Instructor - age limits

[Cron]

I understand - I could be wrong - that instructing up to 65 ok, commercial flying to 60.

Is this situation likely to change in the future? Thanks in advance for any comments, corrections or observations.

[redbar1]

Cron,

As your profile shows your location in the UK, I assume you are referring to JAR-FCL regs?

If so, there are no age limits to instructor ratings. The only age limits in FCL refers to Commercial Air Transport, something instructing is NOT.

There might be additional, national regulations, though. I am no expert on UK national reg's, but I am sure others here can inform you.

Cheers,
Redbar1

[Whirlybird]

redbar,

That's correct; there's no upper age limit for instructors in the UK.

[BigEndBob]

There should be an age limit where flying with pre solo students or trial lessons are concerned.

[BEagle]

Why? I thought that's why all UK FIs have to have JAA Class 1 medicals.....

There should perhaps be a minimum experience level for pre-solo and joy-ride, sorry, 'trial lesson' FIs.

[covec]

...although not commercial air "transport" [redbar1]; instructing is a "form" of commercial" flying in that you recieve remuneration for performing "aerial work": a recognised UK distinction...and it IS a profession...

[redbar1]

Covec,

Instructing surely is a profession! It should be in higher regard (and pay!). :ok: I did it for 4k hours, moved on, do other stuff, but still miss it ! (I must be forgetting the long hours and short pay... :\ )

cheers, and good luck to all active professional instructors out there!
redbar1

[Sleeve Wing]

BigEndBob.
Please don't put an age limit on FIs as well.
I had to leave my last job because someone (probably less fit than I am) decreed I was too old at 60 - I was just getting good at it.

Too old ? Ask my wife ! She wants me to go out more !!

Oh, and yes, BEagle, couldn't agree more - there SHOULD be a minimum experience level for pre-solo and, er, trial lessons - could be another good thread ! ;)

Sleeve. :ok:

[BigEndBob]

60 is probably ok, but would you be happy having a relative fly with instructor approaching 80, no matter how spritely they may be.

I'm not saying stop them from instructor, just the experience level of the person they take flying.

Its a bit like taking a 2400hr Lycoming across the channel, why take the chance?

[fireflybob]

My dad was still a Panel Examiner when he was 81 but that was a little while ago now!

I believe there is an upper age limit for instructor examiners (sorry if that is not the "PC" JAA term) of 70 years.

[Whirlybird]

60 is probably ok, but would you be happy having a relative fly with instructor approaching 80, no matter how spritely they may be.


Presumably you're worried about sudden heart attacks or similar? These can happen at any age. Do you have any evidence that they're more likely in someone of nearly 80 with a good health record, than someone younger? Remember, your 80 year old will have had a Class 1 medical within the last 6 months; your younger instructor won't.

Personally I'd rather send up my relative with the 80 year old with zillions of flying hours who can probably cope with practically any flying emergency, than the 200 hour 20 year old who possibly can't. :eek: And I suspect sudden and unexpected aircraft failures are more common than sudden and unexpected heart failures. Anyone have the figures?

[covec]

redbar1 - I have an eigth of your experience - thanks for your polite reply under the circumstances!

[P.Pilcher]

Firefly bob - if your Dad was who I think it was, then I was one of his many instructor trainees as were zillions of others. Nice to see him mentioned and I am drinking a toast to his memory!

P.P.

[Sleeve Wing]

Me too, PP. Set 'em up again.

I was one of his FI test candidates.......well, a long time ago.
We became good friends and I will be forever grateful for his generous comments when I needed a reference for my first civvy job.

I'll never forget some of the advice he gave which improved my flying out of all recognition ........or the mirror he and Frank Spencer(?) used to do in Chipmunks in their polished display sequence... oh, and they were over 60 then !

Still, I digress.......

Sleeve.

[redbar1]

Interesting - and never ending - discussion, this one. I guess any firm conclusion is way ahead.... :confused:

But still, just some small additional comments to comments:

..upper age limit for instructor examiners.. Not in JAR-FCL. As stated earlier, the only age limit in FCL is for Commercial Air Transport, i.e. the transport of passengers, goods and/or post for renumeration, normally indicating an AOC organisation. (Not counting any evt. national regulations/variants)

..taking a 2400hr Lycoming across.. Weelll.... the only engine hiccups I've encountered in 25 yrs have been in relatively new/reconditioned engines, not properly 'debugged' yet. Every engine straight out of heavy maintenance is a potential for... you know. No disrespect to good friends in maintenance, but I do have a few nice tools in my collection - retrieved from engine bays after maintenance.. :ok: .. and a few hairy stories.. :uhoh:

Engines apart, (pun intended, and to keep this going in a good humor) e.g reversely coupled ailerons wouldn't just 'show up' after several hours flying, would they?:ok:

(Covec: no mention. Just teach them good airmanship)

cheers,
redbar1

[A and C]

It's a long time since I have had the misfortune to read such rubbish on this forum , as long as an instructor passes the check ride and medical why stop them instructing ?.

Some of the best instructors that it had ever been my fortune to meet are over the "normal" retirement age and bring with them a wealth of experience , I once had the pleasure (in the USA) of flying with a 79 year old Flight Engineer as the FAA don't put an age limit on Flight Engineers and one of the training Captain was well over 65 but he could only fly training flights as these are conducted under part 91. Both of these Gents were superb airmen and passed on to me much wisdom.

It was my impression that the first flying job that these guys had involved urban re-development in Japan.

[Johnm]

The guy who did my skills test celebrated his 80th birthday a year later. Last time I looked in at the club he was still going strong now 83. Fantastic pilot and brilliant instructor/examiner with endless knowledge and experience of aviation and an immense number of types flown.

I certainly wouldn't see any reason to stop him as long as he can still pass a medical.

[Whirlybird]

A and C, and Johnm - well said. :ok: