speeds for a PA28-140!

[green dinosaur]

What speeds do you teach (in knots) for the base and final approach/ Vat??

Whats the order of events on base do you do? For instance, lower flaps 2 stages then get speed correct??

[BEagle]

PA28-140C POH speeds are quoted in mph, so I'll state these and their KIAS equivalents:

For normal powered approach:

Base, 25 flap......80 mph (70 KIAS)
Final, 40 flap.......70 mph (61 KIAS)

All speeds are for MAUW!

Turn base, with power reduced to 1500-ish rpm (depends on wind). Wings level, 25 flap, adjust to 80mph, trim. Turn final, wings level, 40 flap, adjust to 70mph, trim. No 'Vat' as such - fly at the approach speed all the way to the flare using the 'point and power' technique.

[Angel´s One Fife]

BEagle

Whether you like it or not all aircraft have a Target Threshold speed and the PA 28 140 is no different. Arriving at the flare at such a high speed will only lead to a long hold-off before touchdown. Also turniung base with 1500 rpm set will only lead to a wide base leg leading to a circuit more akin to a cross country. The power setting required should be as required to fly to the correct glidepath and this could be idle for most of base leg in still wind conditions unless you are planing to fly a wide circuit. Sure 1500 is a reasonable amount to aim for once the descent is set as a rough ball park; but judgement should be taught also as conditions allow.


VAT is easily worked out for all from VS0

Green Dino

Follow BEagle's lead ; if you are going to fly the aircraft then take the time to read the POH before you go no matter how simple the aircraft is. If it is simple you'll only have a few minutes a reading to do and you'll always discover some good gems. It may even be something of interest e.g. spin recovery technique that is non standard

[BEagle]

1500 seems a reasonable ball park given the circuit we're stuck with here.

The values we use are from the POH.

Point-and-power using 70 mph does not lead to an extended flare.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Careful now Beagle, Angle's one may decide you should not even fly an airplane never mind instruct on one.

In the discussion about shutting down engines he told me that I probably shouldn't even fly a multi engine airplane let alone instruct on one.

Remember these airplanes like the PA28 are very high tech and very demanding when it comes to handling proceedures. :D :D

And when we get into twins only the very best and most knowledgeable among us should fly them.......right Angle's?

I must really be getting bored. :{

Chuck E.

[Angel´s One Fife]

Must be a big circuit ; especially if you are waiting until after the base turn to reduce power. But it seems the norm in the UK is to fly bomber circuits.

What technique you use on final will not change the approach glidepath for the same aircraft with the same flap, power, controls position and airspeed. So your point of, it must be point and power is irrelevant really.



Charles

Get over it and move on.

Read the post correctly and take the correct meaning from it. Your point was based on the fact that you felt that a multi asymmetric was a major event and that you were lucky to have not "bought the farm" because you could not restartr the engine. If flying a twin is that scary for you from intentional feather then how much overly melodramatic are you when confronted with a real emergency.

And most aeroplanes do glide.

[BEagle]

Chuck - I see what you mean!

;)

[Angel´s One Fife]

BEagle

Yawn

But from what I remember Vso for a PA28-140 is 52 mph therefore VAT should be around 58 mph. If you want to arrive 10 MPH fast then on you go but personally can't see the point of arriving too fast.

[NinjaBill]

Are you suggesting that your experience puts you in a better position then the test pilots employed by piper, to determine the best speed to fly one of their aircraft?

NB

[Holdposition]

Super stuff gents:D long may it continue!!!

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Angel's............

I am totally lost now by your attitude, I have nothing to get over.

Please go back and read my posts again, nowhere did I indicate that I am afraid of flying on one engine.

I do however believe in flying aircraft in a manner that does not unnecessarily increase my exposure to unnecessary risk.

You also should read your statement that you don't think that I should even fly multi engine aircraft.

I have probably flown multi engine aircraft you have never even seen let alone flown. :D :D

One more comment on your posts Angel's f I may, anyone who quotes hard numbers such as 52 mph and 58 mph to be used when flying airplanes is obviously a wannabe trying to sound knowledgeable.

So when you get some real exposure to our industry I will know by how you post things. :ok:

Chuck E

[Angel´s One Fife]

Ah the usual PPRuNe if you don;t have a thousand posts you must be a wannabe line.

A many say "‘No matter how many hours you have in your log book, or your position in the hierarchy of life,
you are only as good as your performance on your last flight’

All speeds can be worked out to the nearest round integer instead of flying to the nearest five or ten. That is why the engineers work out all those lovely graphs and put them in to the POH. So perhaps one day people would actually work out their weight and balance and then calculate the lift off speeds and Vato etc. etc.

If you want to fly to the nearest ten go ahead but me; I will stick to the nearest integer or decimal of mach, knot, km or mph all the same. Personally I don't feel the need to be shoddy. I prefer to arrive at the exact correct speed.


You will no doubt in all your years have realised that in some of Mr Piper's aircraft that if you do not fly to the nearest knot, MPH then you will not even climb at times when you want to. Even a differance of only 5 will make soime fail to climb when otherwise they would have happily done 300fpm. But hey what do I know.

If you don't likie risk then why be a firebomber in aircraft never designed for that purpose in the first place.

Me thinks I take less risks than you.

[BEagle]

In the 4-jet on which I used to instruct, we held an approach speed of Vat+10 to 200 ft, then reduced to achieve Vat at the threshold. It decelerated slowly, but when idle thrust was selected IN the flare, sat down gently on the main landing gear.

In the PA28-140C and -161, we fly the POH approach speed until around 5 ft, then reduce power to idle, finesse the flare and align the a/c with the RW C/L. It decelerates promptly and sits down happily on the mains, with no tendency to float or 'wheelbarrow' which an extra 5-10 mph would certainly bring about.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Well Angel's, I've finally reached the point where I am sure that you and I are talking in different languages.

Maybe someday we will meet and you can demonstrate your superior skills and possibly I will learn something from you.

Until then I will struggle along on my own. :ok:

Chuck