bmibaby/AIr Wales make agreement

[egnxema]

bmibaby and Air Wales launch new marketing agreement


bmibaby - the award winning airline with tiny fares, and Air Wales - Wales’ national Airline, have formed an agreement to operate flight routes between Cardiff and Glasgow (Prestwick), and Cardiff and Cork.

The agreement, which comes into effect on 28 March 2004, will see Air Wales aircraft operating the flights using their fleet of luxury 48 seater ATRs with bmibaby marketing and selling the flights online at bmibaby.com and via their reservations centre (0870 264 2229).

The deal signals good news for passengers who will continue to benefit from low fares on both routes (internet fares start from just £24.94 one way including all taxes and charges), in addition to an increase in the frequency of services and convenient departure times for business travellers.

The arrangement was made to enable an increase in frequency of the existing flight services which could be facilitated by using the smaller, 48 seater Aircraft that Air Wales currently operates. The move also means that both airlines will be able to increase their services from Cardiff Airport in the future, including the introduction by bmibaby of a third daily service between Cardiff and Edinburgh.

Tony Davis, managing director of bmibaby, said:
“The agreement between bmibaby and Air Wales will enable passengers to benefit from even more services between Cardiff and both Glasgow and Cork. bmibaby is providing marketing and sales support for these routes and Air Wales are providing the operational support in terms of staffing and aircraft.

“In addition to this agreement bmibaby will be able to add a third daily service between Cardiff and Edinburgh to accommodate the overwhelming demand for seats, using one of our Boeing 737 aircraft.

“bmibaby is committed to the development of our successful base in Cardiff and this agreement with Air Wales, which is a first for a UK low cost airline, will further strengthen our position.”

Roy Thomas, Chief Executive of Air Wales, commented:

“This is great news for business and leisure commuters as it will enable us to operate even more regular low cost flights between Cardiff, Cork and Glasgow. It’s an agreement which will ensure that the travelling public gets the best service possible – an ethos which both Airlines are committed to.

“The move will also allow us to further concentrate on developing our portfolio from Cardiff and Swansea. We are currently awaiting the arrival of a 5th ATR aircraft to add to our growing fleet, and we will soon be announcing our new summer schedules which will feature even more low cost and convenient services than ever before.

“We’re delighted to have entered into this arrangement with bmibaby and are confident that it will add value to the service that Air Wales offers to all of its customers.”

Seats on the routes go on sale today, for more information, log on to bmibaby.com.

[brabazon]

eh? Since when has an ATR42 been a luxury 48 seater? What will we see next? "Enjoy the personal comfort of a Cessna 172"?

[BDWW]

I think its a sign that bmibaby isn't doing too well from CWL. These routes are currently operated by a 737, by "downgrading" to an ATR just shows that bmibaby couldn't make any money and there is not enough passengers from these routes. In fact many routes from CWL are not performing well in comparison to EMA and MAN. Apart from the extra daily Edinburgh, i doubt CWL will see new routes and the a/c that was used will probably be used to operate a route from MAN, EMA or possibly even LGW.

[ALLMCC]

I know I promised I would no longer post on these forums however couldn't resist commenting on this one - how long before Belfast is added to this arrangement? - has always been a poor performer - even after Air Wales vacated the BHD - CWL loads didn't improve significantly.

Also begs the question, will Air Wales be able to cope with these additional routes even with the forthcoming additional ATR42?

[Hulk Hogan]

This is good news for Air Wales and should be a good move for Bmi. It would work out more profitable for Bmi to use a smaller a/c if they cannot sustain a 737 but I doubt the fares will be as low as they make out due to the fact it is much harder to sell lower prices on a 48 seater and make it profitable.

Will Air Wales be painting the ATR into BMI colours? and will they use the baby callsign?

I can see both airlines making a profit from this well done Bmi and Air wales.

[GW76]

Sorry I don't agree, give it 6 months and this agreement will end.
It doesn't fit in with the low cost set up. Two opertaors mean half profits. There will be an erosion of Baby's image using other airlines and aircraft - no continuity. If routes are under perfoming, then like FR they should be scrapped. No, I think this spells disaster and at Cardiffs expense.:ugh:

[WHBM]

Does this make Baby the first low cost in Europe to have a commuter carrier as well ? In the US Air Tran (the old ValuJet)have an arrangement with Air Wisconsin for CRJs. But if Baby want a smaller aircraft (bear in mind they started off at Cardiff with BMI F100s on some routes) why didn't they go to BMI again for some Embraers ?

[Eira]

What a load of pessimistic sh*te uttered by those who I assume have no idea of the operation at Cardiff.

This is a deal which compliments both airlines. The Spanish routes flown by Baby are always full, as are the likes of Prague etc, Routes to Prestwick, Cork and Jersey are much better served by the ATR 42 ( and rumour has it ATR72s may be on the way)
Prior to Baby and Air Wales serving Cardiff, British Regional operated EMB145s out of there, can you tell me why it is seen as a down turn for an aircraft offering more seats than were previously offered to be operating the routes.
Small regional aircraft such as the ATR42 also allow for a greater flexibility of routes, places such as Plymouth and lets hope Guernsey can also be added to the route structure.

Cardiff is a small regional airport, the likely hood of it ever becoming one of the "big boys" is remote , so when two airlines whose type of operation compliment each other decide upon a scheme of co-operation it can only be seen as a bonus.

.

[WHBM]

Posted by Eira:

What a load of sh*te uttered by those who I assume have no idea of the operation at Cardiff.

I presume this is a reference to the Baby press release that referred to a "luxury 48 seater ATR " !!!

[MerchantVenturer]

I am confused about the new arrangements. I have checked bmibaby’s summer online timetable (commencing end of March) and the following weekday flights are listed:

Prague - 3 rotations per week; Paris Cdg - 1 rotation per day: Alicante - 1 rotation per day; Malaga - 1 rotation per day; Palma - 2 rotations per week; Belfast Int - 1 rotation per day; Edinburgh - 3 rotations per day; Glasgow Prestwick - 1 rotation per day; Cork - 2 rotations per week.

These destinations also have flights on Saturdays or Sundays or both, and there are also weekend rotations to Toulouse (Sats) and to Jersey (Suns).

None of the flights are being advertised as flown by Air Wales and, Edinburgh apart, the routes have either the same or fewer rotations compared to last summer. It may be that the Air Wales flights are yet to be slotted into baby’s web timetable. If so, I find it strange that the public announcement should be made before the timetable is brought up to date. Or am I missing something?

There is nothing on the Air Wales website about the new arrangements, neither are any flights shown to Glasgow Prestwick on their site.

For some reason baby have changed from the twenty-four hour clock to am and pm on their web timetable which is unwieldy on the page and, even more confusingly, have adopted the US method of showing dates so that, for example, 9/8/04 is 8 September 2004.

This is an interesting initiative and it will be fascinating to see whether it succeeds.

[GW76]

What a load of pessimistic sh*te uttered by those who I assume have no idea of the operation at Cardiff.
We can only presume that you do, therefore, have intimate knowledge of passenger figures, loads at Baby and the strategic commerical decision behind this move.
Ill ask MOL if he would be interested in a similar set up. Any guesses what his reply would be ? Going by Buzz -its not cooperate- but buy up and wipe out.
We'll see how long this arrangement lasts in this planned form.
Give it 6 months.

[Hulk Hogan]

If you look at the booking on bmibaby website and select Cork or Glasgow from 28th of March onwards it says operated by Air Wales.

Why is it when ever Air Wales is mentioned everybody says 6 months? How long they been going for?

Good luck anyway be intresting to see how it develops.

[eastern wiseguy]

Comical Ali sorry! allmcc wrote


know I promised I would no longer post on these forums however couldn't resist commenting on this one


Knew you couldn't resist...nice to see you back:ok: Let the baiting commence. As an aside I had to pick folk up from the Bmi ex Cardiff this afternoon ..looked fullish to me...a lot more than ever would have fitted into a "luxurious Atr 42"

[MerchantVenturer]

Thank you Hulk.

I have played around with the baby booking site and, as you say, they do show the PIK and ORK flights as being operated by Air Wales. In fact, there appear to be two daily PIK rotations on weekdays and one daily (with two on Mondays and Fridays) weekday ORK rotations. I did not check weekends.

Strange that the baby web timetable shows only one daily PIK rotation on weekdays and only two ORK weekly rotations on weekdays.

The baby booking site also shows the flights as having WW flight numbers. I wonder if they will code-share and carry 6G as well.

[brabazon]

MV

This sounds more like a franchise arrangement than a code-share - ie the flights will only have WW codes - bit like when BA used Maersk UK they were only BA flight numbers not VB.

Still can't see the commercial sense in continuing with a route which doesn't generate sufficient traffic for your own fleet, easyJet or Ryanair would have just ditched the route.

[Chillwinston]

Nice to see you back onboard ALLMCC, self emposed exile was a bit extereme but obviously your resistance is weak, lol!

Can understand the benefits for airlines to interline but cast your memories back to the same arrangement BMI had with Eastern and remember how long that lasted and now are competing on the same routes.

Hope it all works out for Roy, at least he has put his money where his mouth is but I just cant see this arrangement working out in the long term.

Chillwinston

[Copenhagen]

Ryanair were right not to compete with BMIbaby when they started flying to Dublin in the same way they competed against Go.

O'Leary must have realised back then that BMI didn't have a clue what they were up to, and would end up shutting their experiment.

A 'low cost carrier' Codesharing with an ATR operator on routes that don't allow interlining (in the way Air Tran Air Wisconsin do at ATL) from a marginal airport in Wales shows signs of desperation at WW.

So, will they survive next winter before LH and SK decide to pull the plug on Bishops knee jerk reaction to Go at EMA?

Reminds me of Buzz planning to go into the mobile phone industry!

[Scottish Flyer]

I understand an Air Wales ATR42 will be painted in BMI Baby colours for this operation. The Prestwick route was due to be reduced to one flight daily from 28th March. It has now been reinstated to the current 2 flights on weekdays with one on weekends. I have used this flight quite freqently over the past 12 months. The one round trip I made between Cardiff and Glasgow only had about 30 passengers on each sector. Of the many return flights I have made to Prestwick, only the flights on Friday evenings, Saturday mornings and Sunday evenings have had a decent load factor of about 75-80%. The passenger load on other flights has always been between 40 to 60 - less than 50%. BMI Baby's response was to reduce the flight to once daily but that would have lost any day return traffic. The Air Wales operation should just about provide the right capacity for the route providing fares do not rise too dramatically as a result. Looking at the CAA statistics, traffic on the route has remained fairly constant since moving from Glasgow to Prestwick. BMI Baby had realised the route was underperforming and the move would have reduced costs although it has not as yet shown much gain in traffic.
BMI Baby have not yet updated their schedules on the web-site but anyone requesting a booking are given the correct schedules.

[MerchantVenturer]

Scottish Flyer,

I think the point you make is a good one. The reduction to one flight per day would have lost those wanting to make a daytrip, and the ATR might be the right size for the route, particularly bearing in mind your personal observations of loads.

Obviously price will be a factor but baby's marketing and ease of booking should be better than Air Wales's.

I now wonder whether the baby CWL-JER, which has been reduced to Sundays only, will now re-appear as a daily flight on Air Wales equipment. Air Wales's owner has said they are to announce their summer schedules soon. The flight could also take in Guernsey I suppose.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Of course the problem load wise is that Yes an ATR will be better suited during the quiet days when a 737 was loosing money on a 50% load. But equally they will be turning people away on the busy days when a 737 would be packing 'em in.

And besides. Pax don't like turboprops - not even nice shiny new ones. You book BMIBaby and you expect a jet. Stupid as it is but Joe Average Pax will feel cheated on an ATR...

It would be great to see Baby thrive at Cardiff but the place has got a bit of a reputation as an airline graveyard. Plenty of people, just no money.

Cheers

WWW

[runawayedge]

I think the only winner is Air Wales. Someone mentioned sharing profits. With a 42 and the fares qouted maybe that should read sharing losses. Wonder if an LBA/LCY is on the cards with this cosy alliance.

[Runway 31]

Well said Scottish Flyer.

Hopefully the service will do all right. I would rather have an ATR than have the service withdrawn altogether.

[WHBM]

Well that was the Kiss of Death.

In parallel with a couple of us writing here that LCC AirTran run a commuter operation in the US using Air Wisconsin RJs, Air Tran announced they were giving the arrangement up !

http://www.businesswire.com/webbox/bw.030504/240655494.htm

[dada]

well as they say in wales, yacky dar

[rsutt1]

BMI BABY AT CWL ARE HAVING AN A/C TAKEN FROM THEM DUE TO EXPANDING BUSINESS IN MANCHESTER WHICJ IS WHERE AIR WALES STEPPED IN

[alterego]

Knowing the loads on the Baby routes I think this is good news.

PIK & CRK do not make sense on 737. The longer PRG, AGP,ALC CDG, BGY, PMI routes are going well and the load factors are good. Hopefully new routes will follow.

As for Air Wales being the only winner, my understanding is that BMI have done their homework on this and the contract is good news for the group.

It's just a shame that it could not be kept in house with regional but then they've gone totally Embraer and don't want anything to do with Turboprops.

[flower]

All sides appear to win from this deal, its is also good news for the Airport and the people of South Wales.
As has been said before the domestic routes were previously covered by British Regional with smaller aircraft predominantly the J41 so the ATR42 is a wise move.
Should this succeed then there can only be room for yet more routes and future growth, I understand that there will be an increase on frequency on some of the domestic routes already with this code share.
I expect there will be a number of changes along the next few months which the normal gloom and doom merchants who have a real downer on anything connected with Cardiff and Wales will jump at with glee, but this is a new arrangement as yet unknown in the UK Low Cost market and It will take time to perfect.

Good Luck to both Airlines :ok:

[Tom the Tenor]

I suppose it would be out of the question for bmi baby to use the 6G ATR to continue the early morning service from Manchester to Cork? Come the start of the summer schedule there will be a substantial decrease from 5 to just 2 daily services from MAN to ORK, one bmi baby and one BA. Lunchtime for the BA and late afternoon for the bmi baby. High season should see more demand than supply - an opportunity there?

[MerchantVenturer]

"The longer PRG, AGP,ALC CDG, BGY, PMI routes are going well and the load factors are good."

alterego,

I am pleased to here this which makes the CDG route decision, reduced from two rotations per day to one per day, hard to follow.
I suppose it is part of the fallout of losing one of the baby 737s from CWL.

It now prevents a quick day's business in Paris without the need to stay overnight. Or perhaps baby realises that not many pax take this option.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Hmmm, to work a 737 with two crews per day on an 8 sector day requires you to be able to have a mix of domestic and med routes. Such as a CWL - Edi - CWL - pmi - CWL in the morning and hten a CWL - Bfs - CWL - Alc - CWL in the evening.

These sorts of parings allow you to offer double daily domestics in the morning and evening (which is what people want) plus every day european shorthaul services (which is what people want).

Its all about making the assets work as hard as possible for as little cost as possible with minimum complexity.

Running 2 737's at a base in conjunction with a code share with an unheard of turboprop operator is anything but.

Cheers

WWW

[skyrabbit]

wee weasley [email protected] sure you're from Wales?


prat

..getting personal rabbit..focus on the problem not the person.

[MarkD]

I would have thought an alliance with Aer Arann would have been a good move for Air Wales, especially if group aircraft and handling deals could be done, given aircraft commonality and market segment.

[reverserunlocked]

I'm with WWW on this. Can't see it being a winner.

BMI Baby's a lo-co. One aircraft type, popular routes, pack em in, sell 'em cheap, ya-da ya-da..

Air Wales however is a brave stab at a Welsh National 'flag carrier' that links CWL with the rest of the the UK. Even though they charge for drinkies they're hardly a lo-co and the whole ethos is different to that of Baby. They use props, fly some low yield routes and are working hard to establish their 'Welshness' and their USP.

Painting one ATR into Baby's colours and co-branding rips up the marketing rule book. Pick a brand and build it. Do it well. Don't mess with it!

[rsutt1]

Although only few of you seem to support the move from WW & AWW i think that both parties gain from it - - - - - AWW get some business and WW dont get snubbed for dropping routes. Both winners.

[flower]

Good thing some of those who post here were not around 100 years ago when the Wright Brothers attempted powered flight, you can just imagine the comments:
never been done before so it will not work etc.

As for your comments WWW regarding an unheard of turboprop operator I didn't think you could sink much lower.
I well remember a 737 diverting into Birmingham with a phone number emblazoned down the side and everyone asking who on earth were they, it was a small fledgling airline very few had heard of and I can well remember then the talk was of how it would never catch on and I bet they will go bust before you know it. Well we all know the story of Easy Jet and no one had much faith in it when it started out.

The negative comments that pervade this forum whenever anything happens at Cardiff astonish me, what is it about the airport that attracts such vitriol. Cardiff is a vibrant happening city and yes the people have money to spend, the trend is changing.

This alliance is ideal for Cardiff it makes sense, give it a chance.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

No slur on Air Wales intended. But they are an unheard of turboprop airline. Nothing wrong with that. My point was Joe Punter is expecting a Jet like in the adverts and will feel cheated as he straps into an ATR.

Good luck to Air Wales I say. And BMIBaby. And Cardiff airport.

I don't see anyone attacking Cardiff airport. Observing that many airlines have failed to make a go of it there is merely a fact.

Cheers

WWW

[flower]

Many airlines have failed out of many airports, Cardiff is no different.
Air Wales most certainly needs to market itself, it needs to get out there and show the UK and beyond it exists. It is no good believing that simply because the routes are there they will succeed.
It is a great little airline which started three years ago with 1 D228, it now has 4 ATR42s with a 5th shortly arriving. With the right marketing and a good route structure there is absolutely no reason why it shouldn't be a first class domestic and short haul carrier in the UK.
The knockers and doubters I know will continue to dig away at Wales and anything to do with Cardiff Airport but this is a very different airport from even 2 years ago.
Regional airports need to be supported, the rapid growth at Bristol airport shows how it can be done. With the proposed motorway link road to Cardiff Airport a similar growth may be achieved out of CWL.

[CaptainFillosan]

In the old days! There were a few people who had no idea how to run an airline. That....... 'old' Air Wales was an almost immediate distater when it started. One or two others tried and failed. Then someone else came along with a bit of nous. Shame that - it spoiled a good record ;) - but hey, look at it now. Not doing too badly and a little bit of string pulling here and there, a nudge a wink and a getting together is good for everyone. Providing everyone knows what they doing. :O

It is a pity then that there should be posters here who should know better than to put down an operation that is trying to make 'it' work. It serves no useful purpose. Neither does a moderator getting involved. Them that are should, I think, define for themselves another name so that they do not draw forth vitriol and abuse.

So, to the owners and staff of Air Wales. Give it a good go and don't fall in the traps of the past when the originals went down. Be aware of the history and don't make the same mistakes. You got rid of a bad apple recently and that should have made a vast improvement!

And the detractors! Back off! There is nothing wrong with Turbo-Props when they suit the purpose - you don't believe that bmi baby would have joined forces if they thougt people didn't really like t/p's do you?

Good luck anyway.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Whose putting down Air Wales?

My point was that BMI Babys customers might well be displeased to discover an ATR waiting for them when they expected a jet.

Customers have funny ideas about aircraft as I am sure we are all aware.

Cheers

WWW

[CaptainFillosan]

I have to say I think you are.

But to take up your point..............are bmi baby stupid enough not to let their pax know that? I doubt it and I rather doubt that the pax will mind either. I mean they don't go over the pond do they? :*

In all my years in the business I have found that almost all working together's are brilliant IF the people controlling it KNOW what they are doing.

[skyrabbit]

It is generally well known that that the main competition for the bmibaby/Air Wales alliance at CWL is Easyjet at BRS.

Guess who WWW works for?



Is it really appropriate that a forum moderator should make comments such as he has made?........I think not.

Who moderates the moderators here?

Rabbit :hmm:

[St Hilary]

WWW

Sat in an ATR Recently ?

In terms of comfort , i.e seat pitch , headroom etc not a huge real difference from one of your coveted 737's, although granted they are noisier .

But !

At the end of day MOST low cost punters are driven by cost. And as long as the aircraft gets them from A to B , on time and at a decent price, with a good cabin service thrown in as well , most of them proberly won't give too much of a toss what type of aircraft they are on .

As has been said before, can't see what the problem with this agreement is , both parties can only gain from it .

Just amazed at the usual cynical , negative comments that abound on this board these days. All Rather sad really

[MerchantVenturer]

I'm sure he would not ask for it but I am going to defend WWW in this thread.

First, he is not a moderator in Airlines, Airports and Routes.

Second, he is entitled to his view and to express it.

Third, in other threads in the past he has been critical of some aspects of both BRS and easyJet.

Fourth, I am certain that his comments are not motivated by the desire to further the causes of his airline and the airports it uses. In any case easyJet does not operate BRS-ORK and on the BRS-GLA route its main competitor is BACX and not bmibaby/Air Wales on the CWL-PIK route.

According to Bristol Airport's latest research only 14% of its passengers come from South Wales and I believe the percentage of West Country passengers using CWL is even lower. This would suggest to me that the two markets are largely separate.

I am not an industry professional, merely a user of long standing.
Personally, it does not concern me whether the a/c is a jet or a turbo prop on a relatively short haul. I prefer the flexibility of frequent rotations, if necessary on smaller a/c, than a daily service on a bigger jet. In that sense, speaking as an amateur, the theory of the Air Wales/bmibaby venture makes some sense. I hope it does work out.

Who knows, if it is a success, we might see easyJet doing something similar with Air Southwest. :)

[fuzzbear01]

I feel its a shame that ever post on this forum should be negitive about Air Wales .

At the end of the day it is a fledging welsh airline that is doing a lot better and thank the lord for the people of wales not following the lead of many others left in the wake .
With the backing of one major shareholder i think that this new ' marketing agreement' could only provide benifit
for the airline , both economically and marketing wise .
Although WW and 6g were competing on the route previously , 6g were probably suffering low load factors due to competition with a low cost . By going ahead with the code share they have secured the route operation and gained another destination . This now makes Air Wales, TBI's biggest asset at CWL operating the most services and the most revenue.
Friends working for the airline seem to be positive . News of a 5th aircraft , more staff and more routes . This can only be a bonus for them with overstretched resources with FO , crew and telesales it can only provide extra support .
The services i hear will be operated under air wales turbo props with Air Wales OWN livery but operate under a WW callsign .
A lot of bad apple has recently gone at the airline ,both yield wise and higher management , ( ex capitol MD ) and including you Merchant venturer who seems to still be full of opinion as to the direction of 6g .

Good luck to both WW and 6G . It's the first heard of alliance at CWL and can only provide long lasting success for both parties as well as transport from Wales to the EU .

[St Hilary]

MV

Could'nt agree more.

This is not a personal slanging match , and i for one find WWW's posts are intelligent , well thought out and usually hit the nail on the head.

Just disagree with the turboprop thing.

Agree that some pax might have a sharp intake of breath as they pull up beside the aircraft ( most people are conditioned to travelling on jets these days ), BUT as you said yourself as long as the service is cost efiicient ,reliable , flexible , and the timings are right , i think people will continue to use it regardless of the aircraft type.

They are there to be won over !!

The alternative is a 6-7 hour drive to glasgow or a long ferry trip to ireland , know what i'd prefer.

one final thing , the ATR is a newer design than a 737 , it's not a flippin Lancaster !!! :)

[MerchantVenturer]

"A lot of bad apple has recently gone at the airline ,both yield wise and higher management , ( ex capitol MD ) and including you Merchant venturer who seems to still be full of opinion as to the direction of 6g ."

I don't quite follow this.

I am supportive of the venture!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

It suits me down to the ground if Cardiff airport does exceedingly well and if both Baby and Air Wales flourish and expand there. Why? Well, because it means more employment options for me personally. Also it would mean some pilots might leave BRS to go to CWL as they live that side of the bridge - freeing up some space at my current base.

I'd love to see Wales have a successful regional airline of its own as I'm Welsh and have been flying from Welsh airports for over a decade now. I'd maybe like to move back someday - I can't see myself working as hard when I'm 50 as I do now and so maybe a nice turboprop job based in Caernarfon or Hawardan or some such would suit me.

Whatever happens with Baby and Air Wales at CWL has very little impact on the fortunes of Easy at BRS so please don't go thinking I am bashing the competition.

Nevertheless, Joe Public has an irrational aversion to propellers and no airline does seem able to make CWL work in the long term (IT Charters withstanding).

If nothing else it will be interesting to see how it all works out. I'm perhaps a bit more convinced it will work now than I was at the start of the thread.

Cheers

WWW

[speedbird_heavy]

So who will handle them at CWL as Aviance have the WW contract and Servisair have the 6G contract??

[runawayedge]

Sometimes on this forum it's amazing to see people who make valid comments about a project, specifically regarding this one 'how do Air Wales with a conventional type cost base equate with low fare charges', being run down. From a passionate viewpoint it may be a great project, but do the fundamental economics add up? I am with Merchant I don't think they do and it may end up as sharing losses as opposed to profits. I don't think it's a case of knocking......

[MerchantVenturer]

I am not against the venture of WW and 6G. The idea seems to have an attraction and I wish it well.

I have re-read my posts in this thread and I am not quite sure how two separate posters came to the view that I was pouring scorn on the idea.

I have to admit that I have no industry experience nor in-depth knowledge and speak only as an airline passenger who always likes to see airlines prosper. I have a particular soft spot for start-up regional airlines. I am following the fortunes of two in my area with interest and hope - Air Wales and Air Southwest.

[brabazon]

Looks like at least potential passenger feels let down by the new arrangement:

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/bmi_by.htm