FI Rating for military QFI

[3 Point]

I'm a military QFI, current on Chipmunk and also hold an FI rating which is now due for revalidation. LASORS states that a QFI, current on military SEP aircraft can have an FI rating issued (provided he has at least CPL theoretical knowledge, I hold an ATPL) but it has no advice on re-validating based on the CFS QFI category. The last time I re-validated I submitted evidence that I was a current QFI on the Chippy and they re-validated me on the basis that if I was qualified for innitial issue then that was good enough for re-validation.
They have just returned my application for re-validation saying that I have to attend a seminar. Now, I don't mind doing this but there are no seminar dates available now before the rating expires so I'm a bit cross that the goalposts seem to have shifted in secret (nothing in LASORS) and I will now probably be unable to do my job as a CFI for a couple of months until I can get re-validated.
Are there any other military/civil guys who have experience of re-validating the FI rating based on their QFI category who can suggest any options? Thanks all.

[BEagle]

I suspect that this is due to a change of policy within SRG. Previously there were sensible people able to use their discretion, now it's just 'rules is rules' jobsworthism.

I was recently asked by a current mil QFI on Das Teutor, who holds an ATPL, whether her lapsed SEP Class Rating could be renewed 'by paperwork' - her recency, experience and qualifications being more than enough for initial issue of a PPL with SEP Class Rating. So I rang the CAA on her behalf but was frustrated dealing with a total idiot who couldn't understand that, if someone has the requisite qualifications for initial issue, then those should equally be used for re-validation or renewal. "There's nothing in JARs to give dispensation" was this jobsworth's comment - and he refused even to consider making a policy decision over the phone......

I shall be writing to the head of FCL today on a number of issues and will try to get the general principle of 'good enough for initial issue is good enough for re-validation/renewal' agreed. But I wouldn't hold your horses!

If you're a military QFI, the instructional recency for initial qualification means recency on military SEP a/c in the course of your flying duties; although you might be current on a civilian Chipmunk, if your current QFI-ing is on non-SEP Class military a/c I don't think that you'll get much joy from the CAA. As an A2 QFI, when I finished Bulldog QFI-ing and regained my A2 Cat on the VC10, I certainly couldn't keep my civilian FI Rating valid other than by the methods required of any other civil FI. That used to be by 2 yearly test, then it was the '2 out of 3' requirement every 3 years, now the '2 out of 3' requires that 1 of the 3 has to be a test every other time - i.e. 6 yearly test.

[3 Point]

Beagle,

Thanks for your sensible reply, I was hoping you might chip in. I am current military Chipmunk QFI, re-validated my A1 cat three weeks ago and I'm flying as flight Chipmunk QFI in a military unit so I am "recent on a military SEP a/c in the course of my military duties".

I was hoping that you might be able to suggest some obscure reference in LASORS or elsewhere which might let me resolve the problem, I've looked and I certainly can't find anything! I'm going to suggest to them that, as I have 100 instructional hours in 3 years and 30 in the last year, plus the A1 Chipmunk revalidation three weeks ago that should count as two out of three and there should be no need to attend the seminar, fingers crossed!

As I said in my first post, I'm rather aggrieved that this change of policy which was not (to my knowledge) made public, will result in my being unable to prevent my rating from lapsing and consequently I will be unable to continue working as CFI at my club. I knew the guy who was head of FCL a while ago but he has moved on, can you suggest a name to whom I might write asking for help. I'm thinking perhaps an extenison of the FI Rating to allow me to continue working as CFI then attend a seminar and revalidate as soon as possible.

Your comments about the mil Tutor pilot trying to renew her lapsed SEP rating are interesting. I have a couple of my guys with lapsed SEP ratings who are current mil Chipmunk pilots and we were hoping to renew their civil rating by paperwork in the spring time - I've sucessfully done this before. I'd be interested to hear if you make any progress with her; otherwise I've got access to a miltary pilot who is also a PPL examiner so I guess I'll get him to fly a skill test with them in our Chippy.

Thanks for your comments

[BEagle]

Try [email protected] He is boss of FCLD and also an ex-mil RW pilot.

Your proposal seems eminently sensible to me!

A while ago I hopped into the back of a military unit's Chippie to do the 'dual training flight' requirement on a chap who needed to maintain a SEP Class Rating (that rule has now been eased) - a couple of steep turns, a PFL and some circuits at Merryfield. It seemed a bit daft - which is no doubt why they changed the rule and now allow any flight with a mil QFI in course of normal service duties to count!

[3 Point]

Thanks Beagle, I had an e-mail this morning from the licencing offecer dealing with my application and I replied to that so I'll see if that produces anything. If not I'll try Graham Forbes.

Interested in your Chippy dual flight to revalidate a mil pilot. I have an e-mail from FCL saying that a dual flight must be in a mil SEP a/c and in the course of the mil pilot's duties to count for re-validation. That said, any test flight (sucessfully passed of course) can also count in lieu so I have re-validated several mil pilots based on their annual IRT etc but not a dual training flight (unless in SEP).

Do you mind if I e-mail you to discuss further?

3 Point

[BEagle]

3-point, yes, the military flight for re-validation must be as you state. The one I did was in the early days of JARs in Jul 2000 and was in the days before the current ruling came in.

Please feel free to PM or e-mail me.

[3 Point]

Following more e-mails and phone calls with FCL I have e-mailed to "policy" for their opinion. I was told that LASORS 2005 has more details of re-validaiton for FI rating for QSP with current military QFI category on SEP. All very well said I, but how am I supposed to follow advice before it is published? Stony silence ensued!

I am now booked on a seminar in March, the first I can get to and it looks more and more like I will be out of business as an instructor for two months in Feb and March; not happy:mad:

I'll post any further news.

3 Point

[BEagle]

LASORS 2005 was released last Friday, you can download it from:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=156088

The pertinent section you're looking for is:

For the holder of a FI(A) to revalidate the rating they
must complete 2 of the following requirements:

a) Complete at least 100 hours of flight instruction on
aeroplanes as FI, CRI, IRI or as Examiner during
the period of validity of the rating. To include at
least 30 hours of flight instruction within the 12
months preceding the expiry date of the FI rating,
10 hours of this shall be instruction for an IR if the
privileges to instuct for an IR are to be revalidated.

b) Attend a FI refresher seminar approved by the
Authority within the validity period of the FI rating.

c) Pass an FI (A) proficiency check within the 12
months preceding the expiry of the FI rating. For
CFS Category Instructors, a CFS Standardisation
check on a single-engine piston aeroplane
completed within the 12 months preceding the
expiry date of the FI rating, will be accepted in lieu
of an FI(A) proficiency check.

d) For at least each alternate revalidation of a FI(A)
rating the holder shall pass a proficiency check.

As you will have done your '2 out of 3' requirements before the expiry date, and as one of the '2' was your A1 re-cat, someone at the Belgrano seems to have given you duff gen as there is nothing I can see which requires you to do a seminar!

Contact me in the New Year and I'll brief a FIE accordingly, so hopefully you'll be able to get your rating re-validated quite easily......

[3 Point]

Beagle,

Yes, I've seen and downloaded LASORS over the weekend. the conversation I had with FCL was on Tuesday last week, before the publication date!

The point I tried to make them understand (I don't know how sucessful I was) is that it is unreasonable for them to change their requirements, not make the changes public until it is too late for pilots to meet the new requirements and then simply shrug it off and say tough luck. If I was a full time FI I'd be out of work for a couple of months! As it is the people at my Flying Club are none too pleased that they will have no CFI for a while!

As to whether I will have met the 2 out of three, I'm not too sure about having the 100 hours in 3 years and 30 in the last year; there seems to be no precise statement of exactly what counts as an hour's instruction. I asked the guy from FCL if my time instructing in the military counted and he said no; so teaching a student in a civilian Chipmunk how to do stalling at the Flying Club counts but teaching a service helecopter pilot how to do stalling in a service Chipmunk dosen't?? I asked him that question specifically, he said no; crazy!

I have the hours but many are in military aircraft, some are in Harrier (probably won't count) some in Chipmunk (should count but I've been told they don't), some flying military training tasks with military pilots in Piston Provost and JP, some hours are teaching for JAR PPL at the flying Club (no problem counting them) some are club check flights, some are type conversion training for qualified pilots who have never flown PA28, some are difference training for tailwheel, VP props etc etc (should count as this is a JAR requirement) etc etc. I'm sure you can think of other types of instruction but, do you know of a definitive statement anywhere which sets out exactly what counts as "instruction"?


3 Point

[BEagle]

FCL are being very picky! As far as I'm aware, instruction in the same class should count. Harrier wouldn't, JP wouldn't but Piston Provost might?

I'm afraid there's an element of "Don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answer to" here.....

[3 Point]

Just to finish off this thread in case anybody else is in the same boat. Following advice from Beagle and with the new information on this subject in LASORS (copied above by Beagle), I have been to On Track Aviation at Wellsbourne today and they have revalidated my rating. Thanks to all for advice and help received!

3 Point :D

[BEagle]

Excellent! Glad that commonsense prevailed in the end!

A bottle of Pusser's finest when you come to visit us at the Covert Oxonian Aerodrome then please!