Painting aircraft

[DVR6K]

Hi all, first post for a while and it's good to be back.

I was wondering the other day how you would go about painting an airliner in some of the complex colour schemes we see flying about today. I imagine it starts on a scaled down model which is then scaled up and applied to the full size aircraft, but the detail and changes in colour (eg Qantas' Wanula Dreaming and the Air New Zealand rugby world cup colour schemes) seem to be quite difficult to do by either a machine or someone who isn't Vincent an Gogh.

Any ideas?

Cheers all.

[747FOCAL]

Very Carefully. Frontier airlines here in the states actually has pictures of animals painted on the tail I think they use something like a giant printer to do it. :)

[Volume]

Most important when
painting an aircraft (http://www.aviationpics.de/ramp/w_md11/page_01.htm) :
No Smoking, highly flamable solvents ! :}

[Boss Raptor]

Quite a detailed question in reality...aside of the preparation, materials and finishing which can differ depending on your needs/budget...to apply the design you first make a paint plan just like you used to get in an Airfix Model Kit...that paint plan is then used in various ways depending on the method of application you've chosen...

Either...to prepare basic decals which are then applied direct to the freshly painted and/or cleaned surface...its' the cheapest method and of course the decals will have to be replaced after 18 months or so...the material is just ordinary 3M type plastic/vinyl films and tends to eventually go off white after exposure to the sun...just as you could if signwriting a van or truck etc.

or...apply the design in paint using standard masking and spraying techniques...complex designs using a computer generated/paint mask

or...the expensive transfer/decal technique which BA uses for the tails of the aircraft and the red tick logo...lasts much longer than the cheaper version mentioned above...this is particular used where you have a large variation of colour graduation texture over a small area...you just cannot achieve that using a spray gun...for example the new Aeroflot tail has over 200 different graduations/variations of 4 colours on it so I am told

or...a combination of all 3 (or at least last 2 methods)...inevitably smaller details such as registration, 'cut here' signage etc. are done using the decal technique these days

All made almost simple/straightforward by the advent of the computer which 'shrinks to fit' so to speak

[davie bhoy]

Looking back at some of the posts i came across one titled Aircraft painting.

Using someone who is very knowledgable in his specific field but not on the repainting side, i would say tread very carefully.

I looked over all the replies and have seen and heard it all before.

With all due respect of coarse.

The amount of people i have seen and heard saying things like oh no problem anybody can spray an Aircraft, go on yourself big man.

Its not as easy as people think and the problems that can arise just from the mixing and application side alone can be mind knumbing, i can asure you.

The MOST IMPORTANT PART OF ALL being the preperation
because any flaw or poor workmanship in this essential part in the jigsaw is the most important of all.
paint will show the smallest of flaws making it almost magnify before your eyes.

And thinking you are saving on money should be the last thing on your minds if you are the owner of an Aircraft.

If you pay peanuts you will get monkey work.

Yes you can use cheap materials, cheap paint, basically cheap as chips if you so wish.

But the finished result will look like a blind cobblers thumb on a bad day

Stick to the job or trade you trained for is my saying, i would never try telling say an engineer how to go about his daily routine

I never believe for one minute after nearly 26 years in the painting trade, that i know everything.

All the coatings for aerospace use are carsnagenic, BREATHING APERATUS BEING PARAMONT.

[411A]

Indeed they are...deadly that is.

Polyurethane paint is, IMHO, the best there is, and of these, the first successful one, DuPont Imron still leads the pack.

Toughest paint known to man.

As for painting airliners, the finest paint shop in North America is Dean Baldwin...Florida and New Mexico. We should know, have had several aircraft painted there.
Superb work...but not cheap.
You get what you pay for...and aircraft painting is no exception.

[ferrydude]

Imron on airliners?? Better not let any Skydrol get near it

[SkySista]

Apparently Boeing have in their employ a few "artistic" painters who do the 'one-off' color schemes on the tails... e.g. China Airlines Cargo with the flowers, or as someone mentioned, things like the Frontier animals....

Seems it's a combination of handpainting and spraygun use, depending on the level of complexity in the logo.

All that I saw were using proper suits/breathing apparatus. Quite interesting to watch actually!

Sky

[BobZyurUnkl]

Didn't KLM experiment with painting their A/C with rollers? It was suppose to be faster and less expensive.:confused:

[davie bhoy]

We used to use rollers for the paint application on the VC10 fleet in the Air Force.

The finished results were quite good under the circumstances.
All down to health and safety, then moved on to contracting myself out to companies far and wide.
Brilliant times now though ive gone on my own just finished a light Aircraft in zebra design.

using the spray mask decals talked about earlier in the post.
It was a nightmare sorting through 27 ten foot long by 3 feet decals trying to marry the all together before the applicatio to the aircraft surface.

The finished results look really good .
If anyone is interested e-mail me and i can send you a photo if you wish that is

[ferrydude]

Rollers?? My Gawd! This would be considerably more expensive as it would use more material and add more weight to the aircraft than pressure spraying. It is hard for me to imagine any paint shop applying a top coat to a transport category sized aircraft with any technique other than the electrostatic process.

[davie bhoy]

Exactly,
but money was no object i suppose??
The health and safety was obviously more important.
Useing rollers meant the paint was not atomised.

Nearly all the paint facilities on a great deal of camps were upgraded then out of the blue the camp or camps came up for closier.

Same old story spend the budget or it gets taken away the following year

And still spend the money upgrade your paint facility then we will close the camp anyway (crazy *****).

[old-timer]

Ref' painting aircraft -
one VERY important point to remember PARTICULARLY with
pressurised aircraft is to ensure that the aircraft skin is NOT
scratched, gouged or damaged during trimming of paint masks or decals !!

If so - the fatigue life is SEVERELY affected - NOT GOOD !!
The only fix generally is to replace skins !!!

[davie bhoy]

That should go without saying.

All sharps should be avoided on all aircraft skins.
the slightest imperfection cause by any sharp, from a scraper or knife causes disimilar metal corrosion.

Hense the earlier post when someone mentioned getting there Aircraft painted by a non proffesional??

Absolutely no sharps what so ever.

THERE IS ALWAYS AN ALTERNATIVE.

I came across an Aircraft that had the entire design scored with a sharp object.

And the signs of corrosion when the Aircraft was down to bare metal were visable to the naked eye.

You will get chancers and cowboys in all walks of life, but if they could foresee the hidden dangers (speaks for itself).

[ferrydude]

Strange logic indeed, if money was no object, then,why not purchase the equipment to properly apply the paint? Using electrostatic equipment results in very minimal atomization. It is impossible to obtain the specified top coat thickness using rollers.
Use of rollers does not exempt nor minimize the health hazards associated with polyurethane topcoats. The main hazard is that they all contain isocyonates, not carcinogens as previoously posted.

[davie bhoy]

Was always a mystery concerning the application.
then spend millions on upgrades then closier (strange but true).

most coatings in todays Aerospace industy are cancerous though
yes isocyonates in them all

The worst being those with yellow cromeates

But no matter what paint you atomise weather it be the old cellulose, polyurethane or household emulsion ,
as soon as you atomise any of these products it becomes harmful to health.

Hence there reasoning to apply by roller.

in todays market they even have what they call safe paint remover you could bathe in it and it wont burn the skin ,
but applied to the surface of an Aircraft it takes everything down to bare metal.

Still you have to wear breathing aperatus.

I used to work for a German / American Aircraft manufactorer,
we used electostatic all the time but even with the equipment in full working order the paint atomisation was still like fog.

A fantastic methord but not always suitable unfortunately

But the spray guns on the market are all mostly high volume low pressure ( less atomisation)

Whatever, it is still an unhealthy job and you either love it or hate it.

[davie bhoy]

I was wondering if anyone can help ??

Ihave heard you can get a disc which gives you most light aircraft image outlines

iwould like to find out more on this as it would help no end when creating paint designs on clients aircraft


Any information would be great.

[ferrydude]

applying by roller in no way minimizes hazardous exposure to isocyanates

[davie bhoy]

If you spray you atomise and that was a big concern in a hangar which held six large Aircraft
esspecially when there were other trades in the hangar

We applied the paint in the manner in which we were told

Of course there is still fumes but not to the extent when applied under pressure,

[fernytickles]

davie bhoy

If its any help, I tried emailing you at your business address last night regarding paint designers. I'm not 100% sure the email went through. If not, let me know.

[northwing]

I once heard a story about a chap from the owners who turned up at a paint contractor's premises to inspect a repainted airliner tailfin. Asked if he wanted a ladder he replied, "No thanks, I'll just climb up the paint runs."

[davie bhoy]

Northwing


Sad but oh so true,

you will notice up close the larger the Aircraft the more imperfections there are.

Time is of the essence while these large aircraft are on the ground, but should not be an excuse
but still the finished article should look a lot better than they sometimes do

The main areas to look good are the areas around pax doors in which the passengers use to board and depart.

Its common knowledge if it is not at eye level they will try to get away with it, which is totally wrong considering a 757 strip and repaint can cost in the region of 50-60 k or more??

[Notso Fantastic]

Look for God's sake just give me a bucket of pretty emulsion and a roller and I'll paint the damn thing myself!

[davie bhoy]

Oh yeh,
a person of many talents ???
jack of all trades master of none

[Notso Fantastic]

I'll have you know I can land a flightsim Messerschmitt (and spell one too) almost all the time (well, mostly). And I can decorate a room. And I used to make a not bad job of painting airfix models, so it can be done- without running to 3 pages.

[MkVIII]

Getting back ON TOPIC, here's an interesting webpage: http://www.advanced-airbrush.com.au/artintheair.shtml

[niknak]

Alternatively, take your aircraft down to the Heathrow Pre School Playgroup, and leave it with them with their crayons and poster paint for a day - which is what I believe British Airways did a few years ago with the tail designs.... :E :p

[WHBM]

Now a slightly more on-topic comment about the BA tailfins (sorry niknak !) is that when they first came out I'm sure they were described as not being paint at all but done with preprinted adhesive vinyls. Among the benefits described was the ease of changing them compared to paint.

However after the livery's acrimonious demise they seem to have been left around for years, only disappearing on a major check, strip and repaint. There are still several about. So what was the story ? Were they harder to change than described ? Did some people still have a soft spot for them ? Of course the current BA livery is not a different one, just one of the tailfin designs universally applied.

[davie bhoy]

There was many new designs covering various places from around the world

Then they decided to keep just a few
ie pool pottery design
tartan design, and i few more of which i cant remember the designs.

They didnt go down to well so as and when the aircraft go for paint they change them

So we were told

[Notso Fantastic]

WHBM- Ayling liked them. In fact he was the only one. I found them not unattractive, but they palled quickly. Then you realised what a branding disaster they were. Trouble is a repaint is expensive and BA had bigtime debt, so they stayed. The ground vehicles still have the scheme and it's good to be reminded how truly awful it was. An industrial disaster by the worst CE BA has ever had! And haven't they made him a Lord? God help us!