More Eagle Interviews

[atyourcervix73]

Hi all...just to let you know, got an email this morning form Eagle Airways NZ. To be honest I'd forgotten my details were still on Staff CV....(I'm now a SFO/Captain in training on 757's):rolleyes:
In any case the interviews are set down for Feb 28, March 1 & 2...goodluck to all those who get the email or call....the 1900 is a good beasty for a first job! :ok:

[Cloud Cutter]

Isn't that amazing:eek:

There are also interviews Feb 14-16, closely following the ones a few weeks back. I think it would be more newsworthy if a month went by without any eagle interviews.

[Horse Float Driver]

Heard today thru the gossip grapevine that these have been cancelled due lack of interest...Or is that due too much interest from other parties?

Oh to have had the choice back in the good old days......

[splatgothebugs]

GA pilots arnt dumb, I'm sure they can see thats its not a happy camp at the moment and are prepared to wait a little longer to see what happens.

Just a thought:ok:

splat

[Luke SkyToddler]

jeez splat how times have changed, I thought that YOU thought eagle was god's gift to nz aviation?

[Split Flap]

Whats the latest with the negotiations?

[mattyj]

Whats happening at Eagle anyway??

Are the boys up front getting tired of low pay?

[Cloud Cutter]

Woops, got a bit confused with my first post, but you may find this more interesting...

The interviews planned for this week were shifted to 28th-2nd because they couldn't get enought pilots to attend!

Now as splat said that must be a sign of people having a think and another look around (or most of the would be interviewees already having jobs/interviews with NSN or Cook) - if this was a couple of years ago, eagle could have called up most applicants and had them attending interviews the next day. In saying that, there are still plenty of willing applicants, but eagle need to lower there sights so they are not competing with the bigger planed, higher paying airlines - they will not win.

A job with eagle has still got to be heaps better than most GA jobs, so if your applying or have an interview, I wouldn't read too much into this talk or poor pay and conditions - just make sure you only get bonded for 1 year (there are 2 different bond contracts beleive it or not). The trip to Canadia is not all bad either.

Split flap - as you can probably guess, eagle pilots are not at liberty to discuss negotiations on a public forum.

[splatgothebugs]

All the **** aside its a good job, you fly with good buggers on good route structures and get paid to do it in an aircraft which out performs nearly every other prop in NZ skies.

Its not all bad :ok:

[Sqwark2000]

(there are 2 different bond contracts beleive it or not).

Cloud Cutter, for clarification, there are two bond periods available depending on what job the company offer you.

The standard is to be offered a Contract Pilot position for a period of 1 year, bond effective at successful completion of training. Once on board you can apply for any full time jobs that become available at your leisure. Downside is you are not onthe seniority list until you go permanent.

The company also has the discretion to offer you a permanent full time job straight away as has happened recently to 2-3 chaps. For the security of a permanent job and entry straight onto the seniority list, the bond period is 2 years.

There are pro's & con's to both, but I think the company will be reluctant to go down the Fulltime job option again as a couple of chaps have struggled with the line training (including a direct entry fulltimer), and if the "contract" pilot fails to meet the standard after retraining then it's easier to terminate a contract than sack a permanent employee.

At the moment with movement the way it is, time on contract is very minimal and so probably the preferred way to go, as you can expect full-time status pretty quick with only the 1 year bond transferred to your new position. The bugger would be if movment stopped for what ever reason and a long time on contract could be worse than GA. In the past guys have spent 9mths on contract working 1-2 days per fortnight to protect the 400hrs per year maximum a contract pilot is restricted to. at the moment thought guys have spent as little as 1 day after line training on contract before being offered a permanent job.

I think the company would prefer to nail guys down to the 2 year bond as it gives some sort of stability that is not prevalent at the moment but they have to weigh that up against training issues etc.


It is a good job, good aircraft, good crews and I would recommend it to anyone, but it doesn't pay the same as Cook or Nelson so if the opportunity is there you can't blame them for trying.


S2K

[Horse Float Driver]

Well said Squawk!

It is rare to read someone's veiw that is on the mark, instead of the standard "Bag the Little Guy's"

[empacher48]

Currently have applications standing with both Eagle and Air Nelson - what sort of experience are the guys being called up for interviews have at the moment? Just wondering to see how far I have to go!!!

[Cloud Cutter]

S2K, as I said, I would sugest they go for the contract then perm route in the current climate. The benifits of the 1 year bond far outweigh 2-3 weeks delay in seniority.

[atyourcervix73]

empacher.....the experience I had 19 months ago when I applied to eagle on staff CV was 1600 TT..with about 300 multi-turbine.

[Sqwark2000]

CC, absolutley it's the way to go at the moment, but for the benefit of those looking at Eagle as an option it should be made clear that it is the COMPANY that decides what contract they offer new pilots not the pilots making their own preferred choice.

I made a killing as a contractor, taking home in the hand close to double what my GA pre-tax pay was, was like winning Lotto every fortnight!

S2K

[splatgothebugs]

Contract is the way to go if you can.

Most contractors were/are taking home about the same as captains each week

splat

EMPACHER48 I could well be incorrect but EAG mins seem to be over 1000TT and 100-150 multi

:ok:

[flying ginge]

what about slightly short of 1000TT with 300+multi ATOs?

[The Holy Grail]

Splat,

To measure performance by speed alone is rather short sighted...how about considering cost per seat per mile of operation.....or more importantly what do you think my little posse of hosties would say if I was to boast about being the "quickest" operator in town!

And please little people before you accuse me of turning this into a p***ing competition..........there is no competition!

holy!

[Thump & Go]

Continuing the theme of Not a p!ssing contest and in (Rare!) defence of Splat I think he said the A/C was one of the best performers around, not that it was the fastest. That would be like saying A/C with hosties are better than those without, now wouldn't it?

If you, as a pilot derive pleasure from flying an A/C with good seat-mile costs good on you:ok: I'm afraid my wheels aren't spinning:(

Flying Ginge - 1000TT(for now for Eagle) is a bit like $9.95 instead of $10 - one sounds better than the other although the difference is negligible. Through staffcv.whatever.com you might not be spotted till 1000hrs, so is a personal visit a possibility? I pretty sure they wont tell you to sod off if the bigwigs have time, and that way you get your 999.9 hrs under their noses - just an idea.

And remember little people when it's over out there we're all on the same team ;)

Thump

[splatgothebugs]

Cheers Thump!

Holy grail, I was pointing out its performance all round. If you want to go into seat miles cost ect you can but it dosen't really fuss me.

Having a hosteeeeeee and therefore coffee in fight does gain bonus points but if its fun to fly then that holds alot more satisfaction than having a F/A. :D

happy flying and good luck to all going to interviews:ok:

splat

[always inverted]

Just had the call from Bearnie,

interviews are on the 28 Feb, 1,2 March and then the ground course is on the 14 of March.
Just if anyone was curious... 1300 TT, 670 multi and 200 IFR.

[Don Won]

Some have been called at short notice for this round, but I know of a few round the 1500TT 150 multi..........
I hope you eagle aero club boys stand up for yourselfs when it comes down to your contracts being reviewed, have heard that staff travel has been pulled to put the "wind" up when there was talk of a mass DCM.
Air NSN and Cook have had too go through the same shizza to get their contracts and I'm shure the rest of the industry would support the cause .....................
Origin are running a J41 course in march if they can get anyone to do it, not shure why when they are sending A/C back, might be doing the Origin.... ground course now start two years later!!

[haughtney1]

I got an email off Eagle as well....Had a nice chat with Bernie..then politely (but really I was wanting to say F@&K OFF!..for all the dont call us as you dont "FIT" our profile) informed her that I already have accepted an offer on jets :cool:

[Cloud Cutter]

I imagine Bernie is getting a few polite 'no thank you's', as I said, they need to accept a few simple truths and start calling lower time pilots.

[Bombay]

Overhead in the Wellington terminal the other day, at FUEL coffee....

B1900 Pilot: "Well, at least we're flying the most sophisticated and best performing turboprop in the country..."

Tell me, have you Eagle guys got your heads stuck so far up your date that you're actually BREATHING the bull**** now?

[haughtney1]

Bombay...that matches my impression of all the Eagle drivers I have met..and Ive met a few over the years (I'm sure the VAST MAJORITY that I havent met sincerely are great people as well:D )...I tried chatting to an Eagle Driver in Whakatane about a year ago.....explaining that I used to fly the Bandit..(Ex Eagle equip)..and that as I was flying a BE350 around Europe at the time..would he mind if I had a sneaky peek upfront..while they turned around.....Never has anyone been so rude and offensive in aviation to me as this guy was...he basically called me a liar..and told me where to go...nice guy NOT!

Oh and he was about 25..Dark hair...first name A%&*"*r..probably a graduate of the "My **** doesn't stink as I fly the most sophisticated T/P in NZ..and Ive got some Bars on my weedy shoulders"

Not that I'm bitter....:p

Sorry all you normal nice Eagle Drivers....you have a few amongst your ranks who are giving you a bad name.

[VH-VIN]

Sophisticated?
Thats the good thing about the 1900, its as sophisticated as a 172 and as easy to fly.
Just goes a bit better!!!!
I think we all like to think the aircraft we fly are the best until we go onto another job.

[Cloud Cutter]

Hold on guys......

I've always found it pretty funny too when pilots (Eagle or otherwise) talk up their aircraft. It's just an aircraft (agreed, it's small, full of archaic technology, and basically a light twin), most Eagle pilots don't give a toss about who's aircraft is better. This whole 'talking up the beech' thing is a form of short mans syndrome - some Eagle pilots are so used to being the little fish that they get defensive, particularly the ex bandit pilots, some of whom seem to feel vindicated now they're flying the big bad beechcraft. You only have to look at the rate of attrition to see what they really think of the job.

I remember an Eagle pilot telling me about how he had 'stumped' a 737-300 pilot when being given the tour. '...I see you've got TCAS and GPWS, well in the beech we have TCAS II and EGPWS...' apparently the 73 driver had the good grace not to point out the 22K jet engines, and 142 seats on his aircraft. It's this sort of thing that gives Eagle pilots a bad name (perhaps rightly so), but most of us are as disgusted as everyone else.

Haughtney - I find that surprising, he is one of the good buggers. Maybe you miss-understood him, or caught him on a bad day? (those turnarounds are pretty tight). I don't think it's appropriate for you to identify a pilot like that in any case (Half of New Zealand aviation will know exactly who you're talking about) - I suggest an edit may be in order.

[SkySurfin]

Every company has fulas that give it both a good and bad reputation. Unfortunatley Eagle has a couple of strokers floating round that think the 1900 is gods gift, and that this makes them and their machine superior to the other Turbo prop operators in NZ..... but hey this doesnt mean all the Eagle pilots are like that! And it is unfair to generalise that they are! For a lot of them, flying is something they enjoy, but it is not how they get their kicks! Whether a pilot flys a beech, saab, ATR or dash, at the end of the day its just flying. A lot of pilots at Eagle are more concerned with planning a few beers and trying to pull hot chicks, than what plane they are flying.....just like any other normal pilots! Its just a shame some people have given the company a bad reputation, As it is not always a true reflection of the guys (Majority) that work their.

[Cloud Cutter]

A few beers and hot chicks aye? Sounds like a plan!;)

[flying ginge]

Thump & Go,

have thought about a visit to the bigwigs. Who's the person to see? I'm waiting to start at Origin but job security could be better flying under the koru banner i feel.

[Borneo Wild Man]

And whats wrong with the Bandit?Best flying Ive ever done was in a Bandit(2000hrs).Much more fun than the 185Tonnes I now fly.
Most frequent instrument I scan now is the a/c clock(oh only 10hrs to go!)Enjoy what you've got while you still can!

[Cloud Cutter]

And whats wrong with the Bandit?
Nothing at all, that's exactly my point - if people would stop to smell the roses rather than trying to keep up with the Jones's we wouldn't be having this debate. As SkySurfin said, flying is fun and a good way to earn a crust, but there's more to life.

[F111]

VH-VIN,

Please check you PM, I've sent you a message regarding the 1900.

[max rate]

I don't know where the notion that the Beech is the most advanced tprop in NZ came from. No autopilot, archaic flight director, crappy GPS that takes half an hour to enter anything into and a very GA approach to the instrument layout. having said that, I agree it has arguably the best performance in NZ........................I still prefer my cup of coffee every sector:cool:

:} Oh, and my much larger pay packet!

[haughtney1]

Cloud in response..point taken, and noted...as for the aforementioned being a good bloke?..well mayby he needed a little lesson in interpersonal skills on that day, as I said this person was impressive with his offhanded manner...his sour demeanour..and general arrogance. As for it being unfair to post on here....well lifes like that sometimes, had he been a little more rude, he may well have ended up nursing a fat lip.

The Bandit...great aeroplane!.....specially loved the fuel totaliser...oh and the lock wired gear collapse switch!



:D

[splatgothebugs]

Max rate..........maybe you would be kind enough to donate to the EAG pilot I can't afford to get on the piss fund. I can assure you your donation will be greatly appreciated. ;)


Everybody else

Sure EAG has a few plonkers but like i have said in the past so does every other airline in NZ. I could point fingers at many people from other airlines (and my own occasionally) that i have said hello to only to get snobbed! Unfortunatley THATS LIFE.

Don't stress about what others do to you or you hear them saying and you will live longer. :ok:

splat Happy flying:ok:

[Cloud Cutter]

maybe you would be kind enough to donate to the EAG pilot I can't afford to get on the piss fund.
Priorities mate, it's the 'EAG pilot I can't afford to pay my rent cause I spent my limited cash on piss fund':ok:

[Thump & Go]

Flying ginge check your PM's

[kavu]

Good luck to all of those people for the upcoming interviews. As has been said many times before - Just be yourself and if you don't know something just say so. They know more than you do.

As they say on the interview - we are a training airline and guys/gals do go on to bigger and brighter things. If you can give us a couple of years then that would be fantastic.

Well its true. If you think that this is another step along your flying career path then make the most of it. Another notch in your belt, another bit of information in the learning curve. You will appreciate it, maybe not now but certainly in the future.

It's almost like the story about the 152 pilot looking up at the 402 pilot and him looking up at the 737 pilot who looked up at concorde who looked up at the space shuttle who looked down at the 152 saying"Now THAT'S flying!"


Good luck guys/gals.:)

[always inverted]

Hey there guys/ gals.

Interviews were postponed as of yesterday and new dates are the 14-16th March with the ground course for the successful ones on the 4th- 9th April.

[craka]

Anyone know why?????

[splatgothebugs]

Hit the nail on the head there! :ok:

splat

[flyby_kiwi]

I heard the reason given was the unavaliablity of interviewing staff???

[GloryDays]

Heard last night that Management Pilots, such as those on the interview panel, have got lots of flying coming up so that Base meetings can happen.

[Cloud Cutter]

And of course at least one integral member of the interview panel will be attending the base meetings.

[Split Flap]

I think it is up to you good guys in Eagle to tell the spankers within your ranks to pull their heads in. I have very little time for the vast majority of Eagle pilots I have met, where does one get off thinking they are the coolest person in the airport just cause they dont fly a seneca anymore. Remember where you came from boys and girls.
As for their radio calls at unattended airfields, do you guys have your hands on your equipment while you are talking? Guess what... nobody listens.
As for the most sophisicated ..bla bla spank spank whatever he said... The gear it has in it is crap. Enjoy hand jobing it while everyone else drinks hot coffee.
If you can bring your self down to the level of being civil to the pilot of an obviously inferior aircraft go ask if you can have a squiz up the front of an ATR or J41, few more whistles in there chaps.
As for performance the CV580 and J41 crap all over you.

[Thump & Go]

Hmmm.....?Speaking of people who know it all. Nice one Split Pea, how long did it take to get all those ratings?
Your bookshelf must be full of AFM's!:bored: bahaha

[NoseGear]

Thumper, you really should be more polite mate, you would be if you knew who you were making snide comments to.............:hmm:

But while we're at it Spank and Go, how do you get the chip on your shoulder into that little twin? :p :E

Other than that, there are lots of good guys, and girls, at Eagle and good luck to all who have an interview.

Nosey

[Bombay]

You know, to be honest, that day at FUEL Coffee in WLG? What irratated me more, was that he was gobbing off about the B1900 and holding up the queue! I was desperate for a coffee.

You'd think with all that marvellous B1900 performance he was singing about, he'd beat me to FUEL Coffee and be gone before I got there. That way I wouldn't have had to wait in line behind him.

Then again, I got a good look at his halo, shining brightly right above his head.

Must have come with the B1900 endorsement.

Bombay

[Split Flap]

Spank and Go,

You reinforce my opinion of Eagle drivers, thank you.
Do the 1900's come supplied with wet one's?
Only one AFM on my shelf bud.:ok:

Nosey and Bombay

Kia Ora to you both... Regards to your whanu and taumarikis.

Ka kite.

[Thump & Go]

G'day Nosey, apologies if I seem impolite, I think by the same token if you realised who I am you'd be the first to admit how far off your hasty assessment of my personality is since we've met & know each other quite well.

Alas, I feel you've missed my point as has Split Flap - that being: Hypocrisy
Surely talking Eagle/B1900 down is no better than talking them up?
We've heard plenty here (on this, an interview thead) about Eagle pilots are all spankers , little twin ,as for their radio calls at unattended aerodromes ????( help me out there if you will)no A/P,archaic F/D, crap GPS and a very GA approach to instrument layout and then some more about A/C that out-perform the beech from people who have probably never flown for EAG or the B1900, along with constant reference to cups of coffee and higher salaries???
Is this not a familiar superiority complex?

A turboprop is a turboprop is a turboprop, perhaps this could be the thought for the day.
Another could be: if it has wings and engines it's a plane - nothing more. Damn!!!I should have taken philosophy at Uni.;)

Go outside, Enjoy the sun, run around, play with the kids and stop worrying about what people said at the coffee shop and stop breathing aviation!!

Yours sincerely Spank & Go the 61st(to make a majority:))spanker in Eagle (or am I??:E )

[haughtney1]

Is it farmed or wild salmon?.....mmm add a nice greek salad...a light drizzle of olive oil...and it would almost be like your back in NZ Luke..cept for the horizontal sleet I guess.:E

[Don Won]

Spank - It's true these eagle aerosexual posts do seem to follow the same vain, #Their interviewing # They suck # Now lets all hold hands #.
Maybe there could be some truth in some of these posts?? I know we could alway's ask the great one; old W S mind you he's prob busy trying to crack 20 ton in the circuit but the fact remains if you have a job with eagle air........... It's Stink For You!

Luke- Cool bro you flyen a J31 in the UK..............and you used to fly in NZ............... and now you get payed heaps ........and the WX is really bad there...............and we alll should chill........and you fly a J31.......and that's in the UK.............and you used to be flyen twins in NZ............and you now fly a J31 oversea's ........

:zzz:

[Luke SkyToddler]

Fair call Don. It's just pprune is about my only way of staying in touch / having some banter with the boys from the good old days I guess. It just happens that Eagle threads is about the only place where I know everyone who's posting. You can put me on your ignore list if I bore you so friggin much.

Anyway I better shut up now and let all the cool people like you, get on with the business of saying original things on PPRuNe that haven't been said 100000000 times before. :rolleyes:

[NoseGear]

Thump mate, thats the problem with anonymous threads, you just don't know who you might be flaming:O :E

If you note, I have not put down Eagle motors, cause if you know me, then you know that I have a fair number of good mates of past and present Eagle pilots. I think a pm from you "outing" yourself would be interesting, in all confidentiality of course!:ok:

Luke, I think I know you mate, 185 sideways at Raglan.....am I close?:E

Nosey

[Luke SkyToddler]

Sorry Nosey I would love to have a chat with you, but then I would probably get Don having another go at me for talking to my mates on PPRuNe threads, instead of only talking about cool Eagle pilot stuff ... so I'll send you a PM instead

:hmm:

[haughtney1]

Don..do us all a favour Mr Cool dude.....find yourself a quiet secluded room, and give yourself a good slap....:hmm:

[Swamp Donkey]

Nosey and Split,

Kia ora to you both - may we unite one day to pleasure the fuller figure ladies once again..........I have tales of ill repute to recall but not on these means....I hope the flash waka's are treating you kindly........

Don (bling bling) I fink the ETOPS might be getting to you.......

C U

[Borneo Wild Man]

Ah Mr Swamp DonK-long time no hear
Do we have a date for Oshkosh?

[justathought]

Does anyone know when the next interviews are? Have calls gone out? Are they struggling to get people with the multi time (thats what I heard at the aero-club)?

[outboundjetsetter]

Dont go soley by what you hear in an "Aero Club" buddy,
you oftern hear a lot of big .) .)ies comming out of there!
im sure they are looking but dont think they are too desperate or dropping requirments anytime soon.

keep plugging away at it

outbound

[justathought]

If I was going "soley" on what I heard there I wouldnt be asking here would I ......pal. Thanks for the info though...it sort of could maybe answer the third question.
Off to keep plugging.

[egale_aint_that_bad]

Dont no bout da calls 4 intaviews but i got a call sayin Im in.

It's da bestest news i have herd in ages.

I can finaly get outta GA an in2 a reel earline wif sophisticated machines.

4 all those wif intaviews cuming up hears wot i did.

In da group section i was pretty quite altohugh i didnt jst sit there i axtuale toke part in most of he conversations and activetys.

In the sim i totalle screwed up turnin da wrong way on da crosswind leg (you no the one wear u go frm outbound to inbound). it didnt seem to worrie them tho.

I da big 3on1 section, i was relle nervous but they made me feel reel gd by asking me the same questions that people frm da last 6 interviews have gt so i new all da answers.

It's reelly ez jst b urself an dont get to streesed bout da sim.

gd luk

[always inverted]

Yeah, I got the congrats call too.
I would not say that it is easy tho. The group session was fairly relaxed after you get over the initial nervousness and I walked away quite enjoying it. The panel are more relaxed on day 1 I think.
Sim, have a practice a couple of times if you need to and know your holds and apps. Sim instructor is good and quite light hearted.
Panel, they try to make you relax but in reality they are still the interview panel, and you should still be a bit nervous- after all they control the final decision and you can't change that.

[atyourcervix73]

WELL DONE !!! Eagle and Inverted...

Watch those start temps.....and dont forget to set the 100' below destination airfield elevation on the pressurisation panel :D

Oh and your gonna love auto-feather

[Cloud Cutter]

Come on guys, it's a pretty obvious wind up!!! Congrats always inverted, have you been flying aztecs?

[always inverted]

thanks for that, but I can honestly say that I have never set foot in an aztec.

[DeltaT]

Whats the multi hour requirement down to now?

[mattyj]

100, 1000TT but you need to be pretty sorted in the interview with those times

G-luck

[NoseGear]

CC, nope, Always Inverted has been logging time in the Tri-Motor column!:p Probably got passed by Aztecs everyday though!!:E

mattyj is right, those are the min hours, but you'd be lucky to get a call, as they are the minimums, for insurance reasons I understand. A few hundred more multi and total time should see the Eagle Motors wannabe right.

Congrats AI, and to others.

Still waiting for Thump, check your pms.

Nosey

[Cloud Cutter]

Lucky man! I'm green with envy whenever a mini DC10 takes off in front of me at AKL - they're just cool.

Back to the minimum hours, as i've said before - there are two different groups: 1000 hours with decent multi, or 100 multi with decent (1500+) total time. The multi time (particularly IFR) is more usefull when it comes to training, but they won't go below 1000 hours total (yet) as it creates too many downsteam problems with command upgrades (due ATPL and company requirements).

Eagle have just changed their initial line training program to allow for the less experienced new hires that are coming through.

As far as pay goes, it looks like new co's with ATPL theory will start on $37,000 plus allowances (or $35 without ATPLs).

[always inverted]

Mate, you right about that but its cause they fly them empty all the time...
bwah hahahaha
Pretty cool comming into AA with 17 POB. and a couple of dogs tho.
Honestly they are a delight to fly and so light on the controls...hmm, no they aren't, but they are still fun.

[loady]

Does anyone have a website for Eagle air?

I would like to be nosy but google isnt keen to play the game.

Many thanks

[troppo]

loady,
why don't you just try putting a NZ domain name on the end of their name....it's not hard really. :hmm:

[always inverted]

www.eagleair.co.nz

mattyj, I have the notes for you, ur boss has my number so call me.

[loady]

Excellent, many thanks for the help.

[DeltaT]

Quote " due to the number of -new- applicants, some 65 in the past 2 months, we are now looking for people with around 300 multi"
Quote " we are having no problems meeting our requirements as far as new applicants are concerned"
Quote " having a B1900 rating does not enhance your chances of a job with us. No pilot we have employed has been exempt from going to Canada (where sim is) "

[Cloud Cutter]

We only have 35 applicants on the books who meat our requirements (WT)

For those of you who are unmoved, this number has been well into the hundreds in the past. Not sure what the application tracking requirements are, but 300 multi seems to keep coming up, and I would gather 1000 total. Unfortunately you don't even show up on the list untill you reach 1000 total.

Of course no company will ever have problems meeting their requirements for new applicants if they are prepaired to shift the goal posts.

[Crack]

Any machine that needs so much ****e hanging off it to harness the law's of aerodynamics,does not instill much faith with me.

And wait for the freezing rain to enter and Ice up your elevator and rudder control rods?

:E :ouch:

I seem to remember that two machines where lost in the early days, lossing directional control, on one engine. and it had a tail stall problam as well, a few years ago BEECH where practicaly giving the things away to anyone that expressed interest in the said machine.

Unless I am wrong lets see if we can get some North American content on my comments, Canada especially.



:ok:

[MOR]

Nah... it's a dog. What you get when you try and turn a six-seater into an airliner. Keep stretching and eventually, the laws of physics catch up with you.

I did the course a while back, and the notes are at pains to talk it up as being a wonderful airframe.

Trouble is, it's a dog. A slow, under-equipped, ugly dog...

[haughtney1]

At least they are'nt usin bandits anymore:p

[gumboot flyer]

any more of the lads from the last ground course had start dates yet?

[always inverted]

Yes, starts on the 23 rd May, and then probably 6 weeks after that, interviews againg 1st week of june aparently.
Best of luck to those that get calls.

[Cloud Cutter]

Calls will go out today for next round in a few weeks. Good luck.

[1279shp]

MOR> Trouble is, it's a dog. A slow, under-equipped, ugly dog...

Slow? Vmo 248 M0.48
Under equipped? We got eveything we need and some. Okay an A/P wud be nice at times, like for reading the Herald.
Ugly? Well okay it is for a mother to love!

[MOR]

Hmmm... well the J32 has the largest cabin in its class, and comes complete with an autopilot (and a toilet). It's Vmo is 255kts.

The Metro III has a Vmo of 278 kts apparently.

Not sure why you quote Mach figures, they are irrelevant at low level (where these aircraft fly).

So what aircraft, in the same class, is slower than a B1900D???

Your 1900's are just about the lowest spec that you can legally fly. I can't believe that any new commuter aircraft, in this day and age, can be specified without an autopilot. That is just ridiculous.

As others have said - crap FD, crap GPS, antique systems with little redundancy.

You'll realise how awful it is when you get to fly a better-equipped aircraft.

Until then, enjoy your 1279shp... and all that hand flying (very character-building).

Seriously though, it is an aeroplane with more than one engine and a cabin crew member to make the coffee, so it can't be all that bad... ;)

[Avpro]

Okay then, so who got a call on May 5??

What's the latest...?

[splatgothebugs]

MOR

You have a very strong opion that the J32 is better than than B190!

May I ask how you come to think that a J32 is better in performance than the Beech?

I'm not trying to stroke egos or compares whos is bigger but there is no way that a J32 keeps up with the Beech its a regular thing to pass and out climb them not to mention the fact that they use half of the runway at AKL to get airborne. :p

Before this all gets out of hand like it normally does perhaps we should all just agree to disagree :ok:

splat

[Cloud Cutter]

Not sure why you quote Mach figures, they are irrelevant at low level (where these aircraft fly).

A rare moment of ignorance from MOR? The Mmo of 0.48 is limiting above 13000 ft (DA), at 25000 ft it equates to 198 KIAS so you are most certainly limited by it.

As for the Metro III, could be wrong but I thought Vmo was 246 KIAS.

I agree with just about everything else you say, although not sure if the last bit is a wind up 'cause the only person making coffee on a B190 is the good old co-pilot (with the panel mounted coffee machine of course).

My previouse post re calls for intervies was a bit premature (sorry) calls should go out before the end of the week for interviews in early June.

[MOR]

splat

You have a very strong opion that the J32 is better than than B190!

No not really I hate them both equally... :}

Without delving into both Flight Manuals, the answer is I don't know. The Vmo's are similar, so maybe it comes down to technique/pax loads or whatever. Also, the J32 has different speeds depending on where it is certified (faster under FARs).

I used to operate the J32 out of such tiny strips as Scatsta, the short vector at Humberside, and various others. It gets off the ground very smartly if you apply the correct technique.

My point wasn't really about performance anyway, it was more to do with cabin size and equipment levels. If you want to see how much bigger the cabin of a J32 is than a B1900, I refer you to this.

http://www.asg.baesystems.com/images/j31cabin.gif

Cloud Cutter

The Mmo of 0.48 is limiting above 13000 ft (DA), at 25000 ft it equates to 198 KIAS so you are most certainly limited by it.

Sorry, didn't make myself clear. The limitation is an airspeed one - there is no machmeter, so your barber pole is driven by your ASI, and indicates an approximation of mach. You fly to an airspeed. In fact I can't find any mach limitation in my 1900 manual, all the speed limitations are expressed as KIAS. Where is it? Of course I only have the UE-series manual.

the only person making coffee on a B190 is the good old co-pilot (with the panel mounted coffee machine of course).

Really? You don't have a hostie...?? Fark... :yuk:

That's something else the J32 has then... a galley!

[splatgothebugs]

MOR

Are you talking about a J41 or 31 coz the 31's I've seen are definatley wide but have been squished in a vice not giving much leg room. Also I cant ever recall seeing a galley!

Get your B190 manual have a look at the limitations section and you will find :

Page 2-3

the star * next to Vmo = 248-195*

Bottom of the page Mach 0.48

C u :ok:

splat

[MOR]

splat

Are you talking about a J41 or 31 coz the 31's I've seen are definatley wide but have been squished in a vice not giving much leg room.

The J31, J32 and J41 all have identical fuselage cross-sections. The J41 is simply a stretch, with different engines and systems. The difference is probably in the way the interior space is used - the J41 seems roomier, it uses thinner cabin sidewall material and thinner insulation.

As far as mach is concerned, in my manual all that stuff is on 2-10 and there is no star, or mention of mach. Different manuals I guess, mine is an FSI one, dated 1994 (and priced at $250 US...!!! glad I didn't have to pay for it). Comes with the East Wichita traffic pattern and everything - must be a copy of the Beech manual.

All our J32s had galleys, and at least a couple of those aircraft ended up with Origin, so they were either removed for an extra seat, or are still there (we operated them in 17Y configuration). We used to serve hot meals (pre-heated) and hot drinks, as well as hot crew meals.

Bottom line, the pilots ate well, had drinks every 30 mins, and usually some post-flight drinks at the end of the day.

I used to fly the J32 for Sabena in Belgium, and they had some serious catering on them - basically the same as their short-haul jet fleet. We used to load four bar boxes (we provided a full bar service on our flights), plus the hot meals. Tea and coffee came from the galley. We sometimes ran two cabin crew, but mostly just one.

And you guys don't even have a hostie... don't know what you're missing...!!! ;)

[Cloud Cutter]

Just to clear up any doubt, the B1900D leaves the J32 for dead on the performance stakes - that was one of the deal brakers when eagle came to choose between the two (operations out of Whangarei).

With aircraft of similar MCTOMs, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to devise that the more powerfull one (in the order of 16%), will accelerate more quickly on takeoff reducing ASDR. This also applies (along with aerodynamic conciderations) to climb performance, which as Splat said, has the B190 winning the race hands down, time after time.

MOR, you are coming from the position of never having flown the Beech. I agree with you that the Jetstream is an airliner while the Beech is an up-sized GA machine, and systems reliability is demonstrating that. The simple fact is the B190 is far more rewarding to fly, (no I haven't flown both, but there are plenty who have).

Good luck to those with up-coming interviews:ok:

[cjam]

MOR
I used to fly the meto and the 1900d, you are right about some things you've said, wrong about more tho. It does have a certain GA feel about it from the front but I always used to forgive it for that when maintaining a 2000fpm climb rate at 200kts.
That low level comment was a bit weird, I don't remember any J32's up at FL 250 enjoying the tail winds when I was flying it......I don't know their ceiling but have a feeling it isn't that high. Not having a hostie sucked but I guess it was good for the economics of the operation.
I think I would rather fly a lower performance a/c with a hostie tho, now that I have worked with them I don't think I would like to go without....it's their help with the crossword I'd miss......yep.

[MOR]

MOR, you are coming from the position of never having flown the Beech.

No, I'm not. I flew the 1900 briefly in Belgium.

cjam

maintaining a 2000fpm climb rate at 200kts.

And how many seats did you have filled, and how much fuel? Unless you are comparing two aircraft with identical fuel/pax loads, comparisons are meaningless.

That low level comment was a bit weird, I don't remember any J32's up at FL 250 enjoying the tail winds when I was flying it......I don't know their ceiling but have a feeling it isn't that high.

But you said you didn't fly the J32...

Max operating altitude:

1900D - 25,000
J32 - 26,000

We used to operate our J32s at FL230-250 mostly.

(from the flight manuals)

The other point a lot of you don't get is that the J32 was available with a water meth option, which seriously boosts climb performance in the lower levels (5 minute limit from memory).

I am almost keen enough now to get out the performance graphs for both types and see which one is really better and by how much. So much comes down to technique and load that comments like "we always used to outclimb them..." are pretty meaningless. For example, we often used to climb steeply to get up into a tailwind, or cruise-climb to get a better arrival slot into Brussels or Heathrow.

Anyway... flying any aircraft is a joy.

[cjam]

MOR...yeah that didn't really make sense did it. I meant when I was flying the 1900. I haven't flown the J32.
I didn't know they got up that high. thanks for clearing that up.
I don't know how much fuel or pax we had on with regard the 200kts/2000fpm. It was rare to be under 7000kg's tho and achieving those figures was a regular event. I think you should get out your performance graphs and do a comparison.I predict that the 1900d will out perform the 32 in every respect (apart from galleys and hosties) even with water meth.
PS. We all substitute speed for ROC and vice-versa when required so I don't think that is relavent.
Cheers.

[MOR]

I think you should get out your performance graphs and do a comparison.

LOL Ok then at the risk of being seen as the saddest person on the planet, I'll get the books out...

[cjam]

heh heh.....we appreciate you looking sad to find out what we want to know. ....just don't use the results as a conversation piece when trying to impress the girls.

[MOR]

Nah I just use my dry wit and excessive good looks to impress the girls... ahem...

Anyway... performance. Turns out this is hard, because the performance section of my 1900 basically says "yeah she goes real good, eh cuzzy bro". No charts, no tables, nothing.

So here's the plan. One of you 1900 drivers check you book and come up with some figures, and I'll do the same for the J32. Here are the assumptions:

ISA
MTOW
Minimum bleed
Climb prop RPM
Climb to FL240

We want to know:

Fuel used, distance travelled, time

How say you, Beech drivers?

[haughtney1]

Probably faster than a 146:E .....just kidding

Last time I was on a 1900 it wasnt gassing the flight deck crew though!:}

And finally...come on MOR..you know the Q400 is the dogs Bollo$ks!!!!!..(waiting for you witty repost!)

H:ok:

[splatgothebugs]

MOR

I personally dont have performance charts either but i got some off the net which are as close as possible

With the following conditions

Anti-ice on
Max ITT of 720 (interesting figure coz flight manual says 760 so it could be a little under powered)
7765kg initail climb weight

ISA day 15 deg at sea level using 2 deg per 1000ft = -35deg at FL250

SL- FL250
Time: 21mins
Distance: 51nm
climb burn: 290lbs not including taxi or start fuel

This is only a rough guide, maybe another beech driver has the charts we use and can give exact figures

splat
:ok:

[F111]

Here are some figures for the B1900D from section IV (Flight Planning Data).

Climb to FL240 (ISA temp -33)

Time: 15 mins
Dist: 42 nm
Fuel: 255 Ibs (not including taxi or start fuel)
Prop RPM: 1550
ITT: 720
Climb Speed:160 (SL to 10000') 150 (10000' to 15000') 140 (15000' to 20000') 130 (20000' to 25000')

HSC Cruise at FL240 ISA

TAS: 275 Kts
Fuel Flow: 774 Ibs/hr
Prop: 1550 RPM

And some figures from the J32 Crew Manual

Climb to FL240 (ISA)

Time: 26.1 mins
Dist: 82.7 nm
Fuel: 146 kg (321 Ibs)
97% RPM
TQE: 96.1% at start, 52.9% at F240
Flows Postion 5

HSC Cruise at FL240 ISA

TAS: 243
Fuel Flow: 258 kg(568 Ibs)/hr
97% RPM

So based on these Flight Manual figures the B1900D wins hands down. It is common knowledge that the 1900D out climbs all the other 19 seat aircraft and most of the 30+ seat aircraft such as the Dash 8-100/200 and Saab 340 A/B.

I have flown the 1900D and the J31 (not the 32), and I've found the 1900D likes(needs) to be flown at F200- F230. The J31 and the J32 (we are currently do a route study) likes( works best) between F150 and F180.

When looking at field performance the 1900D takes a big hit if you don't have anti-skid fitted. This option, which most 1900D that are on the market (being ex-US aircraft) don't have will set you back $80000 USD to fit. Anti-skid is standard on the J31/J32. If you want to fit an Autopilot to a B1900D it will cost you $200000 USD. Although the Autopilot is an option on the J31/32 most operators in Europe have it fitted. The US operators didn't, but it will only cost $60-80000 USD to have it fitted on the J31/32.

With regard to galley's, the company I flew the 1900D had a few of theirs fitted with a scaled down galley area in the front coat area. We handled out cold drinks and sandwiches.

The big difference in the aircraft is cost. The current average price of a used B1900D is $2.2M USD. A J32 will sent you back $500000 USD, so you can buy 4 for the price of 1 1900D.

[Sqwark2004]

F111,

Nice work. Very interesing figures.

Are you able to also do a comparison for a flight at FL160, with the J32 using 100% in the climb and 97% in the cruise and the B1900 using whatever it is that they use at that altitude?

Or better still. A comparison for a flight from WN-CH (or something similar) with each aircraft cruising at their optimum altitude.

Purely for interest. Not wanting to start even more arguments.

Cheers

S2K4 eva

[Don Won]

Round of milkshakes for the ladies....easy on the Ice cream ehh....

Come on guys why do you persist with this same topic over and over its been done to death...who cares!!

They both dont have hosties, Neither the Soda Stream or horsey Float realy out preform each other and as Im shure some of you may agree that they are both far better then the Aztruck......(not that theres anything wrong with the Truck)

If you fly these types in NZ maybe you should be putting your efforts into getting some better pay and conditions for yourselfs goodness knows you boys could do with it

Peace be with you

[Thump & Go]

Time for a new opening line aye Don?

[MOR]

Excellent! Great to see there is someone sadder than me... ;)

haughtney1

You naughty, naughty boy...

Probably faster than a 146

How dare you diss the queen of the skies... :*

Last time I was on a 1900 it wasnt gassing the flight deck crew though!

That's because it doesn't produce enough gas to do the job...

Besides the 757/767 has gassed a lot more people than the 146 ever did. Every turbine-powered aircraft has the potential to do this.

you know the Q400 is the dogs Bollo$ks!!!!!

Well, it certainly is part of a dog... more like the bit next to the bollo$ks, though. You'd have to be pretty desperate to like the Q400... :yuk:

[haughtney1]

MOR:p

the mighty 757/767 only gasses those that choose to stand near the toilets..............

And a transmission from Gatwick director........"bigstar 207....reduce 160kts........flybe101..(a so-called queen of the skies 146)..anything above 140 would be good..I wanna go home today!"......hoots and snorts on freq for about 5 mins afterwards!

Seriously though..you gotta love the 146..built like a tank..chinook engines..hence the STOL performance..and a decent front office for fatties!!


Cheers H

:ok:

[MOR]

haughtney1

Nope sorry, got your facts wrong there me old china. And I quote:

A survey of health symptoms was
undertaken in pilots who were members of
the British Airline Pilots Association flying
the Boeing 737, Boeing 757 and Airbus
A320. Six hundred questionnaires were
sent out to members, and 106 pilots
responded. Survey respondents were
predominantly male (104/106) and many
had extensive flying experience. With
regard to leak events (that is, leaks of
engine oil and hydraulic fluids into the
aircraft), 93/106 reported that they had
been involved in at least one. The total
number of incidents reported was
estimated to be 1,674+, with all but seven
occurring on the B757.

More at http://www.aopis.org/BALPA757SURVEYp253-262.pdf

As for speed... routinely ran to 8 miles at 250 kts, only to be slowed down by the Birdseed doing 140 at 15D... no reason at all why you can't keep the speed up on a 146, thank that nice big airbrake and monster flaps. A 146 will out-brake a 757/737/A320 any day of the week.

Yes it is built heavy, which is why bits of it don't fall off as they do on Boeings. No 146 has ever had a structural failure, or any mechanical failure, that led to an accident. Unlike your Boeings and Airbus.

And besides, the Queen has one, so it must be the best aircraft money can buy... :}

[haughtney1]

MOR:}

Why let the facts get in the way of a good story...?

and since youve got so much time to do research.....Ive got this missing aunt........

[UKpaxman]

MOR,

'I used to operate the J32 out of such tiny strips as Scatsta'

pray tell when would that have been then? Can't remember seeing a J32 there..

In reverse order

146 Flightline
ATP BWA
Dash 7 Brymon
Shorts 330 can't remember who (best forgotten really)
748 Dan air (mid eighties)

Late 70's early 80's there was a selection of smaller aircraft used - is the J32 that old?

[MOR]

Loganair operated the J32 in there for a few months from august 1991. It was at the request of the refinery at Sullum Voe, and was done on the promise of a runway extension at the "uphill" end. However, local politics got in the way and it was never done - I seem to recall there was road along the threshold that "couldn't be moved" or something. It was all politics - the Islands Council was trying to promote Sumburgh at the time, and didn't like us sneaking up to Scatsta. Loganair ceased the service, as the J32 performance wasn't really up to the short runway.

I heard that the runway was finally extended in 1996, but by then Loganair was back to being a Shorts 360 operator. I was doing other things in deepest, darkest Norwich.

The J31 entered service in 1982 and the J32 in 1988.

haughtney1

No research needed, it is all on the thread about fumes - http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=172223

The rest I knew, I'm a very learned chap you know... :p

Not sure about your aunt, maybe she was the one in 4F the other day complaining about the ride. Please take her aside and give her a good talking to. If I see her again, I'll let her know you are looking for her.

[UKpaxman]

MOR, don't remember the J32's being there, do remember some BA liveried aircraft being allowed to divert there until LSI spat the dummy out. Scatsta was lengthened (3150ft) and the road moved around the end of the extension. 146's doing a sterling job despite the 'variable' weather conditions. Nothing like a full power/handbrake on depature with a 40 knot crosswind and only a handful of passengers.....Flightline guys do a bloody good job keeping things moving.

[MOR]

Well... I do, and I was flying the plane! Checked my logbook, sure enough the entries are there. We even did some training there. I must have been in there 20 times or so. I may even have taken some pictures.

Scatsta was never as much fun as Sumburgh though. Nothing beats a visual onto 33...

We were in and out of there three times a day when the Braer sank nearby. The TAF mentioned no precipitation, and a temp well above freezing, but there was a runway friction group which gave the braking action as poor/poor/poor. When we questioned the tower, they told us it was due to oil blowing across the runway from the Braer, and they had no met code for that!

Sure enough it was very slippery, and even using full reverse we were lucky to stop.

And then there was Lerwick... ;)

[Borneo Wild Man]

I always wondered who would land on a runway "braking action poor"-now I know!

[MOR]

Absolutely no reason not to if your landing performance tables allow it (unless the crosswind is limiting of course).

Would you refuse to land at, say, Charles De Gaulle if you were flying a J32 - just because the braking action was poor? You have three times as much runway as you would need if there was no braking at all.

People who do that sort of thing tend not to last very long in airline flying...

[Borneo Wild Man]

"Braking action "poor"data reflects runways covered with wet ice"(JAROPS/FAA/BOEING).Nothing about oil.To land on a runway covered with oil would be beyond the scope of your performance manual and braking action reports at best subjective.

Furthermore,Friction Coefficient/Braking action is given as a two figure group(ie 91=poor) and percentage of runway contaminated.
Not as (poor/poor/poor).Only RVR is given as such depending on the no of Transmissometers.
Runway state is only given in Metars/Specis and sometimes ATIS ie Frankfurt)
NOT TAFs,you cannot predict present runway state.
If you ever get to fly a big jet doubtful any operator will let you land less than Braking action Medium even at CDG!

[kavu]

So, getting back to the real thread.

Who has upcoming interviews with Eagle in the near future?:)

[GloryDays]

Interviews 1st week of June, for a course 20-25th.

Good Luck to all contenders.

When do new F/O's find out where they'll be based?
Anyone know where they anticipate gaps?

[MOR]

Borneo Wild Man

Sorry, should have been more specific. The friction group wasn't part of the TAF, it was part of our pre-flight company briefing package (of which the TAF formed a part). The main contents of the pack were TAFs, METARs, SIGWX, the charts that are now 214/215, upper wind charts, etc.

We were passed the figures as a telex from the handling agent in Sumburgh. They were performed using a Tapley meter.

ICAO Annex 14 Paragraph 6.7 says that friction necessarily has to be presented for each third of a runway.

ICAO Airport Services Manual, Part 2, ICAO Doc. 9137-AN/898 chapters 9 and 10 refers to clearance of Oil and/or Grease and Debris.

The airport had decided to make the friction measurement and present it in SNOWTAM form, which gave them certain problems in getting the required information across. You aren't supposed to use SNOWTAM for other contaminants. Hence the confusion.

If you look here http://www.hilmerby.com/fom/proc_snowt.html , you will find a SNOWTAM decoder and you will note that runway friction is indeed stated as a reading for each third of the runway, with POOR being a coefficient of .25 or below.

If you ever get to fly a big jet doubtful any operator will let you land less than Braking action Medium even at CDG!

I have, and you are partly right - but we weren't in a jet, were in a Jetstream. Different picture entirely. My point remains that you are perfectly at lliberty to land in POOR conditions if your landing performance data allows you to. This data is part of your Ops Manual.

[Borneo Wild Man]

No Worries MOR
Your correct about the SNOWTAM,perhaps ICAO can come up with an OILTAM.
My point oil as a contaminant is an unknown factor-if in doubt check it out.
Your qoute"even using full reverse we were lucky to stop"

OK time for the Eagle boys to get their thread back.
Later
BWM

[MOR]

Well I would have been happy with "the runway is covered with oil, it's bloody slippery, suggest you go somewhere else".

However I was with a young captain that day, who felt he simply had to prove how crash hot he was. Silly sod nearly bent the aircraft.

If it had been me in the left seat, it would have been "back to Aberdeen".

Do I get the "saddest person on the planet" for quoting ICAO documents...??? ;)

On the subject of Eagle... do they ever take direct entry captains, or would that lead to industrial action?

[Sqwark2000]

Glory Days,

You find out your contract base on your start date, when you sign the contract. You then apply for permanent jobs at a base of your choice when they are advertised. Remember because it's a "base of your choice" doesn't mean you'll get the job. Welcome to seniority rules.

Don't worry about finding out about your base on Day1 and the lack of notice in arranging a move etc because the training takes about 8-10 weeks including the Sim trip, and whilst under training the company will put you up in the hotels etc. and position you back & forth to your home town for your days off etc. So plenty of time to arrange stuff. After your line check they generally give you 3-5 days (depending on where you have to move to & from where) to re-locate.

Good luck & don't freak over the "3 day" thing. Break it down to the 3 main events
Group Session - Can't really prepare for it, participate but don't "over" participate
SIM - Fly IFR just like you do now, use the same procedures/checklists etc as your every day flying. The only thing you have to learn is the AST-300 power settings and speeds.
Interview - Just like any other interview with personal and technical questions.


MOR - They have the ability to take DEC but there would have to be no suitable co-pilots etc from the 45-55 Co's before they could do that and that would be a very rare thing at the moment.

I know of only 1 DEC in the last 5-6 years who came from the retired NSN metro fleet.


Cheers


S2K

[MOR]

Ah well it was worth an ask...!!! :(

[haughtney1]

MOR??? have you lost all sense of self?.....your not considering going to fly the airborne antenna are you?:p

Actually..if you could get based somewhere nice and rural...close for fishing/hunting..it might not be to bad.......

[MOR]

Yeah pretty scary huh? Even considering trading in the shiny jet for the flying broomstick... not a happy thought. Mind you, these days lifestyle rules, so maybe I could tolerate ghetto flying... :E

Not keen on serving time under some snotty-nosed, know-it-all "captain" though... that might be unpleasant.

(stands back - waits for all the Eagle captains to spring to each others defence...) :}

But yes, haughtney1 , I hear you...

[Cloud Cutter]

Perhaps the Eagle captains would prefer not to fly with some over-ripe, know it all first officer............ :ouch:

[ViagraDependent]

CC

Isn't the whole idea of the three day interview to make sure that the first officer's do know it all? And that they are captian material right from the word go so that if anything should happen the F/O can take full control of the machince?

[Cloud Cutter]

No, it's to make sure they're not total dickheads. (it doesn't always work):=

[MOR]

He he he... see that's the thing I like about some of you guys, you always bite... :p

Scared of having someone who knows more than you in the right seat, are you Cloud Cutter (when you get your command)... such insecurity. Tsk Tsk.

Standing back now... :cool:

[ViagraDependent]

CC

If that is the case, then why do most (not all, but a damn good percentage of them) of the Eagle pilots I meet act like such Dickheads?

Most of them have there heads shoved so far up their own ar$es that they wouldn't even know how to sh!t if it didn't come with flash looking Stabilons, Tailits, Strakes and whatever other cr@p they had to put on those ugly machines to keep them in the air.

They seem to think that because they are flying some of the newest equipment, that makes them the best pilots. I have often overheard them berate the other Link companies, saying how slow and old their planes are. They seem to forget that the SAAB can carry 30 odd pax and the ATR's 60 odd and that both of these aircraft have the 3 D's (as well as an auto-pilot), all of which their "Business Jet comparable" machinery does not.

Come on guys. Put 2 and 2 together and try coming up with 4.

I apologies to all those normal, down-to-earth guys and girls that work for this company.

[Don Won]

Viagra, F*&^%$ eh!!

I hear that a few of the eagle hero club members are hoping to jump ship to big brother....... air nsn, but I understand the hero club committie have put a stop to this.....

[Cloud Cutter]

VD, if you read my previous posts you will see that we are talking the same language. Unfortunately the ones who carry on like you've seen are the ones that get noticed, many of us couldn't care less who's aircraft climbs faster. I for one would prefer to be getting paid more, to fly a bigger plane, with a hostie to reduce my workload (Don Won may be on to something....)

MOR, The same could be said for you, given that my little 'bite' is just a (more appropriate) reflection of your statement. I don't have a problem with people who know their stuff, as long as they're not a dick about it......:hmm:

[haughtney1]

:p

come on kids........settle..or you go to the bad mat!...

When I was last back in NZ I had to chuckle when I chatted to an eagle driver.......you should have seen his chest pump up when I asked him what he flew..aww blesss (seriously though..in NZ it was pretty desperate for a while..which is why I left)....:D

[MOR]

Yeah it makes you laugh, doesn't it. I can't think of any regional in the UK (or Europe for that matter) that flies such basic equipment, but in NZ it is the very pinnacle of technology (or so the Eagle crews would have you believe).

And they are all so scared of knowledgable, experienced pilots returning from Europe, that they invent special hurdles for them to cross.

Flying overseas is a blessing and a curse. A blessing, because you get to fly in the world's busiest and most complex airspace, to seriously big airports, and in some really crappy weather, and in decent equipment. A curse, because as soon as you get back to NZ, you are discriminated against by the aero club mentality that exists in NZ regional operations.

Anyway... what were we talking about? Eagle interviews? :E

[haughtney1]

Ive just read my last post.....and realised it may sound a bit smugg or arrogant.....certainly not meant to sound that way..more just to pass on an amusing anecdote.

MOR I know EXACTLY what you mean...wouldnt it be nice to viewed on as a bringer of experience..expertise..and knowledge..rather than a threat. Ive seen it so many times before in rural NZ..(where Im from by the way and where the heart will always be)..and the sad thing is, the regionals in NZ need as much experience as they can hang onto at the moment.

:hmm:

[Runaway Gun]

Is there an Eagle website please?

[mattyj]

www.eagleair.co.nz

...you really need to go to pilotstaffcv.com though and fill out an application..

It says they want 1000TT and 100Multi but they arn't calling those with bare mins yet..at the moment they are taking guys with 1300 to 1500 with 2-300 multi..but that pool is running out fast so keep your cell phone charged and make sure you got 3 days leave owing
:ugh:

[Cloud Cutter]

haughtney1

Experienced pilots are highly valued in eagle by management and collegues alike. Unlike Air Nelson, Eagle has no restrictions on taking overseas or expat pilots. They recently hired a couple of regional jet pilots from the UK (moving back for lifestyle), they were well recieved by other pilots and are valued members of the team. Any experience they bring having operated in the complex European airspace environment is welcomed because (unlike some people) they are humble in its implimentation.

Can we please get past this business about deluded beech drivers thinking their equipment is state of the art. The more rational among us have no problem seeing that we fly archaic, GA technology - the main point is that we enjoy it. It's a good first step to an airline career.

Good luck to those with interviews next week. If you're still waiting for a call, things are moving steadily (not quite the frantic pace of last year). I would anticipate at least two more rounds of interviews this year.

[splatgothebugs]

MOR Hautney

Like CC has said I think you will find that most EAG capts would appreciate having someone in the seat next to them with alot of experience. You are there to do a job and get the plane on the ground safely when all the preverbial **** hits the fan. To have two experienced pilots up front throwing ideas around and solving the situation is obviously a desirable thing. Really at the end of the day it dosent matter what experience you have as long as you can bring logical, usefull and practical comments and ideas into the cockpit its a good thing :D oh and good yarns

As far as EAG drivers being D$cks i think you will find it is the few rather than the many (as CC said). From personal experience I find another company shocking for never saying hello or just thinking they are gods and ignoring your friendliness, but I also have many mates in said company and dont slag the company cause I know its just the few. (something to think about but I've said this to many times and am getting sick of defending :* )

Another point to make is that up untill EAG got the Beech they were the butt of many jokes about aircraft performance and so on and so on. Do you think may be just a few of them are getting back for those comments!

Anyway thats enough Shizza for today, happy flying all and good luck to all with interviews.

splat :ok:

[haughtney1]

Splat and Cloud............couldnt agree more, my point was more a general moan about the general viewpoint as I've experienced it..indeed I was invited back for an Eagle interview not so long ago.
I wish everyone going to interviews all the best!

Cheers H

:D

[MOR]

splat

All good stuff, as far as I am concerned I take each person on their individual merits. There are good and bad in every airline.

Sadly it is the odd one or two who can make your life miserable. There is nothing worse than sitting next to a guy who is making bad decisions, and who won't listen to you. Been there, done that, didn't enjoy it.

Whatever the reason, there is a large amount of myopia in NZ commercial aviation. People who have flown in Europe are generally flying in the most technically challenging environment in aviation. Yet most NZ airlines don't recognise that experience as being worth anything at all. The CAA certainly doesn't.

I was having a chat recently to the Eagle CP, and the same attitudes came out in our chat (and no I wasn't after a job).

Because I was training in the UK, I got to see quite a few ex-Eagle and Air Nelson pilots in the simulator. They all struggled, and several got chopped. Does this mean that NZ pilots are inferior? Not at all, it just illustrates the stupidity of having so many different standards and expectations in professional aviation. If the process was standardised world-wide, life for all of us would be a lot simpler, and potentially more satisfying.

As it stands, the attitudes on show by the airlines and the CAA is a joke. I had the then-Chief Pilot at Air Nelson explain to me once that he wouldn't hire me no matter how qualified I was, because I had "jumped ship" and gone to Europe. It "wasn't fair" that I had "leapfrogged all the loyal NZ pilots" by getting to my eventual position. My experience was "not worth sh*t" because I hadn't gained it in NZ. Besides, "foreign pilots can't handle the complexities of NZ airspace". Yeah, right...:rolleyes:

That is what we are on about, not individuals or equipment. It is the attitude. Some people really need to go and see how aviation works in the rest of the world - it is an eye-opener.

Anyway... rant mode off...

[slice]

So the Air IS different in NZ !!:E

[Runaway Gun]

And so is the decision making apparently.

[JetRacer]

Is there a web site for Air Nelson??

[haughtney1]

MOR Id heard certain murmurings about the then Air Ns CP.....but that takes the biscuit!!!, I wonder was he short....had a moustache?...and two big chips on his shoulders???

aviation can do without characters like this...IMHO

H:mad:

[troppo]

MOR,
In line with what you said, some years back, a CP of a Wellington based regional/feeder airline once said to me go and get some more experience and then come back and see him. 3 years later I went back with over 2k hours and time on type and the response I got was "yeah you've got good experience, but we don't like people with PNG time because they are all cowboys" and that was the end of the conversation...go figure!
:confused:

[Raw Data]

All this sounds horribly familiar!

[MOR]

haughtney1

Only spoke to him on the phone, but he sounded short and heavily chipped!

troppo tells a familiar story. Most of these guys in Chief Pilot positions are ex-aero club, and it shows. None of them know how aviation works outside NZ, none of them have ever flown in complex airspace or large airports. They all seem to have a fear of those who have. Very much the "short man" syndrome.

NZ aviation is so insular and parochial that if it weren't so sad, it would be funny. In most other (more enlightened) industries, foreign experience is highly prized. People are encouraged to spread their wings and widen their experience and raise their skill levels. In NZ aviation, it is the reverse. Talk about having your head up your arse.

Any of the studies done into accident rates versus experience show that experience rules. Inexperience is often cited as a contributory cause in accidents, but NZ airlines would much rather pander to a convoluted idea of seniority than employ people who have significant experience.

Anyway, it is unlikely to change anytime soon.

[propaganda]

I rather think he's using the foreign experience as an excuse..
he's doesn't want Pilots with more experience than himself, that's why guy's like him stay on props ..big fish in a small pond syndrome....I've met quite a few with hugh ego's and no balls. :ok:

[Onewordanswer]

I thought NZ had the most challenging weather in the world????

[haughtney1]

Nope...its no better or worse than most other places...changeable yes.....worse..no

[Sqwark2000]

Back to the original thread topic....


Of the 5 successful candidates from the last interview round, who completed the ground course last week, have all been given start dates.


Another round coming up?


Good luck people


S2K

[Avpro]

I'm just curious...

How many interviewees were the 5 that did the ground course from? I.e. what is the interview success rate?

[Cloud Cutter]

There's normally ten and sucess rate is about 60%. Aparently calls have gone out for the next round. With 2 more aircraft in the pipelines the hiring should continue quite aggressively. Restricted mainly by training staff of which there will soon be more. Interesting times.

[haughtney1]

Just had an email of Air NZ asking if I wanted to be interviewed as they are short of guys with jet time.

Cloud...if this is happening at Air NZ...there must be a bit of rapid progression going on at Eagle.

or not...:cool:

[Cloud Cutter]

haughtney1

Yeah, that's a bit of a sore point at the moment amongst the Air NZ link airlines. There are plenty of guys/girls waiting on starts who are being surpassed by external pilots because the link airlines have kicked up a stink about the numbers being taken.

There is still what I would call rapid progression at Eagle, just not the rediculous pace of last year.

More importantly, how did you reply to Ms Hall:}

[Sqwark2000]

Whilst the cloud cutter is correct, 10 is the usual no. in a interview group, there were 8 on the last round.


haughtney1, progression is about 12-15mths for a command at the moment.

Cheers


S2K

[haughtney1]

Cloud......

The reply was thanks but no thanks for the moment.......command where I am is about 3 - 4 years (B757) I dont honestly fancy sitting in the r/h seat for the next 15 years with Air NZ...plus the way they treated me a few years back still sticks in the throat a little, part of the reason I dont live in NZ at the moment (but thats another story).
But you never say never I guess..things can change:E

[BCF Breath]

I dunno about that.
A few chaps are coming up for commands having been in for only about 4 years.

[nike]

Gidday BCF,

which fleet?

[Cloud Cutter]

The yellow one probibly

[haughtney1]

BCF..whilst 4 years is ok......I was talking about the widebody fleet.