"A" Check

[gpdaly]

The subject arose at a recent instructor meeting regarding the legality of check alphas. I understand that it is the instructors duty to inspect the aircraft on every flight until the student has at least his/her PPL.. .. .A lot of instructors me included will quite happily supervise the student through a check alpha until he/she gets it right and then as part of the authorisation sign the check alpha box on the premise that the student has carried it out.. .. .The problem arises when the student needs to go solo. The primary instructor may not be present at the time that he/she needs to go solo and so another instructor will have to authorise the flight and do a walkaround.. .. .I have seen students sign for check alphas but not convinced of its legality.. .. .What is the best way forward??

[twizzle]

I suggest that sometime before going solo a student will be proficent at carrying out an "A check" and that is noted in his instructional record.. .. .Pilot in command is responsible for ensuring is fit to fly.. .. .Student on first solo is pilot in command.

[Noggin]

The Check A must be completed in accordance with the LAMS schedule; without it the C of A is not valid. There is no requirement for anyone to sign for this check.. .. .The check must be completed prior to flight by a person to whom the owner, or operator has entrusted the check.

[MJR]

I think as an instructor you are only legally obliged to make sure the student has enough oil and fuel for the detail plus any contingency's.

[twizzle]

Noggin,. .I agree with you, but what if there is an incident?. .. .The validity of C of A will be one of the questions asked by the CAA and the Insurance company.. .. .A signature would be proof that the check was done.. .. .Our members always sign.

[Noggin]

My quote was from a hand out on the Check A written by the former CAA Head of Enforcement. There is no legal requirement for a signature, and a signature doesn't mean you met the legal requirement.

[twizzle]

My Quote from same source.. .. ."If a pilot or another person signs for a check A which is not completed then the C of A is not valid and there is a risk of prosecution or civil action in the event of an incident or accident". .Seminar June 2000.

[Checkboard]

As a matter of interest I had a reasonably advanced student walk out to the aircraft one day for the walkaround.. .. .An engineer was working on the engine, and had removed the oil cooler (in a PA28), leaving the left cowl open, lines and tubes hanging out, oil cooler missing, and he had wandered off to get another tool.. .. .The student walked up to the aircraft, camly closed the cowl, finnished the walk around, and hopped in to start the engine <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> . .. .A bit of environmental conditioning there - he had never found an error on the walkaround, and thus didn't expect to. The engineer was supposed to take the keys and MR from the office before working on the aircraft as well. Just shows you have to watch people.

[GAF4139]

Hello, I am just a student pilot with around 26 hours in my logbook. If I remember right, I started doing the walk around on my own from my fifth lesson onwards.. .. .The first couple of checks I would always walk around the airplane with the checklist in one hand. Now I only use it for the cockpit checks and only refer to the checklist for the outside checks if I am in doubt about anything, but I still do the walk around in the same order as per checklist so I don't miss anything.. .. .If I find the slightest irregularity or there is something I am not sure about (even if it is only a drop of water or a bit of dirt in the wrong place) I will point it out to my instructor. Only if he can give a sufficient explanation and can convince me that everything is ok I will go ahead with flying. . .. .So far I have come accross the following during my checks: a wobbly control yoke (too wobbly for my taste, but ok for flying), a seat not properly screwed to it's rails, flaps which could not be lowered to the third stage, and a brake failure found out while commencing taxying (my instructor confirmed it was the brake, not my inability to use the rudder pedals properly).. .. .Because I always perform a very thorough check my instructor usually relies on my word when I say everything is ok.. .. .I can only recommend to every student pilot to always do a proper check since their own life might depend on it. For the instructor it will be a matter of judgement whether they can rely on the check performed by their student.. .. .As far as I am concerned, should I ever get my PPL, I will continue to ask more experienced pilots for advice should I be in doubt about anything during an aircraft check.. .. .GAF4139

[A and C]

GAF i dont want to fly with you........you seem to have had more go wrong in a few months than i have in twenty years !.

[GAF4139]

A and C. .Why don't you want to fly with me? All the things I mentioned in my post I found before we took off. Would you rather fly with a pilot who does not detect faults of the aircraft during the check and then gets into serious trouble when up in the air?. .. .Maybe I found more faults in a few month than you did in twenty years because I do a more thorough check of the aircraft before I go flying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .GAF4139

[Chuck Ellsworth]

A & C:. .. .Maybe you are looking in the wrong direction?. .. .Is there not something wrong with the picture GAF described? . .. .26 hours total time and after his fifth lesson his instructor takes his word that the airplane is serviceable.. .. .Maybe GAF is to be commended not criticized, after all he did identify problems that concerned him. His instructor on the other hand does not seem to have the same ability.. .. .If you have not found as many problems in twenty years maybe GAF has flown more than you?. .. ................... . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[rolling circle]

Let's not get confused here. A 'Check A' is not the same as a 'Walkround', assuming that term to be synonymous with carrying out the pre-flight checklist.. .. .The Check A is part of the maintenance schedule for the aircraft, which may or may not be the Light Aircraft Maintenance Schedule (LAMS). It must be completed and signed for prior to the first flight of each day or when the aircraft is returned from maintenance. The Check A may be completed by anyone suitably qualified, which may be a pilot or, perhaps, an engineer.. .. .The Pre-flight checklist, as the name implies, must be completed prior to each flight but is not signed for. According to the ANO, it is the responsibility of the aircraft commander to ensure that the aircraft is fit for flight. If he chooses to delegate the responsibility to an inexperienced student, that's his funeral (pun intended)

[bluskis]

A&C. . Have you never had the misfortune to make the first flight after an annual inspection. GAF's total findings can easily be exceeded in one preflight.. .. .Flight instruction is I presume mostly carried out on transport category CofA's,where the Check A requires the issue of a Cert of Release to Service.This is the check prior to the first flight of the day.. .. .As I understand it, subsequent checks are pre flight checks, and do not require any paperwork, unless the training organisation requires it for their own purposes.. .. .I also understand the preflight and Check A do not require paperwork in the case of a Private Category C of A.

[GoneWest]

Even without "emoticons".....am I the only person who thiks A & C was only being light hearted earlier??. .. .I don't think, for one minute, that he "meant" what he wrote. Lighten up, guys.

[A and C]

Gone west at least I now know that one more person on this forum can see a joke !.. .. .But GAF has had rather a lot happen to him in his 25 or so hours of flying ,I,m sure that I would not be alive now if I did not take all checks with the care that they deserve.. .As one with C of A airtest approval for single and mutli piston aircraft I do get to see a few problems with aircraft but i would be a nervous wreck by now if I had a snagg to flying hour ratio like GAF.