Flight Crew Photo ID Fees Coming

[CockpitJunkie]

From March a fee will be imposed on the issue of Flight Crew Photo ID by CASA (some of this cost may be for the other parts of the check with ASIO, AFP and DIMIA). The cost is currently funded by government as part of their anti-terrorist spending to show they are doing something.

While it is currently free, CASA are not requiring (or encouraging) other than first issue licence holders to apply even though the legislation requires all applicants for a licence to have a Photo ID (and checks).

You should apply for your Photo ID now on form 639 at http://www.casa.gov.au/manuals/regulate/fcl/form639.pdf and get it certiied and send it in ASAP.

There is no point having to pay between $100 and $200 while it is currently free (ASIC is the same checks and costs $200).

Pass this on to everyone you know that has a licence, even if not current. Anyone wanting to fly will need to have one. Prospective Students should also apply well in advance so it does not slow down their training progress as you can't get a Student Licence (and therefore go solo) until you have a Photo ID.

Apply for the Photo ID now while it is still free.

And it isn't effective as people from overseas, who are presumabley the risk group, can still get to fly without checks or a photo ID. Where's the logic in that and who came up with it? Oh, CASA, another SNAFU.

http://www.casa.gov.au/manuals/regulate/fcl/form639.pdf

[Blown Seal]

Not that I don't believe you, but do you have a source for this fact?

[downwind]

it is true, rang up casa, they said in march 05 they will charge applicants a fee between 100-200 dollars

[Tinstaafl]

Just had a squiz at that form. Interesting. Towards the bottom it says that CASA collects information in accordance with various aviaton rules & regs...

...however some of the information collected seems to go way beyond what I recall is ever required within any of the quoted rules & regs.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

By all means go ahead and get this done sooner rather than later.

The people who can sign the dcuments are CFIs, DAMES and CASA delegates.

I doubt many people would think it was OK to wander into the doctor's surgery and expect them to cancel booked patients to do this. So consider folks what you are asking when you wander into the flying school and expect the CFI to drop everything with no notice and spend half an hour on this. We don't recieve any kind of compensation from CASA or the govt for this loss of working time.

So, please go to the local CASA office, they are paid to do this stuff!

[Kaptin M]

Thanks for the "heads up", Cockpit Junkie.

CFI, you state "We don't recieve any kind of compensation from CASA or the govt for this loss of working time.", but has CASA specifically prohibited you from charging the applicants for providing this service? :D
BTW, I think you'd get it done in a lot less than 30 mins - probably closer to 10 or 15...........money for jam in that case!! :ok:

[Tinstaafl]

Bit awkward for those of us overseas to get in before the bureaucratic pricks require their ID bull****.

[CockpitJunkie]

Was hoping more people would have seen this.

Hope you're all passing the info on to everyone you know.

[...still single]

Thanks for that info, CJ. Put in my FREE application for photo licence today!:ok:

[CockpitJunkie]

For everone else time is running out.

[Deaf]

Stupid question here but I have seen bizarre thing with govt forms. Should I apply for:

Flight Crew Photo ID or

CPL+PPL+SPL and Radio (already held)

or also tick the box for ATPL (figuring an overwhelmed clerk might send that out) not that I need or particularly want - but hey if the arseholes want to hassle.

[PCFlyer]

I think you should tick ...

Already held ... CPL

Applying for ... Flight Crew Photo ID


but of course it is a govt form as you said and strange things do happen

[kev_laline]

Would a Justice of the Peace be acceptable to certify copies of Passport, Credit Card, Phone bill, & passport photos?

[Zhaadum]

Guys, dont even bother applying for one before the fee is introduced. (whenever that may be :confused: )

I applied in November last year and am still waiting for one. Today I rang CASA to enquire on its whereabouts and was told it is in Canberra in a big pile of the same. They are all being held over until the amount of the fee can be determined, then the kind CASA people will ring everyone and ask for the money prior to processing it.

Not happy Jan!!!!:mad:

[Capt Claret]

When I applied for my Photo ID Licence a week or so ago, my friendly licencing clerk advised that I was about the third pilot in a week to mention the suposed fee introduction.

Friendly Licencing Clerk advised that she had enquired with HO in Cantberra and had been advised that "no decision re fees has been made".

I expect to pay nothing for my new, new, new licence.

[Zhaadum]

Just to clarify...

NEW licence issues ( inital SPL) are being given the photo ID's at no charge at the moment, if its your FIRST EVER LICENCE.

EXISTING Licence holders who have held (in my case ATPL upgrade) PPL, CPL or ATPL for a few years are NOT being issued the photo ID's. We are going to have to pay for them in the future when the fee is determined.

Happy days eh? NOT!!!

:yuk:

[p_aero]

Took CJ's advise and submitted mine in mid JAN at YMMB.
Recieved my Photo licence and Photo Flight crew ID today.
The officer who sited, stamped and signed the photos and copies of original documents said that no decision on fees has been made yet and that background checks were not being made as yet.
Maybe they will come after me for a fee when they decide to do the background checks.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Zhaadum - not quite true - I went to MB CASA office in January and was given a form but fairly strongly encouraged not to bother filling it in - however they did say they would process it if I did.


But, things being as they are, I didn't! Now back in London and regretting not chasing it up. Does anyone know of anyone UK based who fits the description? There's not a CASA bod at Australia House by any chance? Or even an Aussie qualified DAME around?

B*llocks!

UTR

(edited 'cause I can't even spell b*llocks!)

[Zhaadum]

Oh well, to those people who have received their Photo ID congratulations.

It seems different CASA offices have there own priorities I guess. Mine seems to not want to push Canberra to process my application at all.

The information I posted was exactly what was told to me by my local CASA licencing officer, yours may be more friendly and complient. Good luck everyone! :ok:

[muddergoose]

CASA's website claims it will take 3 weeks to process the documentation. I hope they take the date from the Designated persons signature or date received at CASA?

Enter photo ID in the search engine at the top of the web page and the relevant information should be at the top of the list.

Bastards!:yuk:

[QF Quoll]

It's not even legislated yet for CASA Regs, that's why NO charge. Have ASIC card and Drivers licence with address and photo ID does the same thing. It's more Gov'tment crap, remember to read the back - ORGAN DONAR - Ring CASA

[CockpitJunkie]

All applications have to be sent to Canberra, not the local office.

[muddergoose]

[B]WHAT!... Now you tell me![B]

[TLAW]

I lodged my application at Bankstown mid-January and recieved my photo id less than three weeks later. No fee charged. I already held a SPL issued prior to June last year.

[Sunfish]

Got mine last year with SPL. It did take three weeks and inquiries determined that the hold up was in ASIO not in CASA.

The applications apparently go in batches to ASIO every day or so. However they don't necessarily come out in the same batch for obvious reasons.

CASA people were very nice and helpful. I was sweating on getting the paperwork at the time so I could do my GFPT.

[gaunty]

For the record it is a fact that the whole security check/photo ID was generated by Government and DOTARS NOT CASA.

When the order came from above I was advised and assured personally by the Director that this was so on the day of the media announcement.

Why? Whether CASA thought it was a good idea or not wasn't the question, it was a Government intitative in which they necessarily would have to be involved at some disruption, cost and reoorganisation to their existing process.

In other words don't shoot the messenger, CASA are doing what they are told and politely I am sure.

PERSPECTIVE
If I recall it correctly, the gaining of my license in 1962 was a process not unlike getting a passport (which as aircrew Internationally it was) with a not disimilar cost, requirements and processing time involved.

I still posess the original with a photo, security stamped, of this impossibly young skinny kid with a signature that could still be recognised as my current one.
Whether the security service of those days was involved I do not know, but I would not be surprised if they were.
The nationality was of course then BRTISH, although I was 6th gen Oz and it is issued by Donald George himself.

The license then as it does now ? entitle you to command or crew a VH registered aircraft flight anywhere it was legally possible so to do with the license substituting as a passport.
Don't you think the nation would expect that the authorities should have some control over who does what with our stamp of approval on it.

I am personally embarrased by the notion that a fellow "Australian" citizen thinks it's OK to train terrorsts or be trained by them and then seek compensation from us through our courts for imagined injustices. How did he get a passport in the first place?

We didn't have terrorists then??? unless you count the odd hijacking, blowing up of airliners in the desert, Baader Meinhoff, Red Brigade and so on.

AND you didn't have to stand in the ALIENS queue at LHR to gain entry into the motherland. :{

So does an ICAO type pilot license carry similar weight to a passport or not?

And whats the beef now.

[John Eacott]

Gaunty,

No. My UK ATPL no longer has the photo on the front page, either, nor the assertion that "the holder may, at all times, re-enter Great Britain and Northern Ireland upon production of this document" :(

In fact the UK licence looks awfully similar to our production, even the page size, etc. And why are we becoming non ICAO standard with the photo licence :confused:

[tinpis]

Yes gaunty one wonders what use the said gentlemans passport might be if he were successful in getting it back?
OT but has there been anybody in Perth trying to sell water from your new canal yet?

:hmm:

[gaunty]

tinpis

The election is tomorrow and the bookies wont take any money either way now, unless you want to buy it. :{

God help us if we dont throw the current lot out and God help us if we do.

The canal is looking like that far one at the moment.:}

I think it is visionary, like most of the projects that have put West Oz on the map.:ok:

Kalgoorlie water pipeline put Kal and the gold industry on the map, the Pilbara Iron Ore developments account for a huge royalty and foreign income stream, with the oil, gas pipeline and gas export to Japan and China. :D

NONE of them Labour initiatives despite providing jobs and serious incomes for hundreds of thousands of thier constituents.

Water was, is and always be the lynchpin of all the development on the West Coast.

You only need go back to your geography, geomorphology and meteorology 101 to see why most continents west coasts have the same problem.

If my memory serves correctly ALL the water used in LAX and surrounding market gardens and conurbations come by canal from the Colorado River.

The range wars were about water not cattle.

The benefits to the aviation world have been dramatic, I venture we'd still be running around in clapped out F27s with bi weekly jets to Darwin.:sad:

[tinpis]

:rolleyes:

Well there ya go gaunty no farcanal and the yoof has been saved from the water cannon.
Your state can now gallop ahead
:}

[Capt Claret]

Applied late Jan through Brenda Jarrat at the local CASA office, where the service was second to none.

Photo ID licence received yesterday by registered mail, consisting of a laminated sheet with two photos of moi, ARN, Name, DoB, Nationality, Signature, Issue Date & Expiry date, which is five years hence, and a replacement licence, page one having a B&W image of moi again.

An accompanying note says, in part, "Unless it is cancelled or suspended, your flight crew licence is perpetually valid. Please note that your flight crew licence identification is valid for five years."

No charge, no account to be paid.

[CockpitJunkie]

Time is running out.

You'll have to be quick.

Send it to Canberra.

[John Eacott]

Time is running out: no it isn't! The FCL at Canberra were good enough to spend some time on the phone this morning, and the current situation is:

Only new licences are being processed at the moment
Existing licence holders are being dealt with ATPL first, CPL next
Charges will be raised on all photo licences, even those already issued
Costs are:

Full security check & licence issue $147.50
Renewal $132.00
Photo ID no security check $93.50
Photo ID, police check only (ASIC holder) $36.00
Replacement for lost licence $25.00

So the office issuing licences have suspended all but new issues, they don't have the manpower to process applications from existing licence holders. Even the sky gods applications are in the box under the desk ;) They hadn't thought of processing the ASIC holders applications (speed up the backlog), but took the suggestion on board, and might attack them earlier.

131757, Canberra Flight Crew Licencing.

[kookabat]

Charges will be raised on all photo licences,

Effective when?

[John Eacott]

kookabat,

As already said:

Charges will be raised on all photo licences, even those already issued

I'm only passing on the result of a phone call this morning to CASA FCL Canberra: call them yourself, let us know how you get on, but from that call it would appear that they intend sending out invoices for licences already issued.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[kookabat]

Has this turned into the thread to discuss the whole security thing on? In the absence of anything else... At least it hasn't been locked yet...:E

Just quickly, received a letter from Mr Anderson recently with this on it:
In your letter, you query as to why pilots of ultra light aircraft will not be subjected to background checking. Under the new regulations, pilots of all powered aircraft will be required to undergo background checking.

Well THIS is a change! On the DOTARS website we have this:
Sport aircraft are not included in the category of aircraft required to be secured from theft. Background checking will not be carried out on pilots of sport aircraft and they will not be required to have a photographic licence

So our friends over at RAA won't get away easily either.

Next point from the letter: The implementation of the new regulation is an instrument devised to mitigate the risk associated with the unlawful interference with aviation and is not intended to specifically be an anti terrorism tool
Alrighty then. What is an act of unlawful interference?

Acts of Unlawful Interference (Definition given for guidance purposes)
These are acts or attempted acts such as to jeopardise the safety of civil aviation
and air transport, i.e.
• unlawful seizure of an aircraft
• unlawful seizure of an aircraft on the ground
• hostage-taking on board aircraft or aerodromes
• forcible intrusion on board an aircraft, at an airport or on the premises of an
aeronautical facility
• introduction on board an aircraft or at an airport of a weapon or hazardous
device or material intended for criminal purposes
• communication of false information such as to jeopardise the safety of an
aircraft in flight or on the ground, of passengers, crew, ground personnel or
the general public, at an airport or on the premises of a civil aviation facility. (from https://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/asrs/state_casa_regs.pdf)
Sounds like an act of terrorism to me. So in being designed to mitigate risks from 'acts of unlawful interferance' they're trying to stop acts of terrorism... so that'd make it an anti terrorism tool, right?:yuk:

Make any sense to anyone at all???

[Pinky the pilot]

Kookabat; Remember that all this bureaucratic b******t is merely to be seen as a Government seeing to be doing something about a percieved problem.
And as a Govt initiative it does'nt necessarily have to make sense! And if it can also be used to raise more revenue then all the better!!

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Spotlight]

Why would Capt Claret above even apply for this? Obviously an owner operator and venal with it. Previous posts indicate he holds an ATPL. ASIC as well I would surmise. So, a drawer full of pilot documentation already but HEY this one has my picture on it and I might get one of the first one's.

Give him a call if you need to organise a Lemming Drive.

Nine thousand odd sitting on their hands plus this dropkick!

[Icarus2001]

Putting on my bush lawyer hat which I had lent to Sunfish.;) How can they charge retrospectively? CASA fees and charges are required to be published and then you enter in to a contract with them when you apply for the licence.

Here is a link to their website and the scale of fees...http://www.casa.gov.au/corporat/fees.htm

[gaunty]

Spotlight old chap, were you to know of the actual quals and experience level of our friend Claret, you would be moved to apologise grovelwise, if indeed you didn't expire from terminal embarrassment prior.:mad:

"Dropkick" is a good description of some, but it does not apply to Claret, I suppose you have a mirror at home.:confused:

[Capt Claret]

Get out of bed on the wrong side Spotlight?

[Spotlight]

Okay! I must in all good consciense apologise for my intemperate comments. Not so much getting out of bed on the wrong side as not making it there after a long tour.

However I do not see why anyone would jump the gun by applying early for this nonsense. It can have escaped no-one that there is a collective negativity toward the concept; the whole process thus far has been poorly articulated and/or implemented and to many minds is either, (a). somehow sinister or (b). a monumental exercise in futility with an accompanying price tag.

CASA themselves have been less than enthusiastic and indeed their own instructions to pilots already licensed is NOT to apply, they will contact you at the appropriate time.

From my discussions with the odd bureacrat involved in the tangled web of agencies and departments who have to have input, and administer the results of some bright sparks bright idea, there is a lot of detail that yet needs coherent direction.
e.g, for those of us already holding an ASIC, why have the system clogged up with a redundant series of checks and paperwork.

Lastly, inevietable as it is, for my mind I cannot for the life of me see what is hoped to be achieved. In 20 plus years of holding professional licences I can think of no occasion when establishing my bono-fides would have been enhanced by having a photo on my licence. In fact my licence sits year in year out in a pocket of my nav bag rarely seeing the light of day.

[zepthiir]

The reason to apply for the licence now from most pilots point of view I believe was to avoid the hefty fee they charge for the security checks at least for the first issue of the licence.

Like it or not the photo licence and security checks are here and I cannot see them being removed as the government wants to be seen as taking an active role in the security of our country. Lets face it, September 11 is still taking its toll on our industry years later.

As for CASA charging people for the new licence after already issuing the licence at no charge I really dont see how they could do that. I am not trying to call you a liar John but I believe Icarus is right. If CASA try to charge you for something months after sending it to you for free I am sure there would be a huge amount of problems. You can only charge someone for something they have agreed to purchase. When I called licencing a month ago before applying for my licence I was told there was no charge at this time. No mention was made that I would be charged at a later date anyway so legally I dont see how they could bill me for it.

But basically spotlight, I know you arent happy about the way CASA are doing things at the moment with these licences, I dont think many of us are, but complaining about it isnt changing CASA's mind. May aswell try and avoid spending more money in an already expensive industry to be involved in.

[CockpitJunkie]

The new Regulations have come in. However, there still are some holes in them and problems.

Everyone will need a photo ID by 31 December 2005, otherwise you will not be able to fly.

Everyone, including those who have already applied will need to reapply for a photo ID so as police records checks can be done.

There will be a new form coming.

There have been no charges legislated currently, so you can still get a Photo ID for free, at least for the next few weeks until an amendment is processed to fix the holes and anable charges to be introduced.

As soon as the new form is available, go for it and get one (some of you again, and sorry about that - couldn't predict it would be SNAFU) to avaoid the charges.

Suggest get it ASAP to avoid the charges and avoid the last minute rush and delay towards the end. On 1 January 2006, no photo ID = no fly.

[SsaKcaj]

I spoke to them just today and was told that ALL photo IDs will be charged (as John said), even those that have already recieved and/or applied for the photo licence.

Current licence holders are not being processed, and those who have already applied will be required to fill in the new form when it comes out and pay the fees.

I agree, I don't know how they can charge retrospectively, but that is what I was told from CB.

[CockpitJunkie]

An Update

Still apply for your Photo ID now to avoid the charges. If you have a Photo ID apply for the Police check now. When the AFP Police check fee comes in it will be around $35+

CASA currently can't charge for anything to do with Photo ID or background checks as there is no legislation to currently allow them to do it (SNAFU).

However, an amendment is being rushed through in the next week or so to introduce charges.

The legislation cannot be retrospective for charges. So if your application is sitting in front of them in Canberra, they cannot charge whether it is for a full Photo ID and all checks, or just for the AFP Check (for those who already have a Photo ID issued since July 2004).

For the latest on photo licences (and they have changed the title) see http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/photo/index.htm

There are changes affecting persons under 18 and holders of current ASIC cards.

Extract below from CASA website for others:

Application forms
During the next two weeks, applicants wanting a new flight crew licence (note this does not include the reprinting of an existing licence) are required to fill in an application form http://www.casa.gov.au/manuals/regulate/fcl/form639.pdf and a criminal records check - consent form http://www.casa.gov.au/manuals/regulate/fcl/policecheck.pdf

Changes to requirements
Starting 10 March 2005, CASA may only issue a flight crew licence or special pilot licence if the applicant meets the requirements in the new regulations. If you have applied for a flight crew licence or special pilot licence recently and you have not been issued with the licence, you should complete the criminal records check - consent form. http://www.casa.gov.au/manuals/regulate/fcl/policecheck.pdf

Still apply for your Photo ID now to avoid the charges. If you have a Photo ID apply for the Police check now. When the AFP Police check fee comes in it will be around $35+

There is supposed to be an electronic application form coming out to assist in completing details online and then print out for use.