Insurance, I know but what is the official line

[Dean Johnston]

Hi,

If this has been coverd before then please excuse me, as an instructor of 6 months i have this nagging doubt about insurance. If for instance a trial flight goes wrong who does the punter sue? I know that in the past it has always been the schools, but, in this day and age could the insurance company say, hang on a moment this guy is self employed you need to sue him. Leaving me to fight the case in court with the risk of me losing my house and everthing i own? I have spoken to a few insurance companies but they say it is a grey area. Does anyone have the official line?.

Thanks.

D.J.

[StrateandLevel]

I dont think its a grey area at all; if you are negligent, then anyone can sue you for all you have, its up to you to cover the risk by having appropriate insurance.

It is unlikely that the aeroplane insurance will cover you the pilot for any form of accident and even less likely for lliability.
Ask the school to see their policy, find out in black and white what it covers, then try and get a policy to cover you for all of the things not covered. Thats where it gets difficult as there do not seem to be any suitable policies that are easily identifiable.

I don't know what you mean by an official line, most instructors are inadequately covered. Interestingly, EASA will soon require all aircraft to have insurance cover; however, this is not likely to specify anything more than third party cover.

[Dean Johnston]

I have been informed today by my school that none of the self employed instructors are covered by thier insurance, also I attended a forced landing on tuesday ( Guy put down in a field 1/2 mile from airfield, tried to stretch the glide and stalled) I was driving the fire truck ( closest to it at time of mayday ). I have been told today by the school that the fire truck is also not covered, even on the field. Now suppose i'm doing an airfield inspection an damage a private a/c. who pays?

Thanks

D.J.

[Flyin'Dutch']

If you are not covered then it will be you.

Were you part of the firecrew? If so why are you not covered?

FD

[Dean Johnston]

F.D.

So where do I get cover ? I have spoken to various insurance companies without joy. I have also spoken to IOPA, they pointed out that traditionally the schools insurance has covered it, But, in this day and age of ' No win no fee ' culture it is only a matter of time before it happens. On the point of negligence an engine failure or other failure may result in injury, not negligence but the same result.

On the point of ' were you part of the fire crew ' we are trained by the resident firefigher on the use of the appliance and equipment. ( for which no reward is offerd by the school )

My CFI said today ' simple dont drive the firetruck ' Does that mean I have to watch someone burn?

D.J.

[FNG]

No, you rescue the guy if you can. The law is not as daft as people think it is and favours rescuers and other public spirited types. Regrettably, however, as an instructor you or your estate are potentially exposed to claims in respect of flying accidents, if negligence can be proven by direct evidence or by inference. Seeking insurance against such claims would in my view be prudent. Having said this, I am not sure that there have been many successful claims against individual instructors. The world of professional mountain guiding was rocked (no pun intended) a few years back when a Guide was found liable in respect of his client's death following an accident in the Alps (the Guide placed only one ice screw instead of two in a fast melting ice traverse: judgment call, or negligence? The Judge said the latter), but a flood of similar claims did not follow.

[orionsbelt]

I have the aerobatics FI rating and a couple of years ago had a couple of PPLs who wanted to learn Aeros in there own A/C. I spent a lot of time trying to obtain personal liability insurance for both Aeros instruction and normal FI instruction. Was unable to find any company who did such insurance and was advised that it would cost a fortune anyway. AOPA were no help at all!

My major concern was that given the current claim culture what would happen at some future date if an accident occurred to one my Aeros students.

My conclusion therefore was to ensure that my lectures, briefings and flight demos could not be found to be faulty. To this end I had each student sign an indemnity for the complete course that they knew the risks etc and that I could not at any future date be held liable for their future accidents. In addition they agreed to sign for each lecture, pre-flight brief and demo flight they were satisfied for the content of each briefing / flight. I.e. I can prove I have not been negligent because they have said they are satisfied with the content of the training etc. Now none of that is foolproof but it would provide some positive evidence that I had done everything possible to ensure non-negligence if things ever went to court.

So all in all what a total load of rubbish and waist of time and effort to privately teach PPLs aerobatics and all for £10 a lesson so now I don’t bother doing private aeros instruction anymore.. bit sad really!!!!!!
:(

[Squadgy]

Dean

Re your fire fighting activities - you say you were trained by the resident fire fighter - did this comply with the requirements of CAP699 'Standards for the competence of Rescue and Firefighting Service (RFFS) Personnel employed at United Kingdom licensed aerodromes ? ' Simply being shown the equipment isn't good enough !
Also you say you jumped in because you were the closest to the jeep - I think I'm correct in saying that your airfield should have nominated fire cew (e.g. at a Cat 1 airfield, a branchman and driver), whilst these personnel can be engaged on other tasks, I'd be surprised if an FI could fulfill this role if you were also scheduled to fly.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Sorry not to have got back to you earlier.

I think there would be no risk of you being taken to task over rescueing someone if it was clearly a Samaritan's gesture.

However if you were driving the firetruck for fun and bumped it into an aeroplane a differenc view would prevail!

FD