New AIP and binders

[PGH]

What do you think - I really like the new AIP and the new binders, quite professional looking. After all these years I'm not sad to see the end of a pink covered, odd shaped ERSA.

[funbags]

What a riveting topic in an airline forum.

[ace4bar's girlfriend]

What..don't Airline pilots use them?

[Cornholio]

The original RAAF ERS was shaped that way to fit into the leg pocket of speed-jeans or a zoom-bag.

You civvy pud-knockers like things to have a bound cover to fit better in your doctors' bags so now you've got it. enjoy........

At least you spelt "professional" correctly. You have risen to the top 2% of civvy pilots, IQ-wise.

[funbags]

Sorry , what a riveting topic. Fullstop.

P.S Haven't picked one up in years !

[Icarus2001]

So, once upon a time we had the VFG for visual pilots and the AIP for IFR & Commercial operations.

The VFG was deleted and was much missed particularly by Private Pilots. Then we had the AIP as two volumes...to make it easier. Then there was a complete re-numbering/chapter naming to ....make things easier.

Then CASA decided to produce a VPG which is great but dates quickly and is not an operational document. The Private Pilots love them.

Now we are going back to a single volume AIP...to make it easier. Looks like they want to be more like Jeppesen!

Then of course there was the old En-route Supplement. Say that phrase to many pilots and they look quizzical and say, do you mean ERSA!

:ok:

[John Eacott]

Cornholio is right: the original ERSA was a UK product, and sized to fit the leg pocket of baggy green skins. Re the size/shape change, since there are a lot of us still wearing flying suits in the civvie world, and an awful lot still in the Mil, it's going to be a PITA stowing the darn thing :rolleyes:

Slightly OT, the aussie map fold was designed around the same criteria, fitting the leg pocket of a flying suit, plus being able to unfold one handed in a busy cockpit. But then you all knew that, didn't you ;)

[Neddy]

Make no mistake this change was about money not "customer satisfaction"!

In about 1998 ASA carried out a survey of users regarding various services. In regards to ERSA the response was almost entirely positive in terms of it's size and ease of use (90%ish I recall). In light of that ASA, despite the extra cost (there is a large waste of paper due to the unusual size), stuck with the "well liked" existing format.

Now with a bean counter installed managing the publications area we see ASA abandoning the old format. Interesting that in doing so they did not take the opportunity to make some of the actual changes requested in the survey including Tabs, an effective index and a more appropriate sectioning of information.

Try asking for a reduction in your subscription now that it is cheaper to produce!!

[Feather #3]

In fairness, I cull half the present AIP into "need to know" and carry DAP/East below 22S. This still gives a heavy flight bag.

As a test, I put the three 'new' books, complete, into the bag and my subjective analysis is that it's lighter. That can't be a bad thing?

However, sifting through the DAP, it seems that the charts are continuous page-by-page. Not so sure that's a good idea, although it will save a lot of paper.

Good luck all!

G'day ;)

[criticalmass]

My biggest concern about the old AIP was the ever-increasing bulk as amendments were added and the superseded pages culled. Mine got to the point where I was seriously considering trying to find a similar binder to split it into two more manageable parts.

Then the new documents arrived. Now I wonder how long it will be before they too begin to exceed the design capability of the binder system?

[Wing Root]

I don't know about everyone else but I DO find that my new DAP East is already too full.
Oh well, I guess it's their way of getting us to shell out extra for the thicker leather binders coming soon. :rolleyes:

[Arm out the window]

I like the way the advertising blurb talks about how the paper was chewed by free range mountain sheep, lovingly washed under a full moon in clear spring water and then pressed between bricks made from the purest organic mud! Something like that anyway...

[CaptCaveman]

Anybody else get a Runway Distance Supplement with the wrong hole punching(5 instead of the 7 and at differnet spacings)? Or is there a reason that it's been made different from everything else?

[captcessna]

fun bags, until i see a decent post by you, how about you lay off everybody esle

[Lynx206]

I received my new AIP Book today. The only comment I have is that I just spent three freaking hours doing my last amendments when the new book turns up...already amended! "Bother", I said. I then noticed the 3 micron rice paper they are printed on.

As for DAP East and West, I wisely kept my plastic curtain rings and covers from the time before DAP binders. So I have five booklets for both coasts but at least they are manageable at the top of the ILS in a small cockpit on a cr@ppy night.

Can't wait to see what has happened to ERSA.

[AV8 consultants]

Have you all heard of Jepps? Took Airservices long enough to realise the format works and fits all docs (AIP ERSA DAPS) into 2 binders!! DERRR

[Lynx206]

Have you all heard of Jepps? Took Airservices long enough to realise the format works and fits all docs (AIP ERSA DAPS) into 2 binders!! DERRR

Yes, but some of us don't have enough space in the cockpit to actually carry an encyclopedia-sized book for reference. (Not that anyone should need to refer to AIP while airborne in any event. If they do, their professional education is sadly lacking.) :=

[Tinstaafl]

...and some of us loathe Jepp's (& Aerad's) binding/packaging format. :yuk:

[NAMPS]

Here we go, the good ol' mine is better than yours argument :yuk:

[Lynx206]

Here we go, the good ol' mine is better than yours argument

For the Jepps users, would that be 'Mine is bigger than yours'?

:D :rolleyes:

[Tinstaafl]

Nothing to do with 'better than yours' argument. My profound preference is for a 'top flip over' binding hence my loathing of *any* brand that uses the Jepp or Aerad binding.

In the US I choose to use the government plates (NACA or whatever they're called now. I think of them as NOS) even though the information presentation is not as good as IAL/DAP, Jepp or Aerad.

[Lynx206]

Egads, I have just received my new DAP(E). I don't care what you fly - these plates are just not user friendly in small cockpits. :yuk:

I suppose, on the bright side, that amendments are now a tad simpler.

Does anyone know why the format changed? Was it a good idea or is there a higher plan (such as Jeppesen takeover of ASA)?

[Transition Layer]

Does anyone know if Jepp users will get the new ERCs in the next amendment due on Nov 19?

Cheers,
TL

[Dj Dave]

my ASA new style ERSA came the other day, veeeery funky . it had a 7 ring binder with 400 pages of 6 hole punched ERSA.

WTF ???

[Lynx206]

It's good to see that the publications are now professionally c@cked up rather than the amateur misalignment of holes as has been the case in the past.

[connection fee]

Air the Aips' 7 holes the same as the Jepps?

Can one use the Oz AIP's folder to pop some jepp plates into? Will the new AIP Plates clear covers work for the Jepps to use instead of ordering more Jogs from the states?

Thanks
CF