any loose brake dust (which is toxic and a health hazard to ramp staff) in anticipation of possible Brakes Hot ECAM while at the gate. I also understand the optimum brake temperature is about 150 C.

[AnQrKa]

1. All leg track and distance is read before push.
2. Yes. In case of abort.
3. My outfit has modified the response to on/off - no option for "on APU" despite the fact that we do packs on apu takeoffs. Silly really.
4. most just switch the fans on after landing regardless of brake temps, even before ecam brakes hot.

[TopBunk]

Another UK A320 Operator:

1. Check SID agrees with chart, check en-route waypoints only (and enter significant winds*), check expected STAR against chart

2. No (but I do as airmanship!)

3. Not c/list item so not applicable as normally Flexing to close on max anyway with packs on (luxury, I know)

4. Brake fans not fitted to our 320-100 and -200CFM fleet so can't - does concentrate the mind on hot summer days, both on landing and taxi-out on 40 minute turnarounds. On brake fan equipped -IAE enginedaircraft, will usually not switch on (unless very high/mismatched temps) until at least 3 -5 minutes after landing to allow temps to stabilise and just before turning onto stand (so as not to eject brake dust onto ramp workers for Health and Safety reasons. If aircraft nightstopping then will tend to leave fans off to aid optimal brake cooling. Fans, when used, usually switched off prior to vacating flight deck/before transit walkround/when below 150C/when remembered!

[Feather Boa]

AnQrKa
With regard to #3, why is KA's response "silly". The question asked by the C/list is "are the packs on or off". It serves as a reminder that the packs are on or off, who cares whether they are fed from Eng or APU!
Re Brakes the Co SOP's are to wait at least 5 mins after landing or coming onto stand before switching on the fans, unless brake brakes are going to exceed 500 degs or we're on a short turnaround.

Fx

[AnQrKa]

Feather,

When taking off with packs being supplied by APU, there is no correct response (using KA sops) to the before takeoff checklist and more importantly there is no reminder that you may have the incorrect configuration. How would you respond to the checklist if the APU was supplying the packs?

“Who cares whether they are fed from Eng or APU!” You should care, especially if your RTOW was calculated on improved climb. Forgetting to select APU bleed to on will void your calculations.

Regarding brakes, the FCOM 3 clearly states “ . . . .and high temperatures”. It is becoming common practice for guys to switch them on 5 minutes after every landing regardless of temp or ECAM master caution.

I always giggle when folks switch the fans on when the aircraft will be terminating overnight.

[critical winge]

Hi, Emirates 332 343 345

Ans

I would love to get a cross section of responses to see where my outfit stands.

A: As honest as I can be, within my ability and knowledge.

1. Pre departure, are you required to read all fmc wpt tracks and distances.

A: Only read the SID in the way you describe. Otherwiswe no way, would take too long. We use the stored routes from MCDU menu page 2 and copy the active. Now check all the flt plan as is on the written flt plan and away you go. We can of course (airbus) put in a route DXBLHR4 for eg and the whole route loads and we check the route as already stated.

2. During start, are you required to leave your hand on the engine master switch.

No. FADEC looks after the start even to the point of doing a restart if required.

3. What is the pf correct response to the before takeoff checklist item “packs”.

332 The packs are ON, 343 / 345 OFF.

4. Do you switch the brake fans on after every landing or only when you get ecam brakes hot.

After 5 mins on the ground despite the Brakes Hot ECAM.

Hope that Helped CW

[oicur12]

Very interesting answers – and thanks for taking the time.

Some more,

1 What engine out acceleration altitude do you use and in sim excercises what tolerance is applied? Do you accelerate during a turning EOSID or do you maintain V2 plus 10 until turn complete?

2 Are you required to hard tune nav aids on the rad nav page for app and dep?

3 What computerized flight planning system do you use.

4 Do you use Airbus LPC laptop computers for take off data calculation or w/b etc.

[AnQrKa]

1 Eo accel at 1500 above. accel as soon as height reached. makes for a BIG turn radius sometimes.

2 yes. app and dep nav aids must be hard tunes - even when gps primary which makes no sense.

3 a thing called rodos. have used eagle before. and also jepp.

4 no computer but we have a bucketload of manuals in the closet. lots of folders. manuals. books. paperwork a plenty.

[oicur12]

And some more queries of interest to me,

1. Do you guys use manual trimsheets or computer trim sheets?

2. Another odd one - do you have a standard call of "1000 to altitude" or something similar from the pnf when the autopilot is engaged. This seems to me to be an irrelevent call unless handflying.

3. Do you respond to the aural altitude alert when it goes off when handflying. Our sop is to ignore it which seems to me to break the golden rule of always acknowledging a warning, caution, attention getter etc.

[idg]

oicur12,

Computer trimsheets at main base and main hubs but manual loadsheets at out-stations which are not connected to the mainbase seating computer.

Yes we call 1000 above (or below) in all cases. We did'nt originally, but our authority made us change.

No, cos now we are calling as above!

AnQrKa,

I was very happy to have the aids hard tuned one night when we got a mapshift and GPS/FMS position disagree coming out of KWL. The a/c turned 45 deg towards the high ground which the PF seemed quite happy about! We had to revert to selected and it was very nice to have the aids available immediately. Since China has not been mapped to WGS84 standards there are plenty of times when the a/c is not at the co-ordinates that the GPS thinks it is! China is just now trying to address this but I understand it will take some time. With their participation in the Gallileo sattelite system, clearly this has been made a priority. on another occasion I was doing a managed VOR into XMN in CAVOK for practice with GPS primary, coding was correct etc, but the a/c was in excess of 7 deg off the inbound track. Tower were so worried that they asked if we were visual, which we were.....I'll stick to hard tuning thanks!

I asked the question about the turn radius on EOSID and I have been told categorically that this has been taken into account in the performance calculations by Ops Data who design the EOSIDs.

I agree though, about the documentation. Unfortunately the computer system was not as flexible as some thought. I understand more work is going on to address this.

:ok:

[AnQrKa]

IDG,

In the situation you described (KWL and XMN), why would hard tuned aids have assisted. The FMC would have autotuned the VOR used in the associated leg of the departure, or approach. Autotuned raw data is as valid as manually tuned.

re gallileo, interesting point - a US white paper was "accidently" leaked last year indicating a Pentagon war gaming strategy to destroy the Gallileo satellite's upon launch. Threatening America's monopoly on sat nav is a dangerous game.

[A.FLOOR]

I have a question with regards to the turn radius.

If you are in NAV mode, does the Autopilot not follow the green line( lateral path) irrespective of your speed.

ie NAV mode, with a low speed implies less bank angle

OR

NAV mode, with a high speed implies a greater bank angle,

but in both cases will the aircraft not follow the lateral path ??

Hope the question is clear

[knackeredII]

A.FLOOR,

The aircraft endeavours to follow the green line and does vary the bank angle to suit. It will use the value in the FMGS to calculate the path and it is common to see it go outside the line if the speed is too high.

[CR-ASC]

Hello OICUR12
From a pilot from 3 diverse airlines (Europe and RP China)
A319/320/321
Regarding your questions dated 17th June:
1- Yes, allways but in diferent ways acording the company SOP'S.Reading the SID on the MCDU by PF and PNF confirming on the Chart or PF reading the Chart and PNF confirming on MCDU/ND.
2-Never (the auto abort is a built in feature), only during manual start.
3-On or Off according the situation
4-Only when ECAM gives Brakes Hot, or 5 minutes, exception if going into a near by stand and is required to cool down the brakes avoiding them on during a lot of time at the stand (to be confirmed if carbon brakes dust is harmfull or not)

Reagarding the questions dated 24th June
1-Usually 1500ft AGL unles other altitude required due to obstacles (example KWL in RPC).
2-Presently in my current airline no, previous airline yes.Anyway as I am a captain I do require to have them tuned on my flights.
I already put me out of a very strange situation because I had them hard tuned (a severe map shift of 80 miles at night and in a thunderstorm into LAOAG Phillippines without any indication regarding the shift, fortunately I had hard tuned the radio aids for app and followed a raw data app returning to the station were while overflying the VOR the map position just recovered), of course I had as well several double FMGC'S failures on SID's and STAR's .
Another factor is false ILS captures (yes they happen), so I do have radio aids tuned to support the approach, I do strongly recommend to read the Flight Safety Digest of July 2002 "Erroneous ILS Indications Pose Risk of Controlled Flight Into Terrain".
Another reason was while flying in RP China, their DATUM is not WGS84 so it can lead to same errors.
3- Used SITA and Jeppesen.
4-No

Hoppe this helped
All the best, and remember the scarebus is a computer with wings.