Minimum crew for Ferry flights

[18greens]

If you are ferrying a passenger jet (eg 737) from one place to another (eg Heathrow to manchester) with no passengers how many crew do you need?

Is it just pilot and co pilot or do you need some cabin crew to close and arm the doors etc.

[opsjockey]

We just have a crew of 2 pilots, they tend to leave the flight deck door open and arm the forward door themselves incase of any mishaps. However, its not uncommon for us to carry a postioning crew on the aircraft, when we do we also carry an extra cabin crew member for doors etc.. as those being carried are technically passengers (albeit company pax) and sometimes not on duty anyway.

OJ

[18greens]

Thanks for the reply ops.

I guess the climb rates must be fun on those trips too.

[Pilot Pete]

I guess the climb rates must be fun on those trips too.

Yes. I have flown a 767/200 up to 40,000' in about 10 minutes with favourable ATC! I had heard from someone that the a/c in question can outclimb a Phantom jet, although I don't have a clue as to the accuracy of that claim. Interesting thought though for such a big aircraft.

The initial climb is unbelieveable; right on the stop on the IVSI (6000fpm) and the whole thing takes careful thinking out before you go, especially if the SID in question has a level off restriction under 4000'! Things happen VERY fast and it is very easy to exceed flap speeds, levels offs and the like if you are not totally ahead of the game.

Great fun though, especially if you're just ferrying from Manchester to somewhere like East Mids (about 17 minutes airborne last week I think it was!):)

PP

[You splitter]

Had the pleasure of meeting some aircraft arriving from a country in the far east for maintenance. The F/O was a very friendly chap who looked splendid in his uniform. The following day however he was also the engineer for the aircraft who spend two weeks here overseeing the maintenance.

Now it does make one wonder......!!!!;)

[Old Smokey]

Did a 6 hour positioning flight on a B777 a few months ago, only the 2 of us up front. The flying part was easy, making the galley work to get some food was the difficult part. Thank God we only have to fly the aircraft, making the galley work is the hard bit!

[Flightrider]

The legal minimum on a standard aircraft is flight crew only and it would be expected that flight crew would arm doors as appropriate prior to departure/post arrival. On a 747 aircraft, it is customary (certainly at BA) to carry a cabin crew member on a ferry flight who sits on the main deck to conduct "fire watch" duties.

[AntiCrash]

When the DC-6 was certified it was approved for a crew of two. Airline unions made it mandatory that there was a crew of three when operating for hire. Crew of two was ok for ferry and that has been gone for years. The FE was really an afterthought on the Douglas DC-6 as there was no proper station for them like the Boeings or the Lockheeds. There was also a provision for the 1820-202 powered DC-3 to be operated under Part 135 single pilot so long as the cowl flaps were converted to fixed position and you may have had to do something with the Gear system as well. Last one I know of was Harry Clark's out of Hawii.

[moo]

flightrider, i'm afraid you're incorrect there. BA regularly fly the 747-400 and the 777 from heathrow/gatwick to cardiff on empty ferry flights for maintenance using only captain and f/o.
One Captain I spoke to said that at 6000ft/min in the climb (and rising), they pulled all 4 throttles back and the thing was still going up like a rocket. He said that when you think about it if he had continued climbing at full power, it would've been going up at 100mph VERTICALLY!!!!! :ok:

[GlueBall]

...and not to forget that freighters have no cabin crew, except on occasion a "loadmaster," who in the case of a 74 wouldn't be "downstairs" babysitting the main deck pallets, nor be on "fire watch duties." :uhoh:

[skyslut]

We did a ferry flt Guam to LA in a 747 with just the three of us on-board. We had to arm the door, cook the food, and start the movie our self. (maybe not the movie). On one other flt we took a 757 from LA to NY and I took my daughter along to act as our Flt attendant. ( she was 10 at the time)

[Fragman88]

18 Greens,

I don't have the manuals to refer to, but I'm sure the compartment classification has something to do with it.

In an empty pax cabin there is no fire detection or remote suppression so I would think it needs to be monitored on a regular basis.

If you check the docs. for the definitions of various compartment classifications you may get a clue.

:confused:

[411A]

Have personally done quite a number of multi-sector ferry flights with B707 and TriStar equipment, including trans-Pacific and Atlantic/Middle East, with flight crew only.
The flight engineer is quite handy to have...and strangely enough, the ovens are not a particular problem for them...:)

[earnest]

Yes. I have flown a 767/200 up to 40,000' in about 10 minutes with favourable ATC! I had heard from someone that the a/c in question can outclimb a Phantom jet, although I don't have a clue as to the accuracy of that claim.
The F4 would have been there 8 minutes before you. Sorry.

[matkat]

Done many ferry flights on 747s as a flight mechanic, only ever 3 crew&me.