7700

[Oxford1G]

Could some one in ATC help with this one.

1/If I suffer an emergency, would it be more helpful to change my SQK to 7700, or remain with the present one?. .2/If I declare a PAN,what extra priority will ATC afford for my approach, or do i need to declare a MADAY?

[chiglet]

a./ IF you are in such "DS", then the last thing you want to do is frab about with your transponder UNLESS a/ told to do so, or b/ in the FIR and are in [really] desperate need of assistance. . .b./ Same again. Pan alerts ATC, then you inform. Mayday, is [ultra] DS and the fan is about to get covered.. .The "trite" answer is to talk to the ATSU that is [hopefully] providing a service.. .Hope this helps. .we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[Chilli Monster]

Oxford

May I suggest you look up the definitions of PAN and MAYDAY. They don't get afforded different priorities, you will get handled the same. The difference in words is there to let us know how much S**t you are in <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

CM

[eyeinthesky]

Short answer: Keep whatever ATC squawk you have been assigned unless told to change it. Open FIR: Squawk 7700: it makes all the bells ring at D&D and you will have the attention of any radar controller in the area.

Ref MAYDAY and PAN: Put another way, you will ONLY get preferential treatment on the approach if you declare an emergency. PAN or MAYDAY (whichever you think best) is therefore the way to go. For the benefit of some, there is no such thing as a 'Fuel Emergency' in UK airspace!

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Keep the sqk unless told otherwise. However, if you have not alraedy been identified by ATC, 7700 is a good start. 7700 is always the right sqk if you freecall D&D on 121.5

PAN vs MAYDAY. You will probably get the same response from ATC regardless (2 emergencies at the same time may muddy the waters). However, in simplistic terms MAYDAY mean that you honestly think you're about to die; PAN means you think it may take a little longer.

[Oxford1G]

Thanks

[DOC.400]

Question:. .What is the difference between a PAN call and a MAYDAY?

Answer:. .About ten octaves........

DOC

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Last time I made a mayday I was going down into a wooded area. Last time I made a Pan I had an alternator failure.

In the former I was approaching a position whereby I MIGHT explode and die or might perform a textbook rough field landing. In the latter I might lose comms, some instruments and lights but at the end of the day I was going to land on a runway and not be on fire.

Its a mildly fuzzy area. My advice would be, a panicky MAYDAY can easily be downgraded to a PAN. The initial MAYDAY will give you EVERY helping hand available and all those hands will be glad to help. Nobody - and I know from 1st hand experience - will have a go at you for making that M call. The CAA will not give a toss. The local ATC Officer will not be peeved. Every professional and amatuer pilot on freq will be racking their brains for ways to help you. So make it if you're scared. Too many people have died for fear of sounding stupid or scared on the radio. Don't be one of them.

WWW

[Goldfish Watcher]

Good Answer!

[5milesbaby]

WWW - great advice.

The way I know it is that you call a Mayday when the a/c is in danger (be it structural, instrumental, or hijacked etc) and a Pan when its not (sick pax, another a/c spotted going down, and even includes spotting fires etc on the ground or at sea!!!)

Doing this enables the controller to identify an a/c needing IMMEDIATE attention as it could go any minute, or otherwise one that will stay up but needs priority.

[939]

Definition of the pan call relates to the situation being URGENT whereas mayday would relate to distress

i.e panpan panpan panpan my gin & tonic does not have any ice in it-- urgent

mayday mayday mayday there is no gin!-- distress

[swilliam]

All the above make sense - but if you are flying in an area of vertically separated en route sectors, then setting 7700/7600/7500 will break thru' the radar filters so all sectors above and below can see you.

[kishna]

This is quite often something which comes up at recurrent sim checks.

All of the above relates to a general emergency / problem at altitude. But would the same apply to an aircraft depressurisation requiring an emergency descent on a busy en route frequency. Surely the last this you guys want to see is the mode C rapidly reducing from 350 at 5000 fpm in one sweep of the radar head?

[matc2]

I work with 2 or 3 sectors above me.

As soon as I see 7700 nothing more needs to be said. . .I'm ready for anything especially emergency descents.

It is the best possible way to alert all controllers in the minimum time.

[zonoma]

kishna, i would say that anyone who didn't select 7700 for an emergency descent must be the one who fell unconcious. The last thing the pilot wants to do is try to make contact with ATC, especially with dinner flying across the instruments. You're going down regardless to FL100 (or below), just slap on the squalk and at least we have a chance of getting everything else out of the way.

7700 in my mind is made for radar to see 'we're in the ***** and can't do much, get everything the **** out the way'. It highlights the fact something very serious is happenning by showing other areas to keep traffic away, and don't bother me, no phone calls or other things, I just ain't interested.

Other urgent matters which can be discussed on the RTF before anything happens have no priority to get 7700 selected. ATC can use their discretion then, and retain a full set in the data block on radar. The time we put it on is to alert other areas or agencies, for instance Approach, Military control (including danger areas), D+D cell, other FIR's, and even just other sectors which you may be getting close to with a direct routing.

That's what I think, but it is getting late........ <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[APP Radar]

In case of emergency always squawk 7500/7600/7700 according the case. . .Most systems will mantain correlation between the radar position symbol and the aircrafts call-sign even with the change of transponder code.. .Squawking 7500/7600/7700 makes you visible in all sectors independently of your mode C and Sector's altitude selection - it will help/advise lower sector's of a possible emergency descent / reroute / intention to land.

PAN or MAYDAY will get you the some special attention and priority but are different ways to catch the attention not only from the ATC but also from other aircrafts flying in vicinity. MAYDAY means, no doubt about it, an emergency but PAN might only be a request for priority or a statement of urgency.

APP Radar

[Scott Voigt]

One reason to say something if you have a problem is because we are not always looking at our radar. As we automate more and more we are spending more and more of our time banging away on keyboards and going through flight data that takes us away from constantly looking at the radar.

If you know that every one is separated who you are working, you may spend a bit of your time doing other work if you are working on the sector by yourself.

regards

[Blip]

Does anyone know the origins of the words MAYDAY and PAN PAN?

. .Actually I just got off my bum and looked them up in the dictionary. Only mayday is listed and it says:

mayday - international radio distress-signal.[representing pronunciation of French m'aidez which means "help me".

But still I wonder about PAN PAN.

[ 22 February 2002: Message edited by: Blip ]</p>

[Not_Another_Pot]

Blip

May Day is actually French and is m'aidez meaning Help Me.

As for Pan…..

NAP

[Not_Another_Pot]

Blip

After a quick Google I found this!

From the French word 'panne' --which roughly translates to breakdown

NAP

[swilliam]

The origins of MAYDAY have been much debated. However, if you go back to oilcloth bound manuals you will find that MAYDAY was, in fact, just an arbitary phrase that was decided on.

[False Capture]

Changing your transponder code to 7700 in an Emergency Descent is all very well, but the priority with a transponder is to turn it to TRAFFIC ADVISORY(TA) ONLY .

Imagine the excitement generated by descending to FL100 (or the MSA) in IMC with a TCAS "climb,climb"! Do you stop your descent or do you ignore the TCAS? What will the other recipients of the RA do? If you're in a busy environment how many a/c will then be carrying out TCAS manoeuvers? Then at sometime (when you can get a word in!) you declare a MAYDAY to go along with 7700!! If you manage to survive then it's the controler who dies from a heart attack!

As a pilot, if you have the presence of mind to think about the transponder during an Emergency Descent then the priority must be to select TA ONLY. You can then discuss your actions in denser air!!

[NorthernSky]

There's some good stuff here, but we've not mentioned one vital factor, especially with regard to emergency descents.

Most busy radar controllers work with appropriate height filters on their displays. These prevent certain traffic being displayed on the radar. Filtering can be by code or code block, or by Mode C. For example, someone working airspace from FL200 to 300 may filter out all traffic below FL160, and all above 340, say (this is a generalisation, and the specific airspace will determine the filters used).

So, you're at FL400 above said guy's airspace, and you start an emergency descent. Everything will get very busy, both in the flight deck and in the centre - where the controller you are talking to (whose airspace stops at FL300 in this example) will be co-ordinating your descent with his colleagues.

IMHO, you should squawk 7700, because this will ensure your aircraft's position/data block/whatever is 'forced through' on all centre displays in your area. Then you won't come as such a nasty and sudden surprise when you plummet through said controller's airspace, only becoming visible on his display when you have forty seconds or so to his highest level.

If you don't squawk 7700, don't be surprised if ATC instruct you to do so - it'll be with this purpose in mind.

My final 'tip' for emergency descents is to make the initial call along the lines of:

'Pan pan pan, London Control, Birdseed 123, emergency descent, emergency descent, descending NOW FL100 we are able to fly headings'.

This could be an enormous help to the controllers involved.

A final thought - and credit to the BA pilot who I heard do this - if you need to descend but not declare an emergency, then I thought the following phraseology was near-perfect:

'London, Birdseed 123, we have a technical problem, we must have descent to FL100 now'.

[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: NorthernSky ]</p>