Flight Engineers in Canada

[FlyinLow]

I have been reading this forum for awhile now but just recently I became a member.

My question is how do you become a Flight Engineer, I have seached this on the net and on Transport Canada's website but still I have no idea.

Are there colleges that offer the flight engineer program or what?

Any replies would be helpfull


thanks.

[Engineer]

My question is how do you become a Flight Engineer,

Simple answer don't it is a dying trade so become a pilot or if interested in engineering, a licenced Engineer (that is a pilot with brains :) ) :ok:

[FlyinLow]

Well I am finishing my 3rd year (of 4 year program) of mechanical engineering degree. Also I have PPL I want to get a CPL once I finish university. But just to stand out in this very highly comepetitive feild I was planning to also get a flight engineer certification.

[WJman]

To become a flight engineer you need to become a licensed AME first. First 2 to 3 years in Aerospace technology depending on the province and the program, then 2 years minimum of apprenticeship. You then must write and pass your Transport exams, when I did them it was 7 exams. After logging enough apprentice time and passing your exams you are then a licensed AME (Aircraft Maintenance Engineer).
If you still want to become a flight engineer you then will need to have a maintenence endorsement on type i.e. 727,747 classic. This is a technical course only, systems, avionics ect.. and is usually between 4 to 6 weeks long depending on the type, this will allow you to sign off that type. After passing this you could then apply for a job as an FE on that type, at which point you would once again go through crew training, procedures and crew endorsement on type ect... However currently in Canada when you are an FE it is considerd a non maintenance job and after 2 years of flying if you have not done any hands on work your AME license will be revoked.
Very few companies still have actual Flight Engineers, one that I can think of in Canada that does is Morningstar (727's), ICC had them (A-300B4's).
Right now most companies in Canada that fly 3 crew aircraft 727's mostly use Second officer's, this is a low time pilot who get's the crew training on the Flight Engineer's station. He will be limited in knowledge as to aircraft system's and such but the salary is about a quarter of what a licensed engineer would make. Engineers are a dying breed, I'm not sure if larger 3 crew aircraft like the DC-10 and 747 classics require and engineer as per TC or not, but we will find out when ACE brings their 10's online soon.There still are FE positions overseas, but they go as quickly as older birds are retired. Hope this helps.

[offshoreigor]

WJman is correct.

You must be a fully licensed AME. Although most companies nolonger utilize FE's there are still some positions out there but you will have to look hard and really, at the end of the day, your pay would not be significally different. So why bother?

Cheers,

:ok: OffshoreIgor :ok:

[WJman]

Actually Flight Engineers at the places I worked were paid quite a bit more than Second officer's, they had more responsabilities and experience though.
I believe at ICC an SO made 30K and an FE was about 70K, I never aasked what Morningstar was but I would guess there would be a significant diffrence or they would n ot be able to keep their FE's.

[DDDOF]

Not to hijack this thread but I've always wondered.
If sa a Heavy Diesel or an Auto Mechanic were to eant to become an AME, would they get any credit for their previous experience.
Or would they have to jump through all the hoops as someone with zero experience.
Always wondered?

[WJman]

No they would not get any credit. They would still need to graduate form an Aerospace technology course to be able to write their AME exams. There are also 2 routes you can take
M1 license for smaller prop aircraft, pistons and the like, I forget the weight limit.
M2 license for larger aircraft, Jet's, large turbo props and even large props.
They may find it easier to get that very hard to get initial apprentice job on piston engine birds though. The engines are alike but the standards and regs are totally diffrent.
I have heard of some companies not wanting to hire ex-auto mechs as they were worried they would not take the standards seriously enough.
Jet's obviously a totally diffent story.