Go Around Threads

[cessna l plate]

OK Guys.
I don't know about you, but I am sick of reading "XYZ go around at ZZZ" threads, along with todays helping of "747 hits an air jetty" (Who cares, apart from the geezer that has to repair the bridge?)

Now, before we begin to assasinate poor Cessna L Plate, please, I am but a humble student pilot, and not in the same spehere of the aviation world as most of the guys reading this. But I AM FED UP of these threads.
So..........
I believe that they are generated from one of two sources.

1. Interested Enthusiasts.
Please folks, as has been said a million times before, a go around is a normal operational procedure, I practise them as part of my general training, as do all other pilots, no matter what they fly! Should you require any further insight into this situaton, please go and puchase a copy of Trevor Thom volume 1 and read up on it!

2. Fleet Streets Finest (Ha ha)
I do beleive that the majority of these post come from journos attempting to put together a "jet in near miss horror" story. Get it into your heads, this is a routine occurence, and is not out of the ordinary. If the pilot was to continue an approach when a go around is needed, then this would be newsworthy, which is why we go around. Secondly, have you considered that what you are asking is a group of industry professionals to sensationalse what they do and pass comment on thier peers? It's a bit like asking a journalist to explain the headlines in the Sunday Sport!! It just goes to show how mis-informed and ridiculous some journos are!!

Now, can we please stop wasting bandwith on these pointless threads? Thank You
I'll go and crawl back under my stone now!

[mini]

Cessna,

I'm still not sure what in me decided to answer your post.

1) I dont believe that there are so many Journo's on this forum that want a juicy story regarding a GA. They will write whatever gets them space.

2) from a drivers perspective it seems these are is a standard response to whatever, its just done.

3) Keep the head level

mini

[BRUpax]

You forget the many young plane spotters that have invaded this site. I don't think many have yet realised that Danny has set up their own forum. By the way, yesterday, in my vehicle, my approach to exit 15 on the E314 was not stablised and I had to go around - to exit 16. No one must have seen it because I can't find any thread on it.

[amanoffewwords]

Funny how the ones that complain always show as "just another number" or similar. :rolleyes:

[chiglet]

[Very] Many years ago, a BAC111 went around at Brum, from rw/15 [City to airport :p ]. Before the beggar had started his downwind leg of his [now] vis app, the local rag was on the blower:mad: asking the usuall crud......:} :mad:
watp,iktch

[The African Dude]

Although Cessna might have come across as angry I think the essence of what he's saying is fair enough.

As long as the threads are kept to the Spotter's Corner ...
As for journo's.. well they will always write what they wish, regardless.

My 2d's worth.
Andy

[BUENOSAIRES]

TODAY I WENT FOR MY BA INTERVIEW, AND GUESS WHAT, I GOT LOST AND I BEEN GOING AROUND THE ROUNDABOUT IN BATH ROAD BECAUSE I COULDNT FIND CRANEBANK. iTS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT??????
REMEMBER EVERYBOY HAS THE RIGHT TO ASK AND SAY WHATEVER THEY LIKE THATS WHY WE LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY.
RESPECT THE OTHERS IF YOU WANT TO BE RESPECTED!

[Jerricho]

This is starting again elsewhere regarding a 747 gound incident at LHR.

I can fully understand peoples frustration and annoyance at these sort of posts. Look at the initial post of that thread. It doesn't even attempt to start a discussion. It maybe a statement of fact, there is no denying that. But when you see posts like this and the similar "I saw a go around at XYZ airport", eyebrows can be raised. Sure it's a rumour network. While were all can be a little inquisitive, I'm sure a great deal of these post are simply a fishing expedition to see if anybody involved (or not involved but want to make it up) will be prepared to say "Yeah, there was a f*ck up and here's happened!!".

I know I get p*ssed off cause I have been burnt by these sort of fishing trips. I happened across a news report one day about a go-around incident at LHR. The way the paper reported it, it sounded like one of the most dangerous situations ever seen at the airport. The truth.............a regular ATC initiated go-around because a biz-jet pilot missed his exit off the runway and rolled longer, which caused the following heavy to go around. How did I know? I was controlling when it happened. There was a thread on here about it as well, and it almost seemed one or two posters were almost disapointed there wasn't more to it! Human nature.............sure is. Annoying, yup, that too.

[DanAir1-11]

I think curiosity is an integral part of the human psyche. However must agree that there seem to be more than a few of these posts, although I have to confess to being included a while back!

On an similar note, MANY years ago was on short finals to 06 Ringway (Manchester International) and were politely advised
at the last possible minute to execute a GA due to debris.

Now as you would be aware you can't exactly tip-toe anything that has Speys attached, and being rwy 06 you cross Cheadle ?? Road immediately prior to the hard stuff. This particular day one of the local TV mobs were doing a docco on the affect of people living in close proximity to airports and associated effects. Of course a 1-11 at full noise right over their cameras was the things dreams are made of for journo's and needless to say we has a fairly
adventurous time of it once we got onto the concourse! No big deal was made of it in the end but I imagine if the same thing happened today ! ! ! -

[slamer]

Ummmm...........Dont read them!!!!

[Codman]

Slamer - Quite agree, ignore them. And if you do succumb to your inquisitive instincts please dont warble on and on about how it was 'a professional doing his/her job'. Those that do it sound pompous.

However, where is XYZ? Sounds like a devil of a place to get into.

[wbryce]

A free country ?? Tell that to the tax payers! :O

[Jerricho]

Those that do it sound pompous.

Just hang on a second Codman. You may not seem to care when you see a fellow aviation persons actions being questioned.............perhaps even yourself. But there are those here that do. Perhaps the way it's gone about isn't the most congenial, but when you consider the passion that many in the industry have for their jobs, some of the backlashes and statements are more than a little understandable.

[PPRuNe Pop]

This particular subject has been a bone of contention on PPRuNe for years, and while it is acceptable the childish little rants from one or two of you are not.

Keep a debate going, not personal gripes against whoever you choose.

Do it! You will feel better.

[Codman]

Jerricho - Commercial aviation and those employed within it being maligned in the press is of great concern to me. An incident I was involved in a few years ago was blown out all proportion, it read like a completely different event.

Unfortunately, answering a regretably repetitive question with 'it was a professional doing his job' (as I've seen a number of times on PPRUNE) is in my view flippant and pompous. To normal members of the public ours is a black art and that answer lends nothing to their education. Whats more, on many ocassions the GA is a result of an error (commited in the air or on the ground) and people be they enthusiasts, passengers or journalists will show an interest. Demonstrating that degree of arrogance and contempt damages the image of aviation arguably as much as any half baked local newspaper story. If reading threads regarding Go Arounds encourages individuals to respond my only wish is that they do so in an informed manner. If it is a member of the press, he'll print exactly what he wants anyway.

[Farrell]

Sigh!........this is pathetic!

Anyone looking in on this place at the moment is being given a great impression of pilots, non-pilots, students, wannabees etc....

Sometimes it's best to just do something else like:

Study....

Fly....

Read a book....

or just have a guava..... Jesus, most of you have too much time on your hands!

Give it a rest!

Rant over

:D

[Kalium Chloride]

Cessna, as a (very hard-)working journo, I get more than a little p*ssed off with the frequent sweeping, uninformed bull that's written about journalists in general on this website - often in the same sensationalist terms which are then hypocritically derided in the same breath and without any sense of irony.

Just to reassure you that a lot of the journos I know - those who are worthy of the profession - have given up wasting their time finding leads on PPRuNe because they're fed up with having to wade through the mountains of crud which disguise the stories and issues which people, particularly pilots, would genuinely like to see explored in the press.

PPRuNe ain't what it used to be, I'm afraid...

[Captain Airclues]

In a post by PPT, in response to the "Wait until the report is published" brigade, he explained that PPRuNe is rather like an electronic version of crewroom or pub chat. Surely, so long as it is placed in the correct forum, then anything that is of interest to aviators or enthusiasts is acceptable?
Although we train for go-arounds, they are relatively unusual, and are caused by a variety of reasons. If I had just had to go-around, I would fully expect to be asked the reason by passengers, cabin crew, engineers and flight management. I would be happy to explain the reason, and would not reply "It is something that I'm trained for so mind your own business".
Perhaps a little more tolerance is required by the 'professionals', particularly on this forum?

Airclues

PS. Did anyone see the go-aroung by the Emerates A330 at Lagos on 9/4?

[PPRuNe Pop]

Well said CA.

Ah Kalium Chloride, you mean we have actually won? Come on, I don't believe a word of what you are saying. We know better than anyone that you troll through the "crud" endlessly to find a snippet that might lead to a story. What we often object to though is mis-representation and so-called journo licence. But then again it damages you more than us.

The talent present on these forums is priceless. Where else would you find so many who are at the leading edge of aviation. The best leg to pull is the right one - it's wooden!

[Kalium Chloride]

What we often object to though is mis-representation



I pretty much object to being misrepresented too. Doesn't stop plenty of ill-informed people on this forum from doing it, though.


Perhaps a little more tolerance is required by the 'professionals', particularly on this forum?

Airclues: It's comments like yours which help restore my faith. Hear, hear, sir.

[Jerricho]

KC, to base a story on this site is folly indeed. There are those here who have made no secret of how they are involved with the aviation industry, and there those that fit into the category warned against at the bottom of the screen.

I guess the issue being discussd boils down to an individual's perception of the intention of the thread (judging a book by it's cover?). As I have mentioned, I personally can't see much sense in threads that start like the one at the moment reference a ground incident at Heathrow. I know there a countless pilots and ATCers here would be more than happy to explain why something happens, or a standard operating procedure. Airclues is right. Perhaps a little more tolerance is required, rather than going off the deep end and making a mountain out of a molehill.

[wonko the sane]

Hmmm. Well as a Cessna pilot, this thread interested me enough to post on PPrune (only about my 3rd post in 2 years!).

Going around in a C172 is pretty straightforward. I didn't learn to land in a small number of hours, so it wouldn't surprise me if I've done more go-arounds than full-stop landings. Importantly: it doesn't cost me anything to go-around, and I'll do it again and again - if the aircraft in front is too slow, if I've heard a radio call that makes me wonder, if there's a tiny bit of windshear, if I sneeze on finals, .....

But how do you train for this in a 747 ? Is this all done in simulators ? Is it possible that a pilot carrying passengers has never performed a real go around procedure in his aircraft ?

FYI. I've only ever gone-around in a commercial jet once. It was pretty late on the approach, the weather was appalling, and beforehand we'd been holding over our original airport for about an hour before diverting. We'd been 2.5 hours late starting, and it was past midnight at this point. All the right conditions for passenger panic. I was sooo impressed. Especially as the pilot later indicated that it was quite a late decision. I realised what was happening, I think, because of being a pilot - but it was so smooth that no-one would have had an inkling. Very professional.

The day before there'd been a "panic in the air story" in the national press, when the same airline had diverted from the same airport (but to somewhere different) after 15 minutes holding, and gone somewhere without snow, and, well, landed. As you do. Funny old world.

[cessna l plate]

Thanks for replying to my original post. I will try to address some of the points raised.
Firstly, KC, I understand that there are good and bad in every walk of life, and I apologise for tarring you with the brush used for what is perceived to be a journalistic norm. But I do find it strange that, other than trade press, I have not seen any mention of the DHL airbus incident in the paper, or the extreme display of airmanship by the pilots to land with half a wing shot off. This is the sort of skill that makes everyone that has anything to do with the pointy end of a plane proud. But then I suppose that this doesn't sell newspapers.

Yes........ I can ignore the threads which appear to irritate me so much. But the aim of the post is not to address this issue, but to point those posting such things in the right place, namely, spotters into spotters corner, and journos out into the open, in the hope that such garbage will be reduced, giving way to more bandwith to the things that matter to everyone.

There are arguments on both sides of this debate, and this is the joy of living in a free (notwithstanding the bloody inland revenue of course) society. So everyone is welcome to an opinion. To quote someone whos name escapes me... "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

[PPRuNe Pop]

It was Voltaire.

[Captain Airclues]

wonko the sane

But how do you train for this on a 747? is this all done in simulators?

Most training and checking is now done on simulators as they are so realistic. Every six months every pilot must be checked carrying out a go-around from an ILS approach. At least once a year this go-around must be flown manually.
In addition, for those airlines that are authorised to operate to decision heights below 200ft there is a check which includes a go-around from the lower DH. In CAT 3A conditions, a 747 starting a go-around from 50ft will decend to about 20ft before starting to climb away. However, in CAT 3B operations when the go-around is not commenced until 20ft, the aircraft will only decend to about 10ft before climbing away. This is because it is in a more 'nose up' attitude at 20ft. If the aircraft should touch the runway during the go-around it will continue with a safe climb out.
During base training we touch down, select T/O flaps, run the trim, set the power and then get airbourne again, well within the runway length, so you can see that, to some, a go-around is a non-event. They are still, however, an event, and it is always interesting to find out the reasons.

Airclues