Dangerous Anzac day air display

[Tarboy]

CASA have been notified of a dangerous incident during the Anzac day fly past at Torquay. This year a new operator conducted the display. The previous operator has video footage of the display and is alleging one aircraft came close to stalling at low level directly over the crowd. They also have tapes of the radio conversation between display aircraft and have made the tapes and video footage available to CASA to assist them in their investigation.
Tarboy

[Captain Sand Dune]

And I suppose the video footage shows the aircraft's ASI:rolleyes:
And I supposethis "near death expereince" occurred over a kindergarten...:yuk:

[Super Cecil]

Just imagine what would have happened if the fan belt broke. :8

[Continental-520]

I seem to recount a post eerily similar to this concerning Anzac Day last year.

Something about a formation flight taking place before first light involving non NVFR rated pilots and ill-equipped aircraft.

What's with dobbing people in on Anzac Day? I never thought it was such a sensitive occasion.


520.

[morning mungrel]

I think the poster summed it up really. "New operator" "Previous operator" has video footage. Anybody else smell a grinding axe?????? Really, for all the pissing and moaning that goes on in that little circle of airfields, I'm surprised anyone actually has time to do any real work at any of them these days......

[Tarboy]

Part or the reason a new operator got the job this year is that the previous operator severely damaged two of his Tiger Moths on Anzac day last year and only has one left flying.
It's hard to do a Tiger formation flight with only one Tiger Moth.
Tarboy

[QNIM]

Gday Tarboy.

If what you say is correct, what a mob of morons, but remember they are regarded by a large proportion of the aviation industry as fwitts. They advertise themselves as Australia’s largest Tiger Moth operator (with one Tiger Moth?) and have advertised climb aboard a WW1 aeroplane. Tiger Moth 1918 I don’t think so. Their imagination seems to run wild or just maybe they really believe this crapp they serve up to the public, it could also border on false advertising. As for a formation flight with one Tiger Moth I would love to see that.

Cheers Q
:O

[Chippie Chappie]

You mean like this?

Langley Formation: Jandakot Tower, Langley Formation, Ship Yards inbound

Tower: Langley Formation, roger, what aircraft are left in the formation?

Langley Formation: Langley Formation, just me left, Romeo Whiskey India

Tower: Then I think we will just call you Romeo Whiskey India

VH-RWI: Romeo Whiskey India

From:

Jandakot ATC Humor (http://www.ozflightsim.com/jandakot/didyahear.htm)

[Tarboy]

G'day QNIM,

The past operator operated non VMC and severely damaged two Tigers without prosecution so I can't see any action being taken over this alleged incident. I think it is just a monumental waste of CASA's time as they are obliged to investigate any alleged breaches.

Chippie Chappie,

Radio Procedures at Torquay.
If the opposition is flying flat out then a phantom fight departs Torquay and proceeds to call outbound, inbound, and joing the circuit when the whole time the aircraft is observed sitting on the ground. The opposite happens when they get busy; there call downwind for Rwy 18 and land straight in on Rwy 36 - no wonder they run head on into each other.
Tarboy

[Onan the Clumsy]

And I suppose the video footage shows the aircraft's Angle of Attack :8 :p

[QNIM]

Gday Onan
It seems these wackers that reported the incident are real aviation experts they can tell from miles away exactely what the angle of attack was and the other 8000 witnesses that thought it was not a safety issue are wrong, me thinks a bit of jeolousy because the job was carried out in a safe and professional manner not like the previous year with the demolition of two Tiger Moths, and we are still waiting for the authority to take some action over the matter.
I bet the FAA wouldn't stuff around or would they?
We still live in hope.
Cheers Q
;)

[Chippie Chappie]

Hi Tarboy,

Sounds like you need eyes in the back of head to operate there! :ooh: Shame the two "bosses" can't act like grown-ups. Maybe they'll get a visit one day.... (one should have nasty things done to oneself if one writes-off a beautiful Tiger!)

It was a bit of an aside, but my post was just showing what a formation of one is like. VH-RWI is a DHC-1 Chipmunk so there's a slight connection there too, being a De Havilland product :)

Cheers,

Chips

[Tarboy]

Hi Chippie,
Enjoyed your earlier post – good humour never goes astray!
You could be right – they may get a visit one day.
I recall a certain Qantas captain getting a visit when he departed Launceston without activating the lighting prior to departure. He didn’t damage anything but was unfortunate enough to have a few flying types on board who made CASA aware of the event. If there is any consistency in CASA’s approach to this sort of thing you would imagine a formation flight departing an unlit runway before first light in non IFR aircraft resulting in an accident on landing would also lead to prosecution.
Look after that DHC-1 – these De Havillands are disappearing fast.
Tarboy

[QNIM]

Gday

Speaking of disappearing aircraft one advertised as a SUPER TIGER but made in America seems to have disapeared, maybe it has met same fate as the others.

Cheers Q ;)

[Tarboy]

QNIM,
That would be the Great Lakes.
Maybe people got sick of booking a Tiger Moth flight and being told when they showed up they were going in the "Super Tiger."
I'm sure it will reappear when the insurance claim goes in.
That's how CASA became aware of the last prang - the insurance company requested a copy of the accident report.
Tarboy

[Capt Hollywood]

This sort of bull$hit really gets me going! :mad: :mad:

What is it with these bl00ody pilots who think its their duty to monitor all others and then report anything they perceive as improper behaviour. I remember thinking pilots were a professional bunch, proud of their profession and dedicated to providing the best service to their passengers or clients. The more I hear of these pathetic eegits who video tape or record fellow pilots and then mail this off to CASA in the childish hope of getting someone into trouble, the more I lose faith in this so called profession.

Unfortunately these individuals are usually more concerned with commercial gain than genuine safety concerns. Why the hell can't these pilots just do their job to the best of their ability and accept that they are not Gods gift to aviation and that there are some people out there that may be better at it than they are.

This sort of childish bickering means CASA have to waste their time investigating these often fanciful allegations instead of pursuing those who legitimately threaten the safety of aviation.

Rant over! :mad:

Hollywood :cool:

[Tarboy]

I'm sure CASA would agree.

[tinpis]

:rolleyes: It just gets worse dont it?

[QNIM]

Gday Capt Hollywood

Hang on a minute these wankers really believe they are gods gift to aviation and they also believe they have exclusive use of the airspace along the Great Ocean Road, just ask any of the opposition pilots it that area, it could also be said they are gods gift to maintenance engineers with all the work they generate.

Cheers Q :p

[Lukeatme]

Hell watch it you may get "King Hit " if you visit these people whom have the videos, then again that got rid of one jumping menace from that place (other seems OK)

[Tarboy]

They're not about to attack CASA with a shovel this time.
They need help from CASA to ensure the opposition is prosecuted.

[jb05]

ive done about 250 hrs in tigers out of the ****tiest airstrip u can imagine ,550m long with 70 ft gum trees at one end and a road at the other(and no i'm not saying i'm good!) with tail skids and no brakes.i find it hard to believe at all that those imbeciles at tiger moth world(think you'd be half decent in one with a name like that!) can crash two aircraft on a more than adequate strip,then have the hide to try and put down other people by video taping them.i always thought of the tiger as idiot proof,the ******** i used to work for never killed himself in one and if anyone could it was him!in fact it probably is idiot proof, but that doesn't seem to stop idiots from owning, F#$#ing and trying to fly them.funnily enough they are usually rich idiots too!

[QNIM]

Gday jb05

Their not that rich in inteligence thats for sure it's been proven many times in the past with stuff up after stuff up and still they hold an AOC. As far as the allegations against the opposition it appears it was sour grapes and bullsh1t and a waste of CASA's time. We await further developments with interest.

Cheers Q :O

[Laikim Liklik Susu]

jb05 - couldn't agree more with you! I have 50 plus hours on Tigers.

An INCREDIBLY easy aeroplane to fly BADLY (as most people do!), but a LOVELY aeroplane to fly PROPERLY, once you learn. It only takes one bite from a Tiger for you to respect her (my respect was learnt doing a stall turn, bodgied it, spun out, INVERTED - man, that's an awful bloody feeling hanging in your straps inverted!)

Never flew a Tiger with brakes - all were original spec with skids (more like plows if you ask the airport groundsman that HATED us!).

Someone once told me a Tiger is very hard flying a crosswind landing - BOLLOCKS! Plenty of rudder authority, and as easy as pi to stick it, and keep it stuck!

It'd do a LOT of pilots the world of good to go out and fly something stick and rudder, seat of the pants. That seat of the pants flying seems to be rapidly disappearing.

The Tiger took me from a reasonably good pilot to a BLOODY GOOD pilot, and that isn't just my ego speaking! :p (I did all my Tiger flying prior to my commercial licence training)

[jb05]

We see the same sort of petty backstabbing with the drop zones in my local area with each one trying to report the other for dropping through cloud and all it does is create a ****ty atmosphere for everyone to work in,especially when u get both drop zone operators calling u up to whinge about the other and ask u to fly for them on the same weekend,u can't win either way u still get called names by both of them!In actual fact all dropzones push the weather boundries a bit in the name of the almighty dollar as do all other operators.so its a bit of a case of the pot calling the kettle black.i recall flying some passengers on a particular day in queensland (tigers)and the boss was adament the flight had to go ahead despite the 20 knot wind and turbulence from trees lining the strip.the real fun came though when we got back overhead in formation and it was time to land,he was very generous and suggested i go first! what a nice bloke.but then why have a dog and test the water yourself?

susu,
not a bad acheivement,i\'ve tried to spin the tiger inverted and couldn\'t get it going but we put down to a forward cg duy to my portly friend and fellow aerobatic pilot in the front(just so u know i wasn\'t trying this with some poor passenger on board with no idea!)the pitts goes in easy though and they are fun once u get used to them and have had the correct instruction dual while doing your first few.your right about the crosswind in the tiger too, as you can see in the above reply i agree it can take quite a bit although that was of course not 90 degrees to the strip!.don\'t know how much tiger flying u boys (or girls)all do but a handy cooking tip for inverted- if planing to try gliding inverted reduce power to idle as u roll,this keeps the engine ticking over instead of using up the fuel in the lines so quickly once u get any negative g on,same applies if your half way through a stall turn or any other manouvre, if she starts to get negative and cough bring it back and she\'ll stay going for longer.its this sort of querk that makes flying clean aerobatics in a tiger fun though isn\'t it.

[Laikim Liklik Susu]

Ah, I wouldn't go out of my way trying to make a Tiger spin inverted again... it's pucker factor flying!

I have landed ACROSS a strip in a particularly strong wind :p THAT was funny!

I always enjoyed letting a newbie on the Tiger to do a loop - 99.999% of them always ended up flying a corkscrew, as they always, without fail, forgot what their feet were doing in regards to power on / power off! (it is a BEAUTIFUL aeroplane to loop - more often than not I would always get my own wake at the bottom after coming around!)

Barrel roll left was easy. Barrel roll RIGHT is another matter. SLOW ROLLS are an artform in the Tiger either direction!!!!!!!!! Ya gotta be pretty good!!! Stall turns are easy enough to bodge consideering how fast the airspeed drops off (we used to do them at around 60 degrees nose up as opposed to vertical, just for a bit of margin) Tail slides are the realm of REALLY bodgied accident, cause you don't want to do one on purpose!!!

Fun flying, that is for sure. And that's what flying is suppose to be too!

[jb05]

barrell rolls to the right are just a matter of practice and patience but they are a good feeling when u get them right and in balance ,slow rolls i always do to the left and this is where bringing the throttle back helps and knowing the engine won't stop allows u to concentrate on the job at hand,stall turns i always do to the right,seen some people try them to the left and they just don't work cause your going against the torque.i always try to get them vertical on the way in and out and have found 80 kts to be the minimum for these although more speed on entry gives u longer to play around and find the vertical,if its any help make sure the wing tip looks vertical not the fuselage as this is what counts here,believe it or not a stall turn entered from vertical is easier!sounds like u know your stuff though,good to here from someone who appreciates how much fun the tiger is to aerobat and how hard it can be to make it look good

[djpil]

Thanks for raising the subject of aerobatics. Its been ages since I've done aerobatics in a Tiger. Must do it soon however these days I'd never fly inverted in an open cockpit aeroplane with just one set of straps and no chute.
As for crosswinds - 10 kts from the right is my personal limit. A bit higher to the left. My knee gets in the way with the slat lock on the right.
On occasions when I've done slow rolls, my passengers (also Tiger pilots) have been impressed as they couldn't do them. My theory was that under negative G they moved up and unable (or thought they had stick full forward) to reach enough forward stick inverted.

[Laikim Liklik Susu]

Yep, a slow roll in a Tiger is a true artform - most people just can't do it, including some VERY experienced aerobatic pilots I know and have flown with.

I think it more the complexities of coordination that stops a lot of people properly executing a slow roll in a Tiger - it does take a lot of fore-thought before trying ytour first one, as the movements seems very exaggerated compared to other aircraft. You have to be pretty quick to check forward inverted, and with judged input, as otherwise it will go tits up ASAP, and then get messy and flop.

Never use the slats, except in training. They CAN make a three pointer nicer, but if you do your part, there is no real need.