SHORTAGE OF ATSA's AT NERC

[Nogbad the Bad]

Apparently.....although I am absolutely amazed.....this is true.

Have got rid of a whole raft of highly qualified ATSA's 4 with early retirements, NATS are now short of qualified assistants to run the operation at Swanwick !!!!!!!

Just thought this should be posted to show others that NATS Management continues to shine !!

[St.Louis]

Absolutely true!!!!!!!!! Not only did some ATSA 4's get VR, but the management also got rid of contract ATSA 2's and are now asking the ATSA'S to do overtime at a very cheap rate. Why do you think the North Sea sector was closed last night!

[bagpuss lives]

Sign of things to come nationwide I fear <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[eyeinthesky]

I wonder when the upper echelons of NATS management will wake up to what is happening on the shop floor. We are lurching from one firefight to the next, and when each one is just extinguished the ORO and others breathe a sigh of relief before rushing off to tackle the next blaze. I hope that the closure of North Sea sector due to a staff shortage which was due to PLANNED insufficient staff rather than sickness or anything will cause enough consternation amongst our customers (the airlines) for them to start asking some tough questions about what the hell is going on. It is only through this that things will change. Each time they sweep something under the carpet the more they get away with it.

Further details on this particular incident are that the ATSAs on the watch concerned were being offered triple time and a DIL to do it, rising apparently to 'name your price', and no one was buying. Then they asked the afternoon ATSAs whether they would be prepared to stay on until 2359 on double time. Funnily enough the answer was 'No' there as well.

What a way to run a railway...

[Legs11]

I don't even think Serco could have cocked it up as much as this. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

What is it with NATS management, have they learnt nothing. Throwing money at a problem solves diddly squat. In the good old days managers managed, it would appear that at NERC they can't. <img src="redface.gif" border="0">

These sort of stories are bad enough, but what about all the stuff we're not hearing about.

When the lid gets blown off on this one, there's going to be one hell of an explosion.

Planned shortages of staff, what are SRG doing about it?? Makes you wonder about the effectiveness of the Regulator eh? <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Great Unmanaged]

There would be no staff left for Serco to cock up. All the ATSA's and 90% of the engineers would have gone on September 12th.

I do despair at NATS ATC management though. Come on TAG - sackem and appoint capable people.

[St.Louis]

When Swanwick went live, there was no leave given to the operational staff, basically it was embargoed except for certain cases. This week we have the situation where I believe the leave books are opened up. So if we have been short of ATSA staff for the past month since LACC opened what the hell is going to happen this week!. . . .You!! on the back of that bus queue, what are you doing for the next 9 hours???????????????

[Nick Webb]

With reference to the North Sea situation on the nights,I heard that they even tried to get somebody working in the TDU who had very little experience on North Sea to work them nights,thats how desperate they are.We have ex-contract people who were told they were out of a job crying to come back and we have to close down sectors due lack of staff.. . At least it proves that we ATSA's have some say in things and are needed to the degree that if there is a lack of us we can close sectors down.Maybe management will sit up and notice this now before they try to sell us down the road!

[Nogbad the Bad]

Don't sell yourself short, On Course Sam.....the ATSA's are just as vital to this job as are the Engineers and the ATCO's.

Can't say the same for Management though !!

[no sig]

I was going to comment as an airline bod, but frankly I'm lost for words...

[Nick Webb]

That is exactly my point but sadly certain people mostly from higher up seem to think that they could do without us quite easily.I have worked as an ATSA at LACC a few times now when it has,despite the flow rates being down,pretty busy and I would like to see how things would work without us on the end.

[DB32]

I see from the Guardian's front page

<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4362518,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4362518,00.html</a>

that the closure of North Sea was caused by a controller calling in sick. I guess this is the press office being political or was there a shortage of ATCOs as well?

[Asda]

There is a shortage of ATCOs being rostered onto nights.

[eyeinthesky]

Let's be quite clear about this: This was NOT due to Controller sickness. It was due to a rostered shortage of ASSISTANTS which was known at least 24 hours in advance and the measures I outlined above failed to persuade anybody else to take up the offer.

To read a NATS spokesman say it is common is interesting! What IS common is that they consistently roster the bare minimum of staff for night shifts and if anyone goes sick then there is a strong possibility that sectors will have to be closed. It not many other jobs would someone be rostered to work a 9-hour night shift without a rostered break and with food and drink being forbidden in the Ops room on pain of disciplinary action. Yet this is what happens on the North Bank every night: two ATSAs are rostered for two positions.

That the whole system does not fall apart is amazing. You will not believe the running around that goes on every duty shuffling people between sectors every hour or so just to ensure that everybody can have their legal breaks.

The public have no idea how close the whole system is to collapse at times, and inaccurate reporting by the press does not help.

[chiglet]

As an "aside". This AM, I was "relieved" as EGCC TWR asst at time 06.59.59 by an ATCO!. .Granted, the M62 "Thelwell Viaduct" WAS closed, AND the "Security Personell" were 'doing their thing!'. .It WAS just a tiny bit "iffy". .we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy. .so far <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Bob Golding]

The Thelwall Viaduct is on the M6 between Junctions 20 and 21.

[Jay Foe]

Sorry for being a thicky, but what's an ATSA <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

I'm guessing something along the lines of Air Traffic .......... Assistant, but I can't work out what the S stands for.

[BEXIL160]

ATSA: Air Traffic Services Assistant. Used to be ATCAs , Air Traffic Control Assistants.

Why the name change? Well, they're involved in a lot more things than just ATC, e.g. ATM, or flow control if you prefer, being just one.

Oh, and I should also mention that they do a pretty damn good (and essential) job too.

Rgds BEX

[St.Louis]

I think the name change from ATCA to ATSA came about in the mid to late '80's when a management type person ( ex assistant I believe!!) decided that the ATCA's had no Controlling authority so they decided to change it to Service and not Control Assistant.. .It seems at LACC that the assistants have now some controlling authority or why did they shut the North Sea sector?. .As previously said, the North Sea sector was NOT closed due to controller sickness, but due to staff shortages and the wonderful ORO!?!?! putting too many people on day shifts rather than the nights!

[CIDINLINK]

Strange that such a furore can be caused by a place designed to be ATSA free like NERC/LACC..err except it isn't is it? Oh and wasn't the FIR the first place to open..manned by ATSA's?

As for night rostering, my unit had several brushes with nearly no staff but at least Management, when warned of impending problems, announced that 'Management would cover in the case of 100% sickness'.. .Such an event occurred, Management (with some ill grace)had to cover the 'N' and subsequently interviewed the sickees to find out why they had had the temerity to go sick. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Good here isn't it?

[Nick Webb]

What is also very interesting with regards to the ATSA's are that even when we do have enough on nights,there are situations when some are required to work on sectors they are not even valid on.I know this as a fact because I work on two sectors which I am not valid when I am on nights.. . The sectors on nights are bandboxed down and due to the amount of ATSA's on nights,we are required to work some sectors we do not do.

[Bigears]

Suggest you file an MOR then!

[roger]

Now triple time has been offered to work extra duties(north sea night shift), why are some ATSA's still coming in for time and half? Shooting self in foot comes to mind.

[Sobelena]

Eurocontrol is heading roughly in the same direction with their Maastricht UAC. There is already a shortage of Flight Data Specialists (equivalent to UK ATSAs) and it's looking to get worse. The management, however, remains convinced that they can cut the present (already understaffed) FDS staff by roughly a further 40% in the next 2 to 3 years without compromising capacity. Are they right, or are they seriously underestimating the importance of FDS?

[Scott Voigt]

We used to have your equivilent of ATSA's in our Centers here. Instead of keeping them we replaced them with full blown controllers... . .. .regards

[2 six 4]

On course Sam. I can't believe you are working on sectors without a validation. It is only 3 or 4 years since an ATCO was sacked in AC for doing something similar. All the watch managers know about this and they too would be in line for sacking if this was true.