Students freezing on the controls.

[Whirlybird]

I'm a rotary FI(R), but I'm sure this happens occasionally with any kind of aircraft, so advice would be welcomed.

Like many of us, I frequently joke about students trying to kill me, but yesterday one came just slightly too close to it for comfort. :eek: He was a trial lesson student, who was managing to fly quite well with the cyclic, and asked if he could try the collective too. I agreed, since you hardly have to do anything with it in straight and level flight. We then started to descend, and I found the collective was locked solid. I asked him to let go, but he was concentrating too hard to even hear me. I then yelled at him to get off the collective, which worked. But...what if it hadn't? He was about twice my size; no way could I have overpowered him if I'd needed to. So, if it comes to the crunch (or rather, avoiding the inevitable crunch :( ) where do I hit someone, or how do I disable them effectively, without losing control of the aircraft in the process? :eek: :eek: :eek:

[johnnypick]

The first thing I was told on my Multi Instructor course was, if they don't let go elbow them in the face, but pre warn them before you go that you'll do this if you need to. Whem I came to do the flight test, I said this to the examiner and he said why don't you just flick the end of their nose, they 'll soon let go. So it's up to you, elbow or a flick.

[homeguard]

I think it must be worth concentrating on why such an event may happen rather than how one thumps a customer!

All of us Instructors are familiar with the phenomenon that students suffer bouts of deafness when under instruction. We know why - it is call overload. All of us are guilty of overloading our students from time to time. Whirlybird to quote; "but he was concentrating too hard to even hear me". Thats it, in a nutshell.

The T/F chap asked to take over the Collective "as well" but note; not instead of the Cyclic. Wouldn't we normally demonstrate one control at a time to a student and allow them to practice one control at a time and for good reason. By giving a novice a reasoned structured path into a situation you also at the same time give them a structured way out. This chap maybe had no reverse way out - the structure wasn't in place. He was lost!

The procedure of handing and taking over; "I have control vs you have control" was developed because the need for a structure was well understood. I like the one about 'tickling the nose' i'm sure it is as effective as an elbow in the face. You simply need to break the chap out of the groove that he has been put in - but it is not their fault, they have not joined this flight to be "elbowed in the face".

[hugh flung_dung]

Maybe there was something in the wind this weekend because I had a similar problem.
Experienced but rusty PPL, starting a tailwheel refresher. Reasonable flight, a couple of cases where "I have control" hadn't been responded to initially, but it was no problem.
Return back to the field for a landing with significant crosswind, touchdown and roll out were OK to start with but then rudder movement became digital and it seemed prudent to intervene. "I have control" said I but found I couldn't move the rudder from full right, then suddenly it went full left, etc, etc. This ended-up with a gentle runway departure (on the downwind side) when the tailwheel decided it was time to break-out and a gentle low speed pirouette ensued with no damage.
My first ground loop!
We spoke about the meaning of "I have control" and I'll be more cautious next time.
BTW, tickling the nose, wacking, etc doesn't work if you're tandem
:hmm: - thinks - maybe a long poll with a boxing glove on the end - but with hands on throttle and stick it would need to be strapped to some other part of the anatomy.

[the_flying_cop]

some of our drivers get a little task orientated sometimes, not in a dangerous way but they do get a little fixated on the job and not flying the craft where we want it (not u JF if ur reading)

result is that the aircraft becomes so out of position we end up flying over what we are watching causing all sorts of problems for my comrade 'down the back' or we get so far away that we cant see whats going on. one particular soul when asked to fly round 'the big white building' ended up being 4 miles north of it!!!!!.

solution : small sharp object like a pencil or biro swiftly and not too firmly stuck into said drivers thigh. also equipped back end chap with long stick also with sharp bit on end to poke back of drivers head (provided pilot not wearing helmet).

result : smooth transit around area of interest and very alert and sometimes bruised pilot.

when i learnt to fly i remember that we used the two finger rule on the controls. this meant that we didnt fly like fighter pilots and that should the wheel come off then the instructor should be able to take control without having to wrestle the student.

regards


TFC

[Genghis the Engineer]

Hope you folks don't mind a non-FI sticking his oar in, but an instructor friend suggested I might have something to add.

When not doing things with aeroplanes (an odd concept to most people who know me I'll admit), I practice a fairly obscure martial art called "Ryukyu Kempo". The basis of this is a reasonably deep knowledge of the human body and how to use it to make (somebody else's!) body behave in a desired manner.

I can think of a couple of techniques which will do no permanent harm to your student, but should have a rapid effect of making them let go of the controls.


First point is voice projection - shouting or screaming an instruction at somebody can work, but on it's own often won't, what it will do is emphasise a course of action that you are encouraging by a more physical means.

For general release, there are two obvious points on the face. The first is just between the upper lip and bottom of the nose. If you were to reach over and stick the edge of your hand there, wriggle it back and forth a bit (fairly forcefully) whilst shouting "let go", I'd put good money on their complying. A second which requires a little more finesse is to stick a knuckle just under the cheekbone and upwards and wiggle it a bit, whilst doing the same. These are deeply uncomfortable, but won't injure anybody.

If you need to release a specific limb, there are two easy ways to release a hand that is firmly gripping something. The first (which requires a little physical strength on your part) is to grab the back of the student's hand, squeezing across the back of the palm between just behind the little finger and the inside of the thumb - try this on yourself and you'll see why it then becomes easy to pull the hand away.

If you don't have all that much strength, using two of your fingers (or more likely a finger and thumb) create a fulcrum over the back of one of your student's base-finger knuckles, and lever the finger tip up with the other. Bend the finger back forcefully and guide it away from the control. This is known in the trade as a "finger lock", it's very painful but very effective and again does no permanent damage (unless you are really brutal, which is probably impossible in a cockpit anyhow). An important point here, the technique relies upon two points of contact - fulcrum and lever - if you try and grip the finger firmly, it won't work.

Feet are harder, but the best best would be to use your thumb and forefinger to squeeze hard across the top of the leg just above the knee - then move your thumb/fingertips around a bit to vary the pressure - do this quite quickly. That should both get their attention and release the feet.


If all this doesn't work, and your life is in danger, I'd advocate knocking them out; this does not need to be as brutal as it sounds. Feel the front of your throat then keep prodding round to the side, as you do it becomes soft, then hard again at roughly the 11 or 1 O'clock position - this shouldn't be covered by a headset. In chinese medicine this point is called "Stomach 9" and is the confluence of half a dozen assorted arteries and nerve junctions. If you jab your fingers hard and fast into there it will knock somebody out (what actually happens is that it sends a pulse of high blood pressure into the brain, which overreacts, radically drops the bloody pressure in the brain, and causes them effectively to faint). A few points on this:-

- Whilst it's not permanently damaging, unless there's a good reason DON'T, repeated use can be damaging since it can start to slowly damage artery walls.

- They'll come round in a few minutes, but their co-ordination and judgment will be dodgy for a couple of hours (and they may feel like an awful hangover in the morning). Treat accordingly!

- It is possible to bring somebody back to full awareness very quickly from this, but I'd not recommend trying in a cockpit (it requires access to pressure points on their back for a start), also the recovery takes a fair bit of training and defies simple description.



I don't know if that was any help, but for what it's worth I agree totally with homeguard. In self defence / martial arts we teach that avoidance is everything and physical techniques are there as an absolute last resort, and I think that equally true in your profession.

G

N.B. Another point where flying and Martial Arts have something in common is that you never get a technique right first time and skills degrade without practice. If you are, say a small lady instructor worried about being killed by a large dumb male student, I'd strongly recommend sitting in a stationary, non-running, aircraft and practicing these techniques with a friend until they become instinctive. As I said before, apart from the jab to ST9, they'll all hurt but do no damage.

N.B.B. Thinking about Whirly's collective problem, if you have something hard to hand - say a nightflying torch, roll it hard over the back of their knuckles - they'll let go!

[johnnypick]

I'd like to add, I don't go around elbowing people in the face and in 900 hours of instruction haven't had to do it. I was refering to the last resort after the 'I have control' speach falls on deaf ears and in a multi.

[Say again s l o w l y]

A sharp pencil always works well! I always have one in my kneeboard just in case.

'Overload' can happen to anybody, in fact one secret of good instructing, is knowing when your student reaches this level and then keeping them just below it.
When we start flying, this level can be reached by the smallest of things. The students body is being assaulted by a magnitude of new feelings and experiences and the brain needs time to assimilate these, even a simple task (to us) such as using the radio or using the rudder/anti-torque pedals can provoke a complete shutdown. It is rare that someone becomes totally incommunicado, but it does happen.

I usually like to keep a little bit of chat going, that way I can monitor the students responses, often when you ask someone to describe what they are doing and they go completely silent, you know they are approaching meltdown, help them by removing a task, but gradually reintroduce it, keeping them calm as you do.

Never let any student get depressed/demotivated after an episode like this. It has happened to all of us and is in no way a failing of theirs or yours. The next time they go up, it will be a huge amount better, since the brain has had time to process all of the new information.

In reference to this situation Whirly, touch is the best way of 'snapping somebody out of it'. It doesn't have to be a punch in the face (that is a last resort), simply putting your hand on their arm whilst talking gently seems to work most of the time. But if you have to then Genghis' ninja style technique may be appropriate!

[Whirlybird]

Thanks folks, and keep 'em coming. :ok: I'll certainly be more careful in future, but it helps to know what to do in case that doesn't work. As for students getting depressed or demoralised, this one certainly didn't. He'd been bought the TL as a 30th birthday present, and at first just wanted to overfly his house. But by the time we got back he'd decided he absolutely HAD to learn to fly helicopters, and was working out how he could afford to do the course. So maybe I got something right. :)

[fireflybob]

I think that some of this phenomena is a symptom that the "Handing Over/Taking Over Control" has never been taught and practised properly in the first place.

I find it is quite a common experience that pilots have little or no response to the "I have/you have control". This should have been taught and practised from lesson one.

I am not ex military but have instructed for the military and they are much more pedantic on this issue - perhaps an indication that they fly more to the limits when it is vital that the student relinquishes the controls when he hears "I have control".

Also bear in mind that most modern training aircraft are side by side seating so its possible to elbow the student if you have to - not so easy in a tandem aicraft.

That said in circa 5,000 hrs instruction I have never had a student "freeze" on the controls although I suppose there is always a first time!

[--o-o-0-o-o--]

Conversely.......i fly ferry flights regularly, and this sometimes involves flying back instructors. Nearly every flight, i have to repeatedly tell them to keep their big feet off the rudder pedals. I will try flicking them in the nose, or a swift elbow next time . :O :ok:

[Send Clowns]

To back up Whirly's instructional technique, I don't remember ever being taught one control at a time. OK, so when I first learnt to fly eggwhisks I could already fly a plank, but that doesn't help much in the hover!

[breakscrew]

Try the Vulcan 'Death Grip' as practised by Spock on StarTrek!

Seriously, having had a similar experience with a trial lesson in an R22, it made me think hard about what to do in future - the advice I was given was to twist their ear. It is very painful and will shock them, making them instinctively let go of the collective. You then have their attention. Also, it does not injure them in the same way as a puncture wound from a biro in the thigh..... ;)

[mad_jock]

Whirly I was taught that if you get this put your first knuckle of your first finger just below there sternum and rub it up the way not very hard. It is bloody sore and if they are still alive they will move to protect it. Strangely enough it was taught to me again as a pilot incapacition check during a sim session.

The biggest problem i had with a student on the controls wasn't huge bloke but a 85 year old granny. She kept on grabbing the controls with both hands with a solid grip and fighting opersite way every time i put a control input in. And no amount of talking to her would make her release.

In the end I peeled her fingers off the controls pitched up to 20degs and pulled the catch on the seat so she went back and couldn't reach the controls again. And thankfully we had landed by the time she had managed to shuffle the seat forward again. At which point she grabbed the controls again in the grip and didn't let go until I had shut down and got out the aircraft.

Well done though getting a sale though

MJ

[pilotwolf]

How do you twist someones ear unless they have a lightweight or no headset on - not a likely sceanrio in training?

PW

[Onan the Clumsy]

The basis of this is a reasonably deep knowledge of the human body and how to use it to make (somebody else's!) body behave in a desired manner. I think my old girlfriend used to study that :}


Forget your students freezing, wait until you have a first time jumper halfway out of the door freeze up on you :ooh: or worse still reach out and grab something to hang on to...and it's the yoke :eek:

At least you have a little more time to work on him (well in the first case at least) you just seem to spend it hoping that his rig stays packed. :uhoh:

[criticalmass]

I have had this once in the microlight when a student froze solid on the bar after encountering a ball-tearing thermal at about 400 feet on climb after takeoff.

Seated behind him, all I could do was try to correct the worst of the sudden movement of the control-bar, then shout "Relax! I have control, Relax!" on the intercom whilst I reached forward, physically grasped both his wrists firmly and lifted them upwards, forcing him to let go of the bar.

This succeeded, and I then told him to rest his arms for a few seconds which allowed me to return the microlight to the correct attitude and heading.

He was most apologetic afterwards, and when he had recovered sufficient composure I allowed him to take control of the bar again and the flight proceeded without further drama. He subsequently became a very competent and enthusiastic pilot and is still active.

In this case I believe it was a simple case of sensory overload occasioned by proximity to the ground and a massive disturbance of the control-bar which caused the aircraft to bank to an alarming degree. With all my strength I was able to partially correct this, to the point where I could then reach forward and grasp his wrists and thus force him to relinquish control.

It all happened pretty damn quick, but I do recall being quite forceful in grasping his wrists and using a very authoritative voice on the intercom.

[Genghis the Engineer]

From a self defence viewpoint, that would be regarded as pretty much spot-on, the weakest part of a grip is the thumb, and what you effectively did was push the thumb against the bottom of the bar, breaking the grip. Simultaneously you gave him a loud and clear verbal instruction - that's basically what we teach somebody to do if they have been grabbed (for example) by the wrist. (Also standard self defence teaching is act straight away, not allow somebody to get "fixed" into a situation).

I notice that you're flying the Streak. That's just appeared in the UK (in the XT912/StreakIII guise), how are you finding it? I flew a couple of hours in one, and found it pretty benign and very well built, but unnecessarily heavy in roll (especially trimmed fast, I guess due to the lufflines being fixed at the kingpost instead of running through a pulley like most UK wings) with what seemed a very low Vne compared to what it would do in level flight.

G

[dreamingA380]

Had to laugh!

I had a scaffolder as a trial lesson once... he was as strong (and as stupid) as an ox plus he had a grip of iron!.

Well he froze on the controls and didnt react to me shouting at him so I smacked his forearm... worked a treat!

I did think he was going to beat sh!t out of me for a moment, but instead he got the teas in!

:-)

[dynamite dean]

you could alwaystry telling him his wife was a good shag last night
but then he might elbow you!:ouch:

[Genghis the Engineer]

you could alwaystry telling him his wife was a good shag last night
I just can't see that working for Whirly.

G