FAA flight training in G-Reg aircraft questions…

[Blue Bug]

G’day all!

Just a query…I can’t seem to find clear answers to my questions…

1. Is it legal to give flight training in the UK on a G-registered aircraft if the instructor holds ONLY FAA licences – no JAA nor CAA?

2. Is it legal for a JAA FI (with the ability to teach the UK IMC but no FAA instructor ratings) to teach the FAA IR in a G-registered aircraft in the UK?
(My understanding of the FAA FARs is that this is not legal without authorisation from the CAA – that being a JAA IRI I assume…?)

If anyone can clear this up for me or at least point me in the right direction, that’d be most appreciated!

Cheers!
BB :ok:

[Keygrip]

Short answers - references may follow later.....

Q1: The answer is another question - "For what rating?"

Q2: Yes. It is legal under FAR's.

[KitKatPacificuk]

These are all things I've been told. Not seen it in writing.

1,The FAA pulled the authorisation for an FAA Instructor or any Instructor to perform flight training in a G reg aircraft in the UK. They now wont allow people to do FAA checkrides in non N reg aircraft.

2,A JAA IRI can train for the FAA IR. But 15 hours of it must be done with an FAA CFII as the JAA IRI cannot sign the endorement to say the student is ready for test.

One thing I'm trying to find out is if the UK IMC rating counts towards the hours for a FAA IR. I've heard it does, and heard it doesn't. Again not found it in writing.
I was told by an FAA DPE that it does count because it says in the FAR's that you require 40 of instrument flying with 15 hours being with a FAA CFII.
Others say that it only counts if the IMC training was done by a JAA IRI, but not by a JAA FI with the restriction lifted to train for an IMC rating. Hence point 2 above.

Again please correct anything or give you opinons. Interested to hear.

[Whopity]

You cannot conduct PPL training in a G Reg aircraft unless you hold a UK or JAA licence with an instructor rating. A person holding only a FAA CFI rating cannot conduct training in a G Reg aircraft for a pilot licence.

If training were conducted toward an FAA IR the question would now be what is the status of the flight; if it were unremunerated, it would be a private flight, and provided both pilots wre rated on the aircraft, training for a FAA qualification could be conducted. If money changes hands it is now a public transport flight, it cannot be classified as aerial work (instruction) if the instructor is not qualified in accordance with the ANO.

If the Instructor holds both UK/JAA and FAA instructor ratings, training can be conducted in a G Reg aircraft.

Training for FAA ratings in the UK in N reg aircraft requires the written permission of the DTLR to conduct aerial work in a foreign registered aircraft. Such permission is only granted to allow the owner of foreign registered aircraft to receive training. This cannot include PPL training as a foreign student pilot certificate (medical) is not valid in the UK and in order to send a student solo on a UK/JAA medical certificate, the instructor must hold a UK/JAA instructor rating.

[chrisbl]

There is no requirement to hold both JAA and FAA instructor ratings to give instruction towards FAA ratings in a G reg aircraft.
I do not know where you got that idea from.

The relevant section of the FAR is as follows

Sec. 61.41

Flight training received from flight instructors not certificated by the FAA

(a) A person may credit flight training toward the requirements of a pilot certificate or rating issued under this part, if that person received the training from:
(1) A flight instructor of an Armed Force in a program for training military pilots of either--
(i) The United States; or
(ii) A foreign contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation.
(2) A flight instructor who is authorized to give such training by the licensing authority of a foreign contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, and the flight training is given outside the United States.
(b) A flight instructor described in paragraph (a) of this section is only authorized to give endorsements to show training given.


Therefore A JAA FI instruction would could towards the time required for a US rating.

I know that in my case the IMC rating training and subsequent training leading to revalidation counted towards my FAA/IR training hours.

There is nowhere in the FARs that says the 15 hours of training must be with an FAA instructor only that a candidate for a test must have done three hours training in the sixty days preceding the checkflight and be signed off to take the test by an FAA instructor. In practice a FAA CFII is likely to do more than 3 hours with someone to satisfy himself. afterall he has a reputaion to maintain with the examiners and it is not in his/her interest to put up woeful candidates.

If anyone is interested the FAR can be found here. It is better to quote from the actual regulations than guess wrong.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

[Whopity]

chrisbl

If you read the question you will see it relates to FAA instructors so FAR 61.41 has no relevance to the question!

"1. Is it legal to give flight training in the UK on a G-registered aircraft if the instructor holds ONLY FAA licences – no JAA nor CAA?"

The reason a FAA FI would have to be "dual qualified" is to comply with Article 130 and Art 21 of the UK ANO if the flight were remunerated.

G reg aircraft are operated in accordance with the ANO not FARs Who's guessing?

[porridge]

Blue Bug
You may like to consider this extract from the UK ANO's
UK ANO2000 Article 21 (4) (a) which states that the holder of a license issued by any ICAO Contracting State - including a JAA State that has not yet been recommended for mutual recognition - cannot:
1. act as a member of the flight crew of any aircraft flying for the purpose of public transport or aerial work or on any flight in respect of which he receives remuneration for his services as a member of the flight crew; or
2. in the case of a pilots license, to act as a pilot of any aircraft flying in controlled airspace in any circumstances requiring compliance with the instrument flight rules or to give any instruction in flying.
The key reference is the word ANY which as any legal eagle will tell you means exactly as it says - therefore any FAA only qualified instructor may not give instruction of any kind in UK/EU airspace.
As regards the 15 hours towards a FAA IR the FARAIMS state "an authorised instructor". Most Designated Pilot Examiners will interpret that as an FAA Instructor. As someone who has done the FAA DPE course I will tell you that that is exactly what a DPE will want to see before the candidate takes the test.
One can sit and argue to toss with the DPE as much as one likes, but like the football referee, he/she makes the decisions and if they are unsure they must ask their FSDO Manager or supervising Flight Operations Inspector who will always come down on the side of caution.
Bottom line is for a FAA IR:
The hours for an IMC count towards the 40 hours, and a JAA/CAA Instructor can do that training up to 25 hours, but so can your friend who operates as your safety pilot.
15 hours must be done with an "authorised FAA Instructor", so must the last 3 hours and that person must sign the 8710 form before test. All or any of the training may be done on a G-reg aircraft, but the test must be done on N-reg. The IR test must be done in VMC as the candidate is 'pilot in command'.
The test can be done in the UK as there are DPE's who come out here to do it. Arrangements for this are made through the FAA NY Field Office (anyone who needs the contact details please PM and I'll supply you with them).
Hope that clarifies this for everone.
Porridge