18th Mar 2004, 23:04
Anyone know the official meaning of this. It's on the EDI 06 NDB/DME plate. It says something like " Arrival not below MSA, shuttle in the hold if necessary". I guess it just means lose height in the hold, excuse my ignorance I've just never come accross the term before.
I'm a native english speaker and i havent got a clue as to what that term means.... How do they expect foreign pilots to understand it?
19th Mar 2004, 10:05
A typical JAR ATPL Ops exam question, this one!
Q: What is the term used to describe descending in the hold?
19th Mar 2004, 11:31
I seem to remember, from ATPL studies, that "shuttle" meant either climbing or descending in the hold?
Although in this case it clearly refers to descending, since climbing in the hold wouldn't make sense.
19th Mar 2004, 18:05
What a coincidence! I had an ambulance flight into EDI in the early of hours of this morning and read that term when briefing my approach. Never seen it before either but from context could see that it meant lose height in the hold after arriving not below LSALT.
Onan the Clumsy
19th Mar 2004, 19:47
I thought it meant "be careful, the Glasgow to London flight is already holding"
20th Mar 2004, 01:59
I worked at EDI many moons ago and it is the only place I've come across, before or since, shuttling in the hold. Surely there must be other references to this procedure at places other than dear old EDI?
22nd Mar 2004, 15:26
Glad it wasn't just me!!
Yes, I've seen the term used at other airports, such as CYUL (Montreal Trudeau/Dorval).
And don't worry, Staple, the first time I saw it, it surprised me too.
Transport Canada's "Glossary for Pilots and Air Traffic Controllers" defines it this way:
- - shuttle procedure: A manoeuvre involving a descent or a climb in a pattern resembling a holding pattern. Fr: procÚdure de navette
Just like FFF said.
22nd Mar 2004, 22:36
If I recall correctly it's most likely to be because the the holding area is terrain safe below MSA but the initial part of the approach procedure is not. It becomes an issue following a go-around when the return to the hold might be at a level below MSA and the aircraft would need to climb (shuttle) before starting a second approach.
23rd Mar 2004, 14:33
You want Chapter and Verse?
It's PANS-OPS Vol 1 Part III, Ch 3.
Para 184.108.40.206 Shuttle. "A shuttle is normally prescribed where the descent required between the end of the initial approach and the beginning of final approach exceeds the values shown in Table III-3-1.
Note. - A shuttle is descent or climb conducted in a holding pattern."
Thanks very much, keithl :ok: That's exactly the sort of reference I was looking for.
23rd Mar 2004, 23:23
climb in hold
Perhaps not referred to as "shuttling" but departing Santander in a fully laden BE58, I had to join the hold over the airfield and climb to the MSA before turning south towards Faro.