Blair Force One [Archive]

theguardian

6th Mar 2002, 18:48

Anybody at Heathrow around 6am when the Prime Minister's chartered flight was held in a queue for 45 minutes, much to the annoyance of those on board?? Rumours that it was a NATS protest. Any information gratefully received, especially from anybody also stuck in the queue...

jongar

6th Mar 2002, 19:25

Why does Blair have to fly from LHR. Why not fly from one of the secondary airports ??

barcode

6th Mar 2002, 20:58

Yet again ---------Journo Alert !!!--------------

sky9

6th Mar 2002, 21:15

He is quite open about it barcode and asking for info. Hardly underhand.

hapzim

6th Mar 2002, 21:18

Just like the rest of us . Take your turn when it arrives . Go with the slot to ease the flow or first come first served . Just be at the gate with plenty of time to spare <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />

Send Clowns

6th Mar 2002, 21:47

Don't complain about journalists openly asking questions here (can't be more open than calling yourself "theguardian"). Good to see a journalist looking for informed opinion, rather than publishing misinterpretation as usual. Unfortunately I know nothing of the incident, though it sounds very much like the aircraft was treated like every other, rather than deliberately obstructed as a protest. This would however annoy many members of the current government, who feel themselves to be exceptions to all the rules and their own advice.

scroggs

6th Mar 2002, 21:49

Don't know anything about your specific question about NATS, but both arrivals and departures are often delayed at that time of day. As hapzim implied, each aircraft has to take its turn in the queue, howver long it might be.

Capt PPRuNe

6th Mar 2002, 22:16

Was this during one of Tony Blairs recent visits to the UK?

silverknapper

6th Mar 2002, 22:19

No doubt thay will deny it happened, someone else will admit it then re nationalise NATS to teach them a lesson!

spitfire747

6th Mar 2002, 22:53

who is Tony Blair ?

allthatglitters

6th Mar 2002, 23:58

What is a Tony Blur?

Trinity 09L

7th Mar 2002, 01:21

Needed time for make up, dress sense? and ensure all ground cameras were present for photo opportunity!

spud

7th Mar 2002, 14:17

It's time for a change of Tone.. .Sorry, couldn't resist it.

Polar_stereographic

7th Mar 2002, 14:24

I think he's the foreign secretary.

greatorex

7th Mar 2002, 15:53

His frequent flyer statements must be longer than the AIP! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

sky9

7th Mar 2002, 15:59

I suppose he goes on holiday with the airmiles <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .Worse than an Accenture consultant

poetpilot

7th Mar 2002, 16:26

He'd wait a lot longer if he tried to take a train.. .. .Though on reflection he's probably forgotten what a train is...

Dan Dare

7th Mar 2002, 16:56

I don't think I would know if Mr Blir was on board. He'd be subject to the same delays as eveyone else (except not subject to a slot as a STS/STATE, so no urgency to get him away on time).

Sonic Cruiser

7th Mar 2002, 17:20

Dan Dare. .. .Can you not tell whether it is a special flight from the callsign, one that would not normally be associated with that aircraft / Route.. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Queens flight with BA out of EGLL to the windies use speedbird 9*** . .or something like that. Don't BA also use callsigns in the 9 thousands for positioning flights to Cardiff etc. Maybe that would be a clue.. .If he was on a scheduled flight then you wouldn't have any clues, if he was schduled he would be held like everyone else.. . . . [ 07 March 2002, 15:52: Message edited by: Sonic Cruiser ]

EX FTE

7th Mar 2002, 18:42

His flight was held in a 45minute queue at 6am yesterday? I presume that was his inbound from the CHOGM meeting in Oz? That being so are you referring to a queue on the ground or a hold in the air?. .. .Queue on the ground could be due to shortage of gates / ramp space although since he flies BA and is the PM you think that there would be some priority allocated to him!!. .. .Hold in the air at 6am would seem odd, I thought that Heathrow is relatively queit at that time?. .. .The NATS protest idea is "interesting" but I think implausible. To have him stuck in a queue NATS would have to have held up all the others in the queue as well. That would require a concerted effort from more than one controller plus a supervisor. Also the various Ops Desks of each affected airline would be on the phone to NATS quicker that you can imagine.

Warped Factor

7th Mar 2002, 20:19

EX FTE,. .. . <blockquote>quote:<hr />Hold in the air at 6am would seem odd, I thought that Heathrow is relatively queit at that time?<hr /></blockquote>The 6am to 7am hour is pretty busy these days.. .. .We're usually holding by 05.45am as the traffic that is not allowed to land before 6am for noise reasons starts to turn up.. .. .Because of the above holding delays just after 6am are routinely 20mins or so. . .. .There's probably between 30 and 40 arrivals every morning between 6am and 7am.. .. .WF.

Standard Speeds

7th Mar 2002, 22:44

Serves him right, the p***k.. . . . [ 07 March 2002, 18:49: Message edited by: Standard Speeds ]

Standard Speeds

7th Mar 2002, 22:48

Having said that, I could not conceive that it could ever be done deliberately! Maybe a third runway, sixth terminal (assuming the fifth gets completed) and blind eye to the noise lobby would prevent some of the delays!. .. .Hope not to have caused too much upset with pseudo anti-labour/President Blair dissent!

DIDDLYSQUAT

8th Mar 2002, 03:28

informed opinion.i was informed by another friend working that morning , that the pm arrived during an extremely busy period associated with typical south side lack of stands.his a/c rolled to block81 and would normally vacate to the south for the royal suite.however several a/c were already insitu just off the runway awaiting the xsanadu of an available stand.to follow them would have meant further delay and consequently he was instructed to vacate right to expedite his arrival to the rs.in summary , he got there as quick as possible but more importantly as quickly as he deserved.

ATCO Two

8th Mar 2002, 04:02

Hi DS,. .. .I was on duty at the time, and what you describe was exactly what happened. The flight was given priority in the air, and was subjected to much less delay on the ground than comparable T4 traffic at that time in the morning. Vacating 27L to the North was the most expeditious option in the circumstances.

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

8th Mar 2002, 14:31

EX FTE. I'm curious about your knowledge of ATC operations - just how does a "supervisor" become involved and how come delaying one aeroplane means delaying everyone else? We routinely take traffic off the holds out of their natural sequence to provide for the best landing rate. However, I do agree that a "NATS protest" is simply not on... and any airline type who would even think of such a thing is barking mad.

Captain Spunkfarter

8th Mar 2002, 16:27

EX FTE. .. . <blockquote>quote:<hr />since he flies BA and is the PM you think that there would be some priority allocated to him!! <hr /></blockquote>He was given priority you fool. He was delayed only around 15 minutes on the ground rather than the 30 minutes - 1 hour which most T4 operators face on arrival. Do some research before telling others how to do their jobs.

Bright-Ling

8th Mar 2002, 18:02

mmmmmm you don't get much choice when STS/STATE FLT is in Field 18 and someone reminds you to put a D in a circle at the end of yr strip - whether you love him or hate him.. .. .B-L

Whipping Boy's SATCO

8th Mar 2002, 20:31

RogerOut, B'Ling has a point. Whilst you may not wholeheartedly agree with the categorisation system, it is quite clearly defined in MATS Pt1.

Check 6

8th Mar 2002, 22:18

A technical question for you ATCO's. In the UK would you put STS/HEAD or STS/STATE in block 18 if PM Blair on board? . .. .In the U.S. our President would be denoted by STS/HEAD, and other officials below him would be denoted as STS/STATE.. .. .How does this differ in the UK?. .. .Cheers,

5milesbaby

9th Mar 2002, 00:08

Check 6, STS/STATE FLT. As much as he thinks he's the head, old Queenie still wins, and she has her own callsign as such. However, I had and Italian flight once which read 'STS/HEAD OF STATE', so its probably just what our flight plan inputters decide to put in!!

Captain Spunkfarter

10th Mar 2002, 00:31

Bright-Ling and Whipping Boys SATCO. .. .Read your MATS. It actually says that the flight priorities are:. .. . "for use with tactical handling by ATC, and not as flow control priorites" . .. .Therefore, if an ATCO makes a tactical decision which results in a delay to the Cat D flight, there is not a problem.

Thats ma Baby

14th Mar 2002, 16:31

What happened to the aircraft carrying Blair was as follows:. .Arrangements were being made for Blair's aircraft to be descended below the Lambourne stack for no delay when the controller checked with the pilot if he was required to comply with the night noise restrictions. Unfortunately this meant that he couldn't land before 0602. As is the norm at this time of day about 20 aircraft were also waiting to land after 0602 so Blair joined the Lambourne hold at the top and waited his turn. This resulted in him landing at about 0630. This was not therefore a Nats protest as has been suggested but purely ATC complying with Government night noise restrictions.