UK Night VFR?

[Long Briefing]

Whilst flying into Shoreham IFR at night a few weeks ago in VMC, I was surprised to hear A/C being cleared to T/O with a "Night VFR" clearance. I thought all flights at night in the UK were IFR. Has something changed I don't know about?

[Special VFR]

Nothings changed. Wasn't military was it? Military can fly 'night VFR' but civil ATC still can't issue them with a clearance to do so!

[bumpsville]

Oh for a "See and Be Seen" option for light acft in class G at night, how many people would this make happy? How are we supposed to use all the techniques taught us without the the airspace to apply them?

[Legs11]

SVFR is right, no matter how silly it may be, there is still no civil vfr at night in the UK.

Looks like someone at Shoreham needs reminding. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[ShyTorque]

Police aircraft also have exemptions from the normal night IFR regs. They fly in "visual contact" which means they do not have to comply with the normal 1000ft above obstructions within 5nms of track etc, instead they fly to the lower Police Air Operations Manual limits. Special VFR is still required in Class D and above.

[Numpo-Nigit]

ShyTorque may have hit the nail on the head. The Sussex Police helicopter is based at Shoreham.

[NextLeftAndCallGround]

From a pilot's point of view, flying a small aircraft at night around the likes of Shoreham is quite straightforward - it must be done under IFR.

As I recall, you're complying with the IFR if you fly below 3000ft, remain clear of cloud and in sight of the surface - effectively much the same as one would during the day. There are some licensing and rating considerations and I think these get more complicated if you want to go above 3000ft but if a pilot wants to fly around in what, for all practical purposes, is 'VFR at night' he/she can below 3000ft in Class G airspace.

From the ATC perspective it's a little more complex. All clearances must be IFR (I'm not that familiar with Shoreham but I don't think they have the airspace to issue SVFR clearances - so let's not cloud the issue with that) and that means that ATC have to apply Standard Separation. This can be achieved by the controller keeping all aircraft in sight and ensuring that they are not going to collide. This is fine for a small number of aircraft in the circuit but not so easy for aircraft wanting to join the circuit from the local area and not yet in view of the tower, for example. This is why things slow down a lot at night in this sort of environment.

But the bottom line is that civil ATC cannot issue a 'night VFR' clearance (there is simply no such beast). Even if it was a military aircraft, Shoreham is a civil airport/ATC and the rules in the civil book apply.

[ShyTorque]

NLACG,

I think you are correct.

As I understand it (I might be out of date on the PPL regs)outside controlled airspace above 3000ft, adequate terrain clearance of 1000ft above the highest obstacle within 5nms applies and quadrantals / semi-circular flight levels should be flown.

An IMC rating is needed for a private pilot outside CAS if the vis is less than 1.5nm or if a passenger is carried above 3000ft in IMC or below 3000ft in vis less than 3nm.

Inside controlled airspace the pilot needs an IR. The 1000ft/5nms terrain clearance applies unless the aircraft is landing or taking off or is otherwise directed by an ATSU.

[Check 6]

I have a question. How does one receive night training in the UK without being on an IFR flightplan?

i.e. may a PPL student receive instruction in night VFR circuits?

I am just comparing the regulations in the U.S. with the U.K.

Cheers,

[Chilli Monster]

Check 6

You do not need to file an IFR flight plan in the UK unless you are flying in controlled airspace. So night training iaw IFR does not require a FPL outside CAS. All flight inside CAS requires a FPL, whether day or night, so the question doesn't arrive

(Note - definition of a Flight Plan - Information pertinent to a flight or portion of a flight that will enable the issuance of an ATC Clearance, so even a formal flight plan submission is not always required).

Th other thing to remember is that ANYONE can fly IFR - that doesn't mean they can fly in IMC. For that they will require a UK IMC rating or an IR. It's a common misconception that people say flight in IFR when they mean IMC - the two are totally different.

CM

[Check 6]

Chilli Monster, thanks for the info.

I understand the difference between IFR and IMC.

In the U.S. to "file" an IFR flight plan, even in VMC, you must be IR, AND you must be instrument current, AND your aircraft must be instrument capable.

That is one big difference between the CAA and the FAA regulations.

Thanks again for the lesson, it makes sense now.

Cheers,

[APP Radar]

Flying VFR at night is also not allowed in Portugal, However Portuguese ATS Authority published a special authorisation allowing Civil Medical Emergency Flights to fly VFR (they fill a VFR flight Plan) at night. These are almost always heli's bt sometimes aircrafts to ant they fly within C and G airspace.
Controllers must consider them as IFR regarding separations but some aircrafts and/or pilots may not be able for IFR flight.
...

[fireflybob]

NLACG, how can you be in sight of the surface at night, unless there's a full moon?!

In the UK you have to surely comply with the minimum height rule for IFR - ie 1,000 ft above the highest within 5 nm, subject to instructions from ATSU, on published approach etc.

[twistedenginestarter]

As far as I am concerned you cannot avoid IFR rules at night. That means you are only permitted below 1000 feet above your obstacle height if you are taking off, landing or doing associated things eg circuits.

Unless you have an instrument rating/IMC, your licence of course enforces VFR conditions as well, particularly remaining clear of cloud.

[2 sheds]

Chaps
Try *reading* the IFRs!

[Chilli Monster]

Firefly Bob

[quote] Below 3000' - clear of cloud and in sight of the surface. <hr></blockquote>

At night why can't you? Street lights, vehicle lights. As long as you can define a surface then you are compliant - n'est pas? <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

CM

[fireflybob]

Chilli Monster - I agree that under certain conditions you could argue that you are "in sight of the surface" but on a pitch black night over open country I think it's highly debatable.

Surely the intention of the Act is that you can avoid colliding with the surface by visual means. Could you put your hand on your heart and guarantee avoid doing so on a pitch black night? I don't think so!

Is a light on the surface the surface??

[ 13 January 2002: Message edited by: fireflybob ]</p>

[Chilli Monster]

No more than you can by flying in cloud

It all boils down to the P word - Planning.

CM