View Full Version : Was this legal??
scraglad
21st Nov 2004, 19:17
I was working in Dub today when I heared an Aer Arann ATR42 had a problem with the rear pax door.
The A/C was ready for push and start but indications in the cockpit read the door was open when it was actually closed.
Engineers were called and the A/C was allowed to go with the warning light on!!
Obviously the captain was o.k with it,is this allowed by law??
spannersatcx
21st Nov 2004, 19:22
As long as the MEL says it can then perfectly legal.
You have to check visually either from inside or from outside a green flag on a hole inside the door that confirms that the door is physically closed and secured .
The red alarm on a panel then is considered as a contact or switch U/S .
The Greaser
21st Nov 2004, 20:17
Anything electrical can and will malfunction. On the 737 in this particular case as long as the door is verified closed then dispatch will be allowed, the offending indication will, however, have to be placarded inop.
Pack2
22nd Nov 2004, 08:34
Scraglad
What was the point of your post. Did you feel it was your duty to run home to your computer and tell the world that Aer Arann may have broken the law today and that the captain may have departed illeagally...Are we going to see you withdraw the post with an admission that you now know what an MEL is and that the captain was doing his job. I hope so
FLEXPWR
22nd Nov 2004, 09:36
Well said Pack2, There are hundreds of items in an MEL, and some of them let you go without a landing gear door, or a generator, think about a light that stays on!
And I do believe more than one captain is flying the same airplane in the company. The defect must have been addressed to MX, and taken care of according to proper documentation and procedures, then released to be flown on other routes and by other pilots. Big deal.
Scraglad, I did not see the point of your post either, and would welcome further details about your comments.
speedbird_heavy
22nd Nov 2004, 10:03
Pack2 and Flexpwr.
What was the point of your posts? Did you feel that you had to run to your computer and put someone down for asking a question???? All except two (three with this one) posts have provided an answer to the original question.
skydiverppl
22nd Nov 2004, 10:47
speedbird_heavy ,
well said!
I dont know whats wrong with some of you guys but you seem to have a problem with people asking serious questions.
maybe scraglad was jst curious or simply interested in civil aviation procedures.
eal401
22nd Nov 2004, 11:03
Pack2 and FLEXPWR. Do you two get off on being abusive to people? Do your egos need such massaging that you have to kick someone asking, what was to them, a genuine question?
It is people like you that continue to damage the reputation of PPRuNe
WindSheer
22nd Nov 2004, 11:16
Pack2 and FLEXPWR, I am affraid I will have to agree with the others.
A genuine query was asked, why did you have to try and bring him down (or her)!
Clowns!:mad:
PPRuNe Pop
22nd Nov 2004, 12:39
This a Spotters forum and as such we are bound to get such questions. Take it in the spirit it was asked. No need for more than that guys. You were young once!
PPP
yyzdub
22nd Nov 2004, 13:52
Wow! The poor guy was just asking a question... why don't you guys relax a bit. Obviously touched a nerve with that one.
Engine overtemp
22nd Nov 2004, 15:08
PPRuNe Pop This a Spotters forum and as such we are bound to get such questions.
It wasn't when it was posted!:E
41plus
22nd Nov 2004, 23:07
Fair question was asked, so what if to some other folks it sounds simplistic or suspicious? Never asked a question that you didn't know the answer too?
FLEXPWR
22nd Nov 2004, 23:44
Ok, guys, got your point.
But it comes so often nowadays that people start with small questions to instigate big rumours that it is not as easy to identify.
The thing is, the way it was asked made it as if the pilots were dummies or outlaws, and questioning right away wether it was lawful or not does not sound too innocent.
Of course we all have questions, but quote:
"Engineers were called and the A/C was allowed to go with the warning light on!!
Obviously the captain was o.k with it,is this allowed by law??"
Sorry, the question, if you do not see it, is wether the "captain" was actually going with breaking the law or not, and I do not think this is a very nice way of presenting the matter.
Now, if the first post had been
"I was working in Dub today when I heared an Aer Arann ATR42 had a problem with the rear pax door.
The A/C was ready for push and start but indications in the cockpit read the door was open when it was actually closed.
Engineers were called and the A/C was allowed to go with the warning light on........................
I do not know much about aircraft operations and would appreciate someone telling me how you get around this problem."
- would everyone have been happier? Hopefully ´'scraglad' has learnt something about asking questions and Hopefully we can now leave this thread to anyone else who wishes further to explain MEL philosophy to him/her? BTW, I don't think anyone has actually said that 'MEL' means 'Minimum Equipment List' which allows dispatch with certain inoperative items.
It is always difficult to ´divine´the intentions of posters but rest assured your moderators are watching and as PPP says we try to welcome ALL enquiries here! The fact it went to the wrong forum initially and was moved to the correct one (hopefully!) shows that those mods were on watch too.
Happier now, scraglad?
eal401
23rd Nov 2004, 11:25
Happier now, scraglad?
Probably wishes he'd never bothered.
Maybe there should be a new sticky. "How to word questions so as not to upset the sensibilities of highly strung little darlings."
:)
Pack2
23rd Nov 2004, 11:41
I stand firmly by my post. I do not beleive this was just a simple question. Scaglad deliberately named the company, cast doubt on the engineers decision to release the aircraft by his exclamation at the end of the sentance and implied that the captain commited some offence by asking if his decission was lawfull.
An innocent question would go something like this.
An incident happened today at Dublin where an aircraft was dispatched with a cockpit warning indicating an unsafe door. How is this possible?
Many of you would then explained the existance of the MEL and how it works.
Aer Arann is a very good airline and its pilots and engineers are as good as any i have seen. Scraglands post brings them into question and that is unfair.
davethelimey
23rd Nov 2004, 12:01
Heavens, our panties are in a bunch today.
The question, as you could probably tell by reading the post, was whether it was legal to leave with a warning light on. The answer is yes, it is legal. No, naming the airline wasn't enourmously discrete, but, as most of the answers here have shown, no laws, rules, or procedures were broken and the aircraft was safe. These are, unfortunately, facts that will be overlooked by most who visit this thread and only read the breathless kneejerk responses left by a few over-sensitive individuals who are incapable of critical thought.
Patience beginning to run out!
Can we talk about MEL etc here - or the thread will be locked? I think the 'points' have been made and hopefully absorbed.
scraglad
23rd Nov 2004, 13:22
Pack 2 and Flexpower,
I only asked a question. Have you ever been unsure or curious before?? I guess not!
Pack 2, Do YOU feel its YOUR duty to try and make me look like a fool?? The second paragraph of your reply is all I wanted to know.
Flexpower, The in-bound pilots on that aircraft had NOT got the warning light on because I ASKED the engineer.
The rest of the guys who replied to this post thank you for your support,and I will continue to ask questions because I dont know everything unlike Bill and Ben,(AKA Pack2 and Flexpower!!).
Mr Chips
23rd Nov 2004, 14:41
Sorry BOAC if I am furthering the problems.. but...
Flexpower, The in-bound pilots on that aircraft had NOT got the warning light on because I ASKED the engineer.
Perhaps if you had asked the engineer in the first place....
Innocent questions don't look so innocent when naming an airline
scraglad
23rd Nov 2004, 15:01
I asked him had they this problem on the i/b and he said no. I had no time to ask him anything else as the a/c was delayed and we had to get it out.
Can we leave this matter to rest??
I now know that an aircraft can be dispatched with this problem.
s8grn
23rd Nov 2004, 15:16
Scraglad,
Well Done for sticking to your guns. :ok:
I've been reading these forums for a while now and not wanted to contribute however the barrage of patronising comments hurled at you today have driven me to post for the first time.
I was absolutely stunned at the responses you received!
Tolerance is obviously not something certain posters have in abundance on this thread.
Keep on asking the questions and keep on enriching your knowledge. As for the small minded folk ... well they can stay small minded.
eal401
23rd Nov 2004, 15:18
I was absolutely stunned at the responses you received!
Not been here long then?
:p
PPRuNe Pop
23rd Nov 2004, 20:44
Thats enough. If you cannot contain yourselves...........BOAC warned of it............and now the thread is closed.
And scraglad learn to accept that not all the answers you get will be to your liking - some CAN make you look a fool. Now you have learned a lesson.