Airbus studies plane to compete with Boeing 7E7

[rotornut]

Reuters
Airbus studies plane to compete with Boeing 7E7-WSJ
Friday July 23, 1:33 am ET


PARIS, July 23 (Reuters) - European aircraft maker Airbus has been working with engine makers to come up with a plane that would compete with rival Boeing Co.'s planned 7E7 widebody jet, the Wall Street Journal Europe said on Friday.
Airbus, owned by European aerospace group EADS would however not develop a completely new model but would likely modify its Airbus 330-200 model, the newspaper said, citing people involved in the discussions.

Changes would include more fuel-efficient engines and possible changes to the wings to increase the plane's range, the newspaper said.

EADS was not immediately available to comment.

[humble_dor]

Reuters' report cannot be correct. If Airbus does prepare an aircraft to counter 7E7 then Airbus implicitly acknowledges that A330 is now obsolete.

[Groundbased]

This sounds more like a case of Airbus considering what it needs to do to enhance the A330 to ensure it competes squarely with the 7E7. i.e existing model development programme.

[Crawler]

The report I read suggested efficiency was not much different between 7E7 and A332. Main A330 problem was range.

The 7E7 is just a next generation 767/777. This is a normal product lifecycle event. There will undoubtedly also be a next generation Airbus equivalent but at a later date as the A330 is a largely younger and more advanced product than Boeing’s.

[rotornut]

If Airbus does prepare an aircraft to counter 7E7 then Airbus implicitly acknowledges that A330 is now obsolete.

From the Wall Street Journal, July 23:

...Creating a new version would probably cut the value of A330s now in service because airlines and customers may prefer newer models.

[yakker]

From Mike Sinnett, Boeing's chief engineer

For airlines, the advantages of operating a more electric plane are
enormous, Sinnett said. The cost of overhauling brakes will drop
substantially. There will be no more ducts that require periodic
inspection and maintenance. Power is not wasted. Efficiency is improved.
Weight is saved
And for Boeing, it means the 7E7 will have a significant advantage over the competition, Sinnett said.
The main competitor to the 7E7 will be the Airbus A330-200, which was introduced in the late 1990s and has been clobbering Boeing's 767 in sales.
Airbus has said it is not worried about the 7E7 -- it will add the more efficient engines designed for the 7E7 to the A330-200 and make other improvements as needed. But given the significant changes being designed into the 7E7 from the start, Sinnett said, there is no way that Airbus can alter an existing plane and make it as efficient.
"You have to look at the total integrated package of an electric plane," he said. "You can't take one piece of that and put in on a non-electric plane and expect anything out of it.

[humble_dor]

From the Wall Street Journal, July 23:

...Creating a new version would probably cut the value of A330s now in service because airlines and customers may prefer newer models.


.. and sinks hope to sell any A330-classic in the next 3-4 years.

The modified A330 won't be ready sooner than 7E7 because of engines availability. Airlines will prefer to wait for the new A330 or 7E7 than buying the current A330. There are a lot of 767 in Mojave that can come back to service as stop gap.

[MarkD]

What's needed is a 330 update (for 7E7-8/9) and a 310 replacement (for 7E7-3). The 310 is still selling for military applications so old is still good.

[Thunderball 2]

Guys, the real world went that way;

- Expect Airbus to sell every single A330 "classic" slot for the next four years, at least. Try getting a delivery position right now this side of 2007.
- Service entry in 2009 for B7E7 is a long way away.
- And Airbus can - and will - reduce price of A330 if they need to. It's still a hell of a good performer in terms of economics.
- The crew commonality factor on the A330 is a big issue for many existing operators flying other Airbus equipment.
- What's this about B767s at Mojave filling the gap? Are we talking 20-year old JT9D-7R4D aircraft? Are you kidding?! In case you hadn't noticed, the serious metal - B767-300ER - are like hen's teeth.

[panda-k-bear]

I don't see why Airbus need to move on anything just yet - Thunderball's right - you can't get a new one for love nor money these days. Their production is flat out and all the slots are filled.

I'm deeply suspicious of some of the claims on the 7E7. I fully believe Boeing can and will do it - but an all composite fuse by 2009? Won't the authorities want some serious research done there first for fatigue?

One of the Boeing brochures says that the 7E7 has "20% lower fuel burn" but never says against what or under what conditions. A word of warning - if you assume that to be against the A330 you'd be wrong! Our research shows that not to be the case - it's against the 767!

And whatsmore, that's per trip. When you take the per seat basis, the A330s on top because it's got more seats. The only place Airbus need to be catching up is on range, but are there many airlines out there who would use all of that range? Maybe the 7E7 is too much aeroplane in that respect?

[ElectroVlasic]

Some unofficial numbers floating around the 'Net:

A330-300 5600 nm, 295 pax
A330-200 6700 nm, 253 pax

A350-900 7400 nm, 295 pax
A350-800 8500 nm, 250 pax

The A350-900 has 32% more range than the A330-300.

The A350-800 has 27% more range than the A330-200.

Both at similar pax counts.

It will be interesting to see if these end up being the actual numbers, and if so, it'll be interesting to see if Airbus can improve the A330 range by ~30% by using better engines and improved wings, or if they'll have to do more than that.

--ev--

[swh]

humble_dor : Your logic would also imply the 777 is obsolete

panda-k-bear: Your not the only one, many operators got burnt on the 737NG with similar claims from Boeing, compared to the A320, you need to add the winglets to the NG and fly long sectors to start seeing a differance, but inside the cockpit its way different to the 737OG.

My guess Airbus will look are remanufacturing packages from lighter materials, use a lighter engine, with lower fuel burn.

The 330 has also been a winner on the longer sectors with the cargo volume available, the 330-300 has more cargo hold volume than a 777-200.

I also see the 7E7 being the slowest jet they have put on the market, would not be surprise me to see the 7E7 cruising between A340-200 and A330 speeds to get that range.