To heavy to instruct in a 152??

[Foz2]

Hi,

I am looking to get an instructors rating at some point but am slightly worried about one thing.

I am 6ft 3 and 14 stone and I think I might be to big and heavy to instruct in a c152. I did my ppl in a C152 and luckily my instructor was quite small so weight wasn't an issue. However when it came to my skills test I had an examiner who was of average build and we were really struggling when it came to touch and go's.

Apart from being uncomfortable, I am worried that with a student of average size it might get a little difficult wieght wise in a C152. Obviously that isn't the only aircraft that is used for training I know, but if I cant instruct on a 152 it sort of limits my job prospects doesn't it? I know Cabair generally use Warriors or AA5s which is fine, but most of the other schools near me (just north of London) use 152's as their PPL trainers.

Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences of this?

Thanks

Foz

[mad_jock]

Err 14 stone heavy for an instructor? And thats a very light weight examiner.

The size thing is a pain I must admit but you can get round it by putting your arm over the back of your seat after explaining to the student why your arm is being put there or moving yourself sideways at an angle on the seat.

Don't worry there are plenty out there that are bigger and heavier than you flying every day in a C150 for there sins.

MJ

[P!ggsy]

I'm 6'3" and 16 stone (er..mostly muscle) and did my PPL in a 152 with no problems. The only slight issue came about when sitting my test with an examiner of similar dimensions - extra runway and arm strength required to get the b*gger off the ground and the added excitement of doors popping open every 10 minutes. It all added to the learning experience, particularly the demonstration of how to keep the aircraft sliding down finals using only the doors and throttle to control....

[IRRenewal]

And then there is the added problem of only being able to take 40 liters of fuel without busting the MTOW of the A/C.

extra runway and arm strength required to get the b*gger off the ground
Ah, there might have been more than 40 liters on board.

particularly the demonstration of how to keep the aircraft sliding down finals using only the doors and throttle to control....
Didn't realise that was part of the PPL skill test requirements nowadays.:hmm: Not very professional if your examiner starts 'playing' during your skill test in my view.

[witchdoctor]

You'd be surprised just what a C150 or 152 is happy carrying. I'm 6'3 and 16 stone (and a bit :O ), fly with another guy a little lighter, full tanks, some work kit and occasionally a 6 person life raft. Not fallen out of the sky yet. Just check the POH for the W&B limitations.

Biggest problem as MJ has alluded to, is most likely to be 'cabin comfort'. It gets a bit snug up front at times.

[Tubbs]

Not to mention the proximity/body odour issue!

[aces low]

I too am over 6 ft and with flight bag weigh over 14stone. I insist that student has to be less than 14st and not too wide to train in the 152...else its the PA28 or C172 for them. One note of caution. If you take off knowingly overloaded and have an accident, what will the insurance company say. If someone (god forbid is killed) are you or your family going to be paying out large sums of money?

My own view is that I don't get paid enough to risk my licence and life by flying overweight. Why should you?

Hint. If you ever get refuelled by a refueller never ask for full tanks. Weight of aircraft then unknown.

[tonker]

Long live the PA38,Traumahawk,Terrorhawk or whatever(5'6 17 stone) in this aircraft you really can get 10 pounds of **** into an 8 pound bag. Excellent vis and well placed ventilation for those hot sunny days, and in the right place too!(men only)

good luck

[Foz2]

Thanks for your replies,

All I can say is that when I went up with my examiner, it wasnt really a pleasant experience, flying wise and comfort wise and not really one I would want to do day in day out as an instructor.

I also dont think its very fair to the potential student if their instructor is so big that it makes the experience of learning to fly an uncomfortable one - after all they are paying vast sums of money to train.

I know if I'd had an instructor who was of a similar size to my examiner I would have found it pretty unpleasent as a pupil.

I agree with Aces low about not being overwieght - after all its not a very good example to set your student!

Are there other schools around london apart from Cabair that operate slightly larger aircraft as their main ppl trainer?

Cheers

Foz

[Pronto]

Yeah. Enstone Flying Club (Oxfordshire - about 70 miles from London) uses Socata "Carribean" series as their trainers.

These are all four seaters, though they also have a Katana.

[LDG_GEAR _MONITOR]

PA38 is the best ! how about 2 average guys full fuel - and an aztec main wheel, tool box and also a jack suitable for a main wheel change ! and still she flew fine !

(although was interesting in the downdraughts over snowdonia but thats another story ! :ok: :ok: :E

[IceHouse]

Did about 200 hrs instruction on 152's last summer comprising mostly trial lessons (I'm 6ft 1, 13stone) and found the aircraft struggled with the high OAT in Jul/Aug and heavy customer's onboard, must have had a few 18 stone people at least!

[Airbedane]

Aeroplanes, like people, get heavier wih age. I'm 15 stone and with a similar weiht colleague colleague, we would have to limit our fuel to about 3 litres if we were to fly a 152 together. That's why my club changed most of it's 152's for 172's last year.

Given the weight of the average person nowadays, and the weight of the average 152, I believe it's days as a useable instructional machine are numbered.

Go for the rating, Foz2, and use it in something larger than a 152.

[mad_jock]

Right the lot off you.


We all the piss with mass and balance and max TO weight as Instructors

As much fun as it is to tell all the war storys about how we manged to remove a Light aircraft away from mother earth being totally away from what the CAA says is correct.

Remember its completly illegal. Yes we all do it and don't take a second thought day today day but...............

[jsf]

mad_jock

We both did our FIC with the same school and hence the same instructor, as did aces low.

We therefore know both the capability of 150/152s as well as the limitations. However, as you point out it is illegal and if you fuc* up and can be proved to be negligent then your neck is well and truly on the block.

Flying school operatins people are well aware of the limitations of two seat trainers and should make provision for the A/C being fueled to a known quantity less than full that will give you some extra carrying capacity.

As for your assertion that we all do it all the time..........speak for yourself. Personally I would not knowingly fly above MAUW. If you get someone who is just too heave for a 152 they will usually be quite happy to trade a little time on a trial lesson or pay a few quid extra to go in a four seat Aircraft, especially if you let them take someone in the back...........so long as they don't both weigh 24st....:)

jsf

[mad_jock]

Sorry chaps i have proper job...these days....

But i will admit I did used to listen to the shakes. But these days he drinks way to much for me to listen to him.

MJ

He is alcholic if he dosn't like me saying it the mods have me
address so ...

[mad_jock]

Sorry chaps for that last very drunken post which I have just found again.

The person I was refering to is way north of the border and is causing me some amount of grief at the moment.

MJ

[robione]

Does it not become a pleasure flight requiring an aoc if you take a 4 seater and give flight instruction to the person occupying the front seat whilst the rear seat pax are only along for the ride hence the pleasure flight hence needing an aoc ?

Clarification required here from pprunes legal begals

[whatunion]

Foz dont worry about it.
When i was a very stupid young flying instructor and around 13 stone i took a average weight male student up in a cessna 150 and it was ok and climbed ok etc...............

Oh PS i should mention i also took the 9 stone bird i was trying to impress from the last lesson in the back crouched down as well.

One of the great advantages of instructing in the middle of nowhere is not too many people can see what a pratt you are!

older and wiser whatunion

[Finals19]

Just reading this post with some interest...! In this part of the world (see footnote for location) flying schools have become super fussy about aircraft loading and being within MTOW....

A couple of years back, a group of guys here decided to rent a 172 and fly off for a bit of an adventure out into the wilderness. Sadly they never made it, since they loaded the plane up over MTOW and she never made it over about 100ft before descending tail first back into the ground.

During my commercial instruction here, it was understood that before every flight full W&B calcs were made to determine CofG position and that we were within limits - obviously by exceeding MTOW there is a good chance you are not. Since we practiced spins on a daily basis I would check and recheck my calculations. When I initially got my PPL a few years back in the UK, I do recall do a flight once to Fenland on a warmish day in a C150 - we were overweight for sure...lets just say that it is mighty lucky that the fields bordering the aerodrome there are flat and there are no obstacles because climb performance was in the 2-300fpm range at best....

Oh yeah, and as someone said on here - its illegal!:\

[whatunion]

bet it was an out of limits c og g rather than weight that suprised them, if you can get it into the air weight possibly isnt the problem