Straight-in approaches should be banned at uncontrolled airfields

[hugh flung_dung]

I hate straight-in approaches and dissuade my studes from doing them without ATC because it invariably b**ggers up someone else in the circuit and also gives them difficulty with approach judgement and checks (i.e. forgetting them). IMHO it's far better to fly down the dead side, parallel to the rwy, at circuit height and then break onto crosswind - effectively an IP join.

If anyone else teaches this at non-miltary fields what R/T calls do they make? If I'm low and fast returning after aeros I normally call "finals to break" and otherwise "joining deadside".

Views, comments, etc??

[Squawk 8888]

HFD, I'm surprised it's an issue because straight-in is verboten here. Procedure is to join on the downwind, or to cross over the field and enter the middle of the downwind leg. For R/T we call joining, base, final and clear of rwy.

[Say again s l o w l y]

We have a problem with some people doing straight-ins at our little 800 odd metre strip. The call we often hear is " G-XXXX, 5 mile finals"!! This normally creates alot of swearing from anyone in the circuit, usually me!
If there is no one else in the cct and you actually know what you are doing (ie not forgetting pre-landings etc.) then I don't see a problem doing a straight in approach. When there are other people about then it's very discourteous and most who do it seem to forget that when you join the circuit then traffic already in it has right of way.

However I certainly don't teach them as a matter of course, even joining base leg can get them all confused, unless I'm running late then I prefer them to do O/H joins.

[foxmoth]

HFD = If it is an uncontrolled field YOU are also doing the wrong join (unless a non standard join is promulgated)- you should be doing a standard join at 2,000' overhead to descend dead side and pass overhead the upwind end of the runway at circuit height, THIS is standard join in the UK and if YOU get in anyone elses way doing ANY other type of join YOU should give way.

[CaptAirProx]

HFD, I wish people would stop calling "finals". You can only be on FINAL without the S. Small point but so many say it.

I think the biggest problem with this final join is as someone else has said here, many people have forgotten air law. I am sure a lot of old, been flying for years old boy, pilots reckon that once you are on final you have right of way of anything up to god. Regardless of the fact that you are joining none standard and must give way to circuit traffic. I also get fed up with "long final" calls when they are two miles out. Your scan ends up looking in totally the wrong place and just when you turn final thinking he is still miles out of the zone you see him in your sights just below you and in front. HFD, put Bax's gun pods on your Bulldog and shoot em down. Hope your engine is sorted know?

[Code Blue]

Squawk said:
Procedure is to join on the downwind, or to cross over the field and enter the middle of the downwind leg.

AIP RAC 4.5.2 stipulates overhead join unles you're certain of no conflict, then allows for a downwind join. Having been caught by NORDO traffic I have used overhead joins faithfully for the last 2 years or so, even at local strips.

Interestingly, I flew in the UK recently where the field, which had a tower (the world's oldest apparently). They stipulated overhead joins, but I did a Canadian one as per RAC 4.5.2 only to find the UK version is as above. I should have flown over the departure end of the strip not midfield. This lead to some momentary confusion.

With regard to the original point, I wouldn't teach straight in approaches to uncontrolled strips.

rgds
CB

[Squawk 8888]

Code Blue, I stand corrected. I mentioned the downwind joins because they apply to MF aerodromes (which are damn near everything I fly into) so NORDO traffic isn't an issue (or so we hope).

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Here in Aus you can do straight in approaches into uncontrolled Mandatory Broadcasting Zones, to make it more practical for the heavy jet traffic that goes there. But the circuit traffic still has right of way.
At other uncontrolled airfields (which is about 99% of them here), the latest you can join the circuit is downwind.

Works well until you get the idiot with no radio on a long final out of nowhere

[Noggin]

The problem here seems to be one of Communication. If we self anounce using the correct phraseology others might know what we are doing.

Incidentally there is no such thing as a call to "TRAFFIC" in the UK. If there is an allocated frequency and it is unmanned a blind call to xxxx RADIO is correct (SSL22 para 6). If there is no notified frequency an overhead join is essential.

To ban something in an uncontrolled environment appears to be a bit of a contradiction.

[ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: Noggin ]

[Kermit 180]

Joining straight in at unattended airfields is certainly a stress maker for those teaching students in the circuit. Joining overhead is a better option or on the dead (or as we call it the non-traffic) side. However, be aware of activities at aerodromes including gliding and parachuting.

Kermie

[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: Kermit 180 ]

[18greens]

If the field is uncontrolled there could well be non radio a/c in the circuit in which case radio calls don't help. The only safe way is the overhead join. (except those airfields with airspace above them)

If you call long finals at 5 miles how can you be certain there is no-one else in the circuit.

I've been descended on twice by long finallers who despite radio calls just carried on.(Maybe their radio had failed) Your only option is to go around, they get a bit of a shock when they see you float up alongside them.

Long finals are fine at a controlled airfield but at an uncontrolled airfield can be very dangerous.

[Captain Spud]

IMHO. Far more danger exists when joining the downwind stream (from wherever) than the final stream at uncontrolled / non radio sites .

On final (in theory at least) everyone should be on the extended centre line so you know generally where to look - down wind however you tend to have everybody doing there own thing, some close in, some a mile out! a much greater area in which to try and spot potential conficts.

CS

[Say again s l o w l y]

Spud, Joining downwind is alot safer, yes traffic maybe all over the shop, but in theory that means you are less likely to actually hit somone- big sky theory and all that.
On final you've got less room to manuever, so if you do suddenly find yourself face to face with a muppet your options are far less.
I've had many people push in front of me in the circuit and I would rather they did it on downwind than on finals any day of the week. Though I do give them a thorough Boll*cking when they get back on the ground.

I wish people would remember that often the people in the cct are actually students, some maybe on first solos and to have someone barge their way in can scare the life out of them, not mentioning that it is the height of bad manners.

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: Say again s l o w l y ]