Hour Building (Australia)

[GolfFoxtrot]

Hello ...

Just a quick question for those in the know.
With regard to building twin time in Australia, apparently if I go down there with a JAA PPL they can then issue me with an Australian special licence.

Can I then do an OZ ME rating and build twin hours that will count toward a JAA ATPL(frozen)/IR later on.

I'm thinking of doing a 100hrs with a friend on a trip of a lifetime type thing but still want it to count toward my ATPL, otherwise might have to re-think.

Cheers

[Student-pilot]

Sorry I don't know the answer to your question but you could contact someone at CASA who are the governing body in Australia.
www.casa.gov.au (http://www.casa.gov.au)

Good luck.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

The answer is yes you can, I don't think they are dishing out the Special Pilot Licences so much now, but you can do the same on a Certificate of Validation, which will allow you to fly day VFR private ops on your overseas licence. CASA will issue these when they sight your logbook, licence and medical. They last for three months or when your medical runs out whichever is first, but you can renew them.
Here there is no multi engine rating, instead you train for an initial twin endorsement on one type, which you can have issued here and use with your certificate of validation, and can then add other types of twin endorsements to it.
So come on down and build your hours and have a great trip at the same time!
(BTW moderator, I'm not advertising as I don't have any twins!)

[GolfFoxtrot]

Cheers guys.

[WGW]

CASA office at Bankstown gave me a Special Licence for A$50 within the hour. And I think that was only cos the guy who signs them was out for lunch. Valid indefinitely as long as your UK PPL stays current. Similar offices at Moorabin etc too - check their web site.

[GonvilleBromhead]

Hi all,

I will shortly be embarking on the hour building road (exam results pending) and currently looking at Florida, but also Oz, preferably Sydney (looking at Bankstown).

I've done a search and checked out the info on here so far, has anyone got any recent experience of Bankstown or hour building in Sydney generally ?

I see Aerospace Aviation gets a few good recommendations, any thoughts ?

cheers.

[no sponsor]

I went to Sydney in December last year for about 2 weeks and the weather was total pants - strong winds and heavy rain. Although there were some good days thrown in. I looked at Bankstown, and was planning to fly from there, although it is a suburb of Sydney, and a bit out of the city centre, so you would need some form of transport to get you there if staying in Sydney.

I think you should look to Western Oz if you want to be guaranteed good flyable weather - unless if you are IR rated.

You will need to convert your licence to a Oz one, but it seemed straight forward enough, with none of the current FAA nonsense.

[A and C]

I rented a TB20 from Basair at bankstown a few years back and they were good people to deal with and I would have no hesitation in recomending them.

www.basair.com.au

Check out the website and if you have any more questions about hourbuilding in aus or the UK email me.

[email protected]

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Hi Gonv,

You don't need to convert yur licence, but can apply for a Certificate of Validation which allows you to fly private Day VFR ops on your overseas licences subject to completing a flight review. Ideal for hour builders, and although I'm biased, WA has more reliable weather than some other parts of Aus, and is cheaper. Best time is October to June.

[GonvilleBromhead]

Thanks folks for the replies.

Cheers CFI, I spoke to you quite a while ago via non-pprune e-mail about looking at the possibilities of Oz, I was just starting my ATPL theory back then I think.

As you can see, still looking at it as an option, and quite tempting. Thanks for the advice, I may drop you an e-mail to look at it further in the near future, still trying to decide between USA and Oz at the mo.

all the best,

Gb.

[ayre]

Hi,

If your still looking into flying in Aus then you might consider Newcastle instead of Sydney. I instruct at the Royal Newcastle Aero Club and its much cheaper than Sydney. We own the airfield so theres alot less time and money spent taxing/payinf for airport usage and more time flying. The weathers just getting nice up this way, cool and clear but quickly warming up for summer. Check us out at www.rnac.com.au. If your after anymore specific details email at [email protected].
Anyways, good luck ith your research,
Cheers.

[HN1708]

Any one know of any decent places near Sydney for hour building?
Tried a search and gave up after the first 30 pages of results.

Ta

[disco_air]

If you're a low-hour pilot & looking to build them, you're almost completely wasting your time in Sydney!

[no sponsor]

Strange response.

I went to Sydney earlier this year for some hour building. I used Schofields flying club, based at Bankstown. I found the club very helpful and welcoming. They had a selection of Arrows, Warriors and some twins. I mostly used the Arrows. Its advisable to speak to the club - on the phone - and book well in advance to get the plane you need. I did have a couple of occassions where my intended aircraft had gone u/s, on one instance there was not a spare, another time the club x-hired an aircraft from another club so I didn't go without.

The distances in Oz are huge, and there's not alot going on when you get outside of Sydney, so you'll end up flying some huge distances to those compared in the UK or Europe.

The check out for clubs is significant too. I ended up doing about 5 hrs flying, having a x-country test with the CFI and a general skills handling session. I also had to have practice with other instructors to learn the approach routes into Bankstown, and the Oz air rules in the surrounding areas. At first this seems like overkill, but I found it all useful.

Get used to using a ADF, and gen up on using a Garmin 430.

It takes 24hrs to get a certificate based on you JAA licence. This will only allow day VFR, irrespective of any IFR qualifications you might have.

I'm going back early next year, and plan on doing some significant trips. I think its a splendid country for flying. Enjoy it - it sounds daunting, but it isn't.

[NACGS]

Hn more than likely is talking about hour building to get experience towards his 200hrs for CPL issue here, hence the confusion to our Ozmates replying to this post. Try Basair.com.au Darren the owner is a nice guy who has been in business at Bankstown Sydney now for a long time, plus he survived teaching me my instructor rating in the 80's and is still alive..

[J-Heller]

Don't forget about Camden. 62km SW of Sydney. Very nice airfield, and located within pleasant surroundings.

There are operators there who will see you right - if you are in the area and have visited Bankstown, you will see what the difference is!

Good luck

[StraightnLevel]

Try Warnavale Air ,

an hour's drive north of Sydney. No landing fees and airspace charges plus you get to fly of the beutiful central coast. I did about 10 hours of flying with them and their quite prices competitive compared to the hexy bankstown.

If i remember rightly its about the same time to the habour bridge as it would be from bankstown.

Cheers

SnL :D

[headwind]

No sponsor/anyone

I have an JAA licence and night flight (NF) qualification. You say the aussie licence is given for day VFR only irrespective of e.g. IFR qualifications. What does it take for me to get an aussie NF qualification with my JAA NF qualification? Planning on moving to Sydney in Dec.

cheers
headwind

[no sponsor]

You will have to complete the Aussie licence, and obtain the night qualification through their requirements. You get a dispensation for the flying, but I believe you must sit the ground examinations, and do a flight test with a CFI to get the licence.

[headwind]

Thanks no sponsor

I digged more data and came to the same conlcusion. I have furiously tried a search on landing fees at YSBK and other GA airports near Sydney, but to no avail. I suppose AirServices Australia collects these fees but no price list exists...

cheers
HW

[troposurfer]

hi headwind,


you don't say where in sydney you will be staying. It's a big place and travelling to the various airfields can take a lot of time out of your day, especially if you don't have a car. There are GA fields out at Bankstown, Hoxton Park and Camden you will really need a car to get to and from these places from central Sydney as all will require a train journey of at least 1 hr plus a further bus ride. You will have to take this into consideration in your flying costs.

I have got an itemised bill from Basair at YBSK somewhere listing the landing charges for Ybsk if I can find it I will let you knoiw the cost.

Hoxton is not too far from Bankstown and is adjacent to the training area if you have to do GFT etc and is much quieter and there are very few delays holding you on the ground/air. No tower though and no cross strip (N-S rwy with usual hoxton x-wind) but less traffic and minimal landing charges, may be a better bet.

YBSK sees at lot more traffic including bizjets and when the guys in the tower have a lot of traffic in their area they will suspend circuits/training until it gets quiet. Bankstown has 3 parallel strips all tarmac though and you get the feel of being a bit more 'commercial'.

Takes about 30/40 mins by car from Balmain/Central to YBSK and another 15-20 to Hoxton ,you pass B'town on the way to Hoxton anyway depending which highway you take.


Bare in mind it costs more to live in Sydney than elsewhere in Oz and that it is the busiest time of the year Nov-Mar for tourism too so accomodation might be scarce.


Have a excellent time mate you'll love it!

[headwind]

Thanks troposurfer,

I am initially staying at Mosman, looking into the area between North Ryde-Northern Beaches to settle. A car will be one of the first purchases as I am arriving with my family and intending to stay longer than just a holiday (hopefully, looking for jobs at the mo', got PR visa in June).

Camden, Hoxton and Bankstown will be the first places to visit of course, in which order it remains to be seen. I suppose landing fees for private planes are imposed on each of these airfields? I am just thinking is it like AUD 1 or AUD 10 to land (and to touch-and-go?)

I have an automatic mailer set up from the YSBK wx station. I'm dying to feel the wx out there, here in Sth Finland the first snow fell today and it's been sub zero for weeks!! Brrr....

Thanks for all the advice

cheers
Headwind

[HN1708]

Any of you guys heard of Chieftain Aviation or Aerospace Aviation?
They seem to have the cheapest rates at Bankstown, though I’ve only had Basair or Schofields recommended.

[redsnail]

Yep, heard of them both. I flew with Aerospace Aviation a couple of years ago. Sue Davis is a mate, she's the boss, give her a call or send her an email with details of what you want to do.
Aerospace Aviation (http://www.aerospaceaviation.com/)

No, not on any commission either :D

[StraightnLevel]

Redsnail,

What year did you leave space??? maybe we left in the same year. I see your in the U.K. are you flying? I'm interested to find out how you got there and the job situation?

Cheers SnL:D

[redsnail]

I never worked there, last time I was there I was renewing my IR. I did an instructor rating with them yonks ago. (and I mean YONKS ago)

I got here via BA 744 into LHR. Job market is entertaining, getting better, should be pretty reasonable for folk with turbine time next year. Low houred guys as usual are still finding it tough. Yep, flying the mighty Shed doing night freight and it's fecking cc-c-c-c-c--cold now. :D

[Tinstaafl]

If you're staying in N.Ryde/Northern beaches maybe you should consider Warnervale. It's up the motorway to the north of Sydney. Another option is the 7th Day Adventist flying school also to the north of Sydney.

[HN1708]

Hi Tinstaafl,

I'll be staying in Manly initially and relying on good ol public transport to get to a field. Is Warnervale closer than Bankstown?

Cheers

HN1708:ok:

[Tinstaafl]

If you're relying on public transport then I think YSBK is the best option. Not sure of the train connections from Manly to Bankstown but you could catch the Manly ferry, hop on the city circle train line to Central Station then a train to Bankstown & finally a bus to YSBK. The bus stop is next to the train station. The bus you need is the one that goes along Marion St. Don't know the route number. It will go right past YSBK's main entrance on Marion St.

[troposurfer]

yo headwind/HN1708,


for all things travel in sydney check out .......

www.sydneytransport.net.au or www.131500.info


these are the transport authorities/information websites for Sydney and environs. If you are coming from Manly to YBSK then you will........

Catch Manly ferry to Circular Quay then take train on Bankstown line to Bankstown then just near station get 935/6/7 to Marion St. Bus drops you 50 yds from airport.

To Hoxton(YHOX) take manly ferry to Circular again then catch Liverpool train to Liverpool then 854 bus drops you near to the airport.


Someone suggested Warnervale, I never used it(overflown on a Nav), but it has Williamtown MIL CTR to north and Richmond to the West as well as being well North of the Sydney burbs.

If you get the chance do a Nav on the Victor 1 route along the coast. Absolutely amazing! 500ft along the cliffs and across the mouth of the harbour. If you can get a plane with a working transponder you can do the harbour and over the bridge if the E-W runway is being used at Kingsford Smith and not much traffic. Awesome.


Ps on the Medical. Get it done at the medical centre at Kingsford Smith if you can. It has public transport to it and it was the cheapest quote I got from all the Docs + easy to get quick appointment. In and out in an hour too.

There is a pilot shop at Bankstown which has all the charts and stuff you will need. Sydney WAC #3456/ VNCs 2 and 3 and a Sydney VTC and a PCA AUS planning chart. The CASA office is just round the corner for any licence probs and paperwork. One word DO GET A SEP sticker in your logbook. I should have had this put in my logbook after my PPL test but the idiots at the school near Melbourne never bothered. Now I get emails from CASA asking me to bring my book to them and I'm back in the UK. Good one mate!


Cheers and much Jealousy



Tropo.

[Tinstaafl]

Medicals can be done at YSBK. The doc. is above the pilot shop.

[cap71n]

Hi all!
I have heard lots of talk about wannabe pilots and the airlines on this forum, but nothing about those wishing to make a career in general aviation. Am I the only idiot who doesnt want to join the airlines, or are there more of us?
My long term goal is to join the RFDS (have you read their entry requirements - it'll be a while before I get to that standard!!) I am most of the way to a CPL, command multi-engine instrument rating, night VFR rating and will be working on an instructor rating toward the end of the year. I also have passes in all my ATPL subjects.
Early next year I plan on heading to Broome to try my luck - does anyone have any suggestions re getting a job up north? I should have ~ 230 hours by that time.
Maybe I should add - I am female and will be 19 by the time I get there. Will this be a disadvantage?
Or should I try my luck getting an instructing job in the Sydney/Newcastle (hometown) area?
Replies will be appreciated! :ok:

[redsnail]

G'day
If you want to work for the RFDS you are better off getting some remote area time. Instructing is good to get the initial build up of hours but I know the RFDS do look for remote time as well. It shows them a couple of things. 1. You are familiar with what the remote stuff entails and 2. you won't be so shocked when based in Derby, Mt Isa etc (when you get there you'll know what I mean).

Your age won't be an issue if you have a mature head on your shoulders. Broome is a good spot but usually the "nicer" the area the greater number of UGALs hanging around. I lived in Broome for over 2 years. Your gender won't be an issue unless your precious about it. You'll be expected to get your hands dirty and so on. Broome Aviation has employed female pilots in the past.

230 hours is low but that's what it's all about. If you get there early in the season, (like around Feb) and get yourself established then it should work for you. Note, no guarantees.
If you have other skills like computing, languages, engineering highlight them. If you can score about 10 or so hours in a C210 or similar before heading out then it will be useful.

Good luck and take a camera with you. Broome's wet season thunderies are something to see.

[FlyingForFun]

71n,

I also don't fancy a career in airlines. It seems to me that the industry is a compromise between fun flying, and earning money. The more fun a job is, the less it pays.

The trick has to be to find a balance where you are earning enough to live on without too much financial stress, but still enjoying your flying as much as possible. (I'm sure I'd enjoy flying airliners, but not as much as flying GA aircraft - the smaller the better, as far as I'm concerned.) I imagine myself instructing for a while until I really can't afford to do it any more, then moving on to turbo-props or business jets which generally pay a salary that you can live on, but not get rich on.

I get the feeling you and I are in a minority. But from the few bits I've seen on these forums, I get the impression that being a little older when applying to turbo-prop operators might be a help - they tend to assume that the average 25-or-under applicant is just looking to build time for airlines, whereas the average 40-or-over applicatant is too old for airlines so may stick around for a while. Don't know if anyone else has a view on that? Problem is because there are so few of us there isn't much information out there.

Have to admit I've never heard of RFDS - probably because I've only really looked into the UK industry in any detail - so my post proably doesn't help much except to let you know you're not the only one. As for me, I'm going to go and do some research on RFDS when I get a chance - just for general interest, if nothing else!

Good luck!

FFF
---------------

[redsnail]

FFF,
RFDS is an Australian outfit known as the Royal Flying Doctor Service. They have bases all over the country and they fly Kingairs, PC12's and I believe there are some Conquests around too. They are very well paid and the overall package isn't bad, esp when you consider it's a GA job. It isn't as well paid as the jet jobs but compares favourably with the turboprop jobs.
From memory, a mate in Mt Isa was earning +$A55,000 plus car and rental assistance (and superannuation, discounted airline tickets etc)(Checkboard's sister is a Doctor with RFDS, she earns +$A100,000, free car, free house and bills paid for)

To get a look in you need several IR renewals, 3000 hours TT, a min of 500 hours in command of multiengine aircraft and from 200 to 500 hours of night flying. (Depends on the region). Turbine time, esp on kingairs is desirable as well as remote area experience. A season or two in the Kimberley or the Territory is ideal.
It tends to be a dead man's shoes sort of job because not many people leave the RFDS to go to airlines. They do prefer to hire older folks though. (Although the Derby base seems to have a high turnover)

[corrimal]

I can't convince myself that I fully understand the CAA documents regarding training abroad....

I'm a Brit currently in Auz training for a PPL. I then want to move on towards ATPL status in the UK next year after taking a C1 medical. I know I have to pass the JAR PPL exams & do a skill test to convert but.....

will any additional hours in Auz, after I gain my PPL, be valid in my UK CPL training if they are done before I convert my PPL licence in the UK???? Or is this just standard hour building?

Hope someone can shed some light on the situation....

Cheers

[Irishwingz]

I'm in a similar quandary.

I'm in NZ with an NZ PPL and want to go home to do the ATPL next year. From what i understand all the hours count. I'm going to try and fit in all the cross country hours i can and the night rating.

I dont think the Multi IR counts at home so I'll leave that and all the theory till next year.

Can anyone else offer some advice? What should we be doing down here before we get home - to save money on expensive flying at home.

Cheers

[dgpeers]

Well heres the thing ive found out....hope it helps a little and i sure do hope its right!!!!!

Basically im doing exactly the same, I have a Canadian ICAO PPL, ICAO night rating and my 300 NM cross country, I have been advised by a couple of traing places in the UK, that I should have completed before starting training for my UK ATPL the following.

ICAO PPL
ICAO Night Rating
ICAO 300 NM cross country
ICAO Multi Engine (ONLY, not MULTI IR)

Total of at least 150 hrs (All ICAO is fine)
of the 150 hrs, At least 100 hrs PIC (P1)

So Thats basically what im working towards and ive been assured thats all good, both you guys are also ICAO in Oz and New zealand i guess too.

Hope this helps a bit as ive been really confused too, sooo many long distance calls to the UK! Once the above is completed, you can get on the ATPL modular route for the frozen ATPL!

If anyone has any other better ideas or opinions....please let me know!!! and if either of you find out anything different please tell me before i hand over multiple wedges of cash ..../ credit cards!!!

After re-reading just wanted to make sure something makes sense,

Yeah so all the hrs count towards the UK CPL/ATPL as far as i know,

If you are going back to the uk to do the CPL/ATPL you dont need to convert an ICAO PPL to a JAA PPL, thats really good news, you just skip the JAA PPL in fact then end up with the JAA CPL which of course takes its place anyway, so im sure in saying you dont need to retake the skill test....

I guess the best thing tough is to check this with CCAT or something to confirm it...

hope that makes sense a bit....i think working this out is harder than the flying!!!

[corrimal]

I agree, trying to work out what to do is way harder than flying!

I back in the UK in 2 weeks so will ask around, I've made appoints some flight schools so will discuss the options. I'll get back to you.

One other thing, re-reading the CAA info it reads as if you are only credited with 50% of your post-ICAO PPL hours.........

:confused:

[TubularBells]

Hi corrimal,

I completed my PPL in Oz some time ago and I'm about to embark on an ATPL course next week (gulp!:ooh:)). The time that you do in Oz is valid, hours is hours sir.

As far as conversion goes, if you do decide to convert your license to a JAA PPL in the UK, you will need to complete either:

Under 100 Hours TT - All exams, flight test and Class 2 medical.
Over 100 Hours TT - Air Law, Human Perfomance, flight test, Class 2 medical.

Please be aware, that no endorsements that you get under CASA will be valid over here (i.e. retractable, Vari Prop).

As for if you actually have to do the conversion or not is another matter. Dgoeers seems to have the info there. I would say though to watch your time. If you need to revailidate your PPL license at any time it get's a little complicated. I think you either have to have an Australian licensed instructor or an Australian licensed aircraft or both. Not sure which, having converted to a JAA PPL before requiring it!! Oh, and another thing. If you've got a CASA PPL, you won't be able to fly abroad from the UK. Not serious, but worth considering.

Anyway, all the best with the hours building and PPL over there, hope the weather's good. Man-o-man, wouldn't mind being over there again, flying up the beautiful sunshine coast. Mmm..

Regards,

TB.:ok:

Actually,

in my hastiness, I overlooked the possibility of hours not counting if you still have the ICAO licence. I\'m not sure what the deal is with this one. I\'ll see if I can find out and then get back to you.

TB.

[TubularBells]

Yep, you're right on that one. CAA Lasors states that if you are the holder of an ICAO PPL(A) then only 50% of your time may be used towards the CPL and in addition to this it is at the descretion of the FTO. Might be worth doing that conversion after all eh? I would definitely seek some advice whilst your over there to figure out your best option. Try emailing some of the flight schools in the UK that you intend to do the training with, they'll be able to guide you to the right decision.

All the best,

TB.:D

[esvdx]

Am in same position, with Oz PPL and am about to study for ATPL while hours building for post 100 hrs JAA PPL / CPL / IR etc...

Can you point me in the right direction in the CAA Lasors where it talks about the 50% credit for ICAO hours.... I've had a look and can't find it.

Certainly the flight schools I've approached in the UK haven't been aware of this quirk.

Regards,

esvdx

[Irishwingz]

PLEASE post what you guys find out about this scary 50% thing!! If its up to the discretion of the FTO thats seems silly - they would naturally want you to have to do as many hours with them as possible.

There's a few of us it seems who are in the same boat.

Thanks very much :ok: :ok:

[NACGS]

The 50% mentioned is for people doing an INTEGRATED course. For a modular course its a full credit given for the hours in your logbook.

Here is the Lasors online:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS.PDF

When it loads, go to page 144, or page 4 of section D. You can read it for yourself.

[TubularBells]

Glad someone is awake! I think I must have missed that one! Sorry if I scared anyone, not my intention!:}

TB.:zzz:

[Irishwingz]

Sorry but I've heard integrated and modular terms before but am not sure what they mean.

My intentions are hopefully to go back to Ireland or UK with 200 hrs, ICAO PPL, night and cross country stuff done. Then do JAR CPL exams and skills test, ME/IR and ATPL ground school etc hopefully pretty quickly.

So is this modular or integrated? Sounds silly but just need to know.

;)

[birdlady]

Hi Guys

Bloody hell youve just scared the hell out of me with this 50% of hours counting. Im a little bit confused here so if someone could clear this up for me it would be very much appreciated.

Ive just finished my JAA PPL here in Johannesburg and have nearly 50 hrs P1. I will be returning to Ireland in the near future to start my ATP's and my CPL. I would like to come back here when Ive got the exams out of the way to fininsh my hour building. If I do this does this mean that only 50% of my hours will count. That doesnt make any sense........

Thanks BL.

[TubularBells]

Don't worry, it's not a problem. As NACGS has said, it's only if you are doing a Integrated course that this would become a problem and even then, it wouldn't matter if you had a JAA PPL, hours allowed to count towards your integrated course would be at the disgression of the school.

Just to clarify - Integrated course is zero (i.e. no PPL) to IR with one provider only. I.e I go to a school knowing nothing about flying, pay them £80,000 (this is only an approximation!) and then get regurgitated out the other side as a qualified pilot. Therefore, if you completed a PPL before completing an integrated course, the school would need to evaluate your training and assess what part of the PPL you had already completed could count towards your training.

Modular Course - I do the training in 'modules' with either the same shool if I so choose, or completing different modules with different schools. This is the route you have chosen by completing your PPL on your own. This way all hours count regardless.

Cheers,

TB.:ok:

[esvdx]

Thanks to NAGCS for clearing this up. Apologies for being too lazy to load the PDF and do a search myself.

Fhew.....

esvdx

[Irishwingz]

Tubular ....Thanks for clarifying the integrated vs modular thing.

Still, why would they only count 50% of your hours on an ICAO PPL when you do an integrated course. Surely you would not go for an integrated (zero to ATPL) if you had an ICAO PPL in the first place?? Surely you would go for the modular? Like myself.

Chr1st this flying thing is complicated!! I'm writing this very pis$$ed and can baelkry speklk correctly. Hope I make some sense.

I'll go the modular and hope all my hours will count.

I love you all. Keep flying, its the most amazing experience in the world isnt it?

:yuk: :{ :}

[birdlady]

Hi

They only count 50% of the hours because they want to get all the money they can off you. Im sure there is a more reasonable explaination but Im sure its part of the reason.

Ciao BL:E :E :E

[TubularBells]

Crikey Irishwingz, wasn't it only 9pm over in Oz when you posted that? := You must have started early!

Generally, those who are going to go with the integrated route, wouldn't do a PPL, but then even if they did, they probably wouldn't need to worry as they've got enough money to sink a battleship anyway!:E

Birdlady, as far as the need for more money, surprisingly enough, the regulations seem to be imposed by the CAA. They state in LASORS:

"The holder of a PPL(A) issued in accordance with
ICAO Annex 1 may, at the discretion of the FTO, be
credited with 50% of the aeroplane (including
TMG) hours flown prior to the course up to a credit
of 40 hours flying experience, or 45 hours if an
aeroplane night qualification/rating has been.
obtained of which, up to 20 hours may be dual
instruction. Any credit given is subject to
confirmation by the FTO at the time of application."

So even if the FTO did want to give you all your hours before you start your integrated course, they wouldn't be allowed to anyway!

I start my ATPL groundschool a week on Tuesday. Ooooo, I can't wait. Second rung...Allay ooopp!:D :D

Good luck with the on-going training!

TB.:ok:

[birdlady]

sorry was just playing devils advocate:E :E :E :E

[Tinstaafl]

There's a fundamental difference in concept between integrated type courses & the modular method. They are both intended to end up with pilots who meet at least the minimum standard for the licence however one allows pretty much any flying experience to count towards the licence and the other only credits specific training time.

In effect the integrated is considered to be more efficient at getting the student to the required standard. This is recognised by the reduced number of hours needed to qualify due to the focused training regime. This is NOT the same as saying that it will be cheaper! There is a whole infrastructure required to support this dedicated training system that must be paid for.

Bear in mind that it's the *whole* of any given course that is assessed as providing the learning environment to achieve the required standard. That's why the experience accepted from 'drop ins' from elsewhere is limited.

On the other hand, the modular system recognises that an entire training course from start to end is not the only way to end up as a competent newly qualified commercial pilot. However, because the mix of experience gained via modular is not necessarily entirely relevent to the CPL requirements, there is a larger number of hours specified to increase the pilot's exposure to skill improving situations.

Modular often works out cheaper in the long run since the student can mix & match to take advantage of cheaper rates at different establishments, even though there is additional flight time needed.

[BillieBob]

The mis-information on this 50% thing is getting a bit out of hand. It's nothing whatever to do with an ICAO PPL or overseas hour-building but relates to any previous experience, wherever gained. Neither is it anything to do with the CAA - it's a JAA requirement for all integrated courses (ATPL, CPL/IR and CPL). The relevant bit of JAR-FCL 1 reads -

In the case of a PPL(A) entrant, 50% of the aeroplane hours flown by the entrant prior to the course may be credited towards the required flight instruction (JAR-FCL 1.165(a)(1) and Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.165(a)(1), paragraph 13) up to a credit of 40 hours flying experience or 45 hours if an aeroplane night flying qualification has been obtained, of which up to 20 hours may be dual instruction. This credit for the hours flown shall be at the discretion of the FTO and entered into the applicant’s training record.

Since an integrated ATPL course can have as little as 140 hours in the aeroplane, of which 100 hours must be solo/SPIC, it makes sense to limit the amount of previous experience that can be credited. In any case, the integrated courses are intended to be for people with little or no previous experience - If you already have a PPL, it makes much more sense financially to complete a structured modular course, which would also probably be quicker.

Sorry to post this info twice, Scroggs, but I didn't want it propagating any further.

[TubularBells]

Did I say CAA?! Duh! I should have seen that one!

I guess I should just leave the advice to the experts! I'll just go back to asking lots of questions. Much easier!

I'll just get my coat shall I?:}

[Irishwingz]

Tubual et al

Thanks for the info. I've sobered up now. Still think the modular is the way to go and use ALL my precious hard earned and blood and swaet soaked hours:p

[esvdx]

I undertook hours building in Oz prior to commencing my CPL back in the UK 18 months ago. There was no problem confirming my hours prior to starting the CPL or for license issue up at the CAA. I recommend getting your log book signed by the flying school and keep their contact details on your return should the CAA want further info.

You do have to jump through some hoops to get your UK PPL validated for use out in Oz and you need an ID card for airside access at most fields (Do a search here on PPRuNe for more info - it has changed since I did it!).

I flew out of Melbourne, but visited Bankstown a couple of times, a nice busy airfield to get some experience in, with quite a lot of interesting controlled airspace around.

Good luck with your hours building.

esvdx