Jabiru type of thing

[englishal]

So as not to hijack the other Microlight post....

I have been toying with the idea of something cheapish .......for some cheap fun flying from farm strips / small airfields, day VFR stuff to take the Mrs away for weekends...... I don't think I could convince Mrs EA into anything resembling a microlight proper :D but if it resembled a real plane I would stand more chance......

Now Jabiru's look like real planes, and from the specs they out-perform many simple GA aircraft (172's, Warriors) and would be ideal, seeing as you can pick one up for around £30k (thats what a house mortgage is for). Now my questions:

is a Jabiru a light aircraft as such or is it a microlight?
Does it require a CofA, or is it on the permit system?
if I hold a PPL(A) could I fly one?
Do the hours count towards SEP CoE renewal?
What about maintenance, who does this and where...?
Can I go to the Channel Islands in it?
are you allowed in CAS ?(Class D)...
How much do they cost to run per year (insurance / maintenance etc....)

This is basically becasue the airfield I normally fly from is about an hours drive away, and some days if you just want to fly for fun it'd be nice to just hop over the back fence into the field and go blasting around. If I want to go blasting around at any speed IFR then I can rent.....

Any advice greatfully received!
EA

[Fly Stimulator]

After this I really must do some work!

is a Jabiru a light aircraft as such or is it a microlight? Both versions are available in the UK, plus there is now a four-seater version available in kit form - the Jabiru J400 - which is Group A.Does it require a CofA, or is it on the permit system? Permit.if I hold a PPL(A) could I fly one? You can fly both the microlight and the Group A versions on your normal PPL. If you have the microlight one the hours won't count for your SEP renewal.What about maintenance, who does this and where...? You can do this yourself, but depending on what is involved you may need to get a PFA inspector to look at the results.Can I go to the Channel Islands in it?
Yes in the GpA, no in the microlight because of an oddity in the Channel Islands law. You are meant to have a transponder, but ATC there is very understanding and will let you in without one if you ask nicely first.are you allowed in CAS ?(Class D)... Yes in the UK in both versions. In France you must have a transponder to enter Class D.How much do they cost to run per year (insurance / maintenance etc....) See the various calculations in the other thread!

Jabs are nice machines, but they are small inside. If you're tall or wide you may find them cramped. They are beautifully quiet though.

[englishal]

Hi FS,

Thanks for the information. Could be a problem though as I'm 6' tall? I know what you mean about being quiet, well from the outside anyway. I was sat outside the hut at Oban airfield and suddenly this Jabiru appeared on very short final, hadn't heard it until that point.

It would definitely be a good way to fly, I live in the South and from here there are tons of good places to go (Cornwall / Devon / S Wales) which although would probably take 1-1.5 hrs in a plane take double that to drive. I don't really want to fork out 6-7K per year just for the privilege of keeping a simple single engine ......(was looking at the OMF Symphony TDi which looks cool....flew the 160 in the states and it was bloody brilliant, but need to add another £70k onto the price of a Jabiru which I couldn't justify for just bashing around the UK / N France)

Cheers
EA

[Genghis the Engineer]

By reputation the Jabiru isn't necessarily the world's greatest short-strip aeroplane. You might be better, in the same class, looking at a Sky Ranger (http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/flylight/skyranger/mainframe_skr.htm) or Ikarus C42 (http://www.flybuyul.clara.co.uk/) - both a little cheaper, with bigger engines and better on short fields - the latter can be built legally ready-to-fly, saving you all that tedious mucking about with spanners (or buying second hand). Also neither has too much composite in them, which can be a bit of a liability for outdoors storage.

G

[Evo]

I have been toying with the idea of something cheapish .......for some cheap fun flying from farm strips / small airfields, day VFR stuff to take the Mrs away for weekends...... I don't think I could convince Mrs EA into anything resembling a microlight proper but if it resembled a real plane I would stand more chance......


What's wrong with a real aeroplane then? How about a nice Jodel or Aeronca... :ok:

[englishal]

What's wrong with a real aeroplane then? How about a nice Jodel or Aeronca
My trouble is I don't know my arse from my elbow when it comes to plane types, you can mention Jodel and Aeronica till the cows come home and I still am none the wiser :D Got any pics? How much are they?

The main thing is its got to be "cheap" to run and buy, GpA, STOL (400m strips?), look like a plane, be reasonably strong for when I accidentally abuse it, be reasonably comfortable (for the Mrs) and warm (no funny suits, she wouldn't have that), um...have suitable room for an array of gadgets (turn co-ordinator at a minimum), oh and be able to lift us both with full fuel and a small bag, approx 260Kg....

I tried to convince her (and the bank manager) that a Twin Star would fit our needs but she wasn't having it !

Interesting about the composit materials and the outdoors G, I must admit I quite like composite materials, it gives me a false sense of security which I enjoy when aloft . :D

Cheers
EA

Editied: because after a bit of research on the web I now realise I do know what Jodels and Aeronicas are. Still you learn something new every day, I didn't reaslise the Robin was a Jodel :D I suppose I should pay more attention seeing as I'm going to do an Aero's course in one soon!

[julianharris]

Well I have had a Jabiru now for 2 years and its a wonderful piece of kit. Checking my logbook the other day I have now crossed the Channel 40 times, including several trips to S of France. It's quiet, cheap to buy (for what you get) cheap to run. They are MUCH cheaper than an Ikarus C42 which is probably £8k more to actually have flying and its a fair bit slower, more breezy and more crude than the Jab and parts are more expensive. The Sky Ranger is cheaper but not by much and that's slower than the C42 in terms of cruise. There are 2 sorts of Jab, the UL (microlight) and the 'normal' one which has a shorter wingspan. The Ul is a few kts slower , but mine still cruises happily at 95-100kts ay 14 litres an hour. Can fly without headsets because the engine is so smooth & quiet. I've flown into 375m fields before but a reasonable minimum for regular flying is about 400 - 500 I'd say, depending upon the approach. Now done 420 hours in 2 years. Only problem was a starter motor failure. Hope this helps

[Flyin'Dutch']

EA,

For that sort of money you can either buy a whole or half propa aeroplane, which you can use for some decent touring.

For 30k you can get yourself a reasonable C172 or half a TB10/20.

They allow you to go places and take more than a toothbrush.

FD

Ducking for cover now.

[Evo]

A Robin is a Jodel with the wheel at the wrong end ;) :ok:

Doing aeros on a 2160? Great aeroplane. Where are you doing it?

[Flyin'Dutch']

Evo, darling, you wrote:

A Robin is a Jodel with the wheel at the wrong end

May I point out that the DR 200 series has the wheel at the tail.

;)

FD

[Fly Stimulator]

Flyin'Dutch',

Considering that EA said:I have been toying with the idea of something cheapish .......for some cheap fun flying from farm strips / small airfields, day VFR stuff to take the Mrs away for weekends then a Jabiru is a reasonable match for his requirements don't you think?

It's certainly true that he could buy various GA types for the same money, but from that point on every pound of his flying budget would buy rather less time in the air since a good proportion of it would have to be set aside for licensed engineers, star annuals and Gordon Brown's taxes on all the extra fuel required to go the same distance at not much greater speed.

I know you're just teasing, but I wonder how many 'propa aeroplane' owners have done as much decent touring as Julian has in his Jab in such a short time?

As to the toothbrush issue, not many machines of any class can fill all their seats and their tanks and still take luggage. Legally anyway. Even in a modern GA machine not unfamiliar to you I had to turn down a fourth passenger for my trip to Galway at the weekend, given that I needed full fuel and was operating out of a not-very-lengthy runway.

;)

[Flyin'Dutch']

I know you're just teasing

Found out again!! ;)

You are of course correct when you say that there are plenty of people about that tour long distances in Jabirus or other microlights of that ilk.

All aeroplanes are a compromise of one sort of another and you have to choose that one which fits most of the bill, unless you are a lucky so-and-so and have easy access to a variety of machines.

Have no experience myself with operating or flying any of these new microlights and on paper they look very good. I am not even 6' but having had a peak in Jabirus, C2Ks I know that I would find them a bit on the cosy side for long trips and would not be able to entice Mrs FD to come aboard for a trip of any duration (mind you I hear you think that this may be because she knows my flying skills :D)

PA28s, 172s get a bit short changed when the question 'what shall I get' comes up. But they are good for what they are. A good compromise and known entity for a wide range of pilots for a wide range of missions.

FD

[Fly Stimulator]

Have no experience myself with operating or flying any of these new microlights I could probably fix that. How brave do you feel? :p

[Kingy]

Sorry to butt in chaps...!

How about a Eurostar? now there's a microlight I don't mind. All metal, very STOL and they climb like crazy.

If only they had conventional gear and cost £5 grand, I'd 'av one tomorrow!! :D

Kingy

[englishal]

Thanks for all the replies!

In the ideal world I'd own a C421 or Twin Star or something, but in the UK for private flying this would just be a waste of money, and I couldn't afford it anyway (someone I know is just forking out £90,000 for new engines / upgrades on a twin....I nor my bank manager:D can't imagine paying out that sort of cash to fly around the UK / Europe)...

I don't want a microlight as such, but something I can use to a)keep the mrs happy and b) keep my licence valid, is reasonably fast, reasonably comfortable and is cheap to run....

Like I said earlier I was looking at the OMF Symphony, I flew one a few weeks ago, and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, and decided I wanted one. Trouble with that is I'd have to fork out £100,000 to buy it, then all the costs associated with a CofA aircraft (though mine would be N reg )...

Now if someone wanted to go halves with me then I may re-consider.....:D

Cheers
EA

[WelshFlyer]

I really fancied a Jab, but I can't afford it, what with the commercial stuff as well. Instead I'm building a VP2.

The great advantage with the Jab homebuilt is it dose not takt a lot of time to build it, compared to other aircraft. All you have to do is bond structural comopnents. But in my digging into building a Jabiru, I have found out from others, it can be harder than you think.

You can "pick up" Ex club aircraft at reasonable prices - £10,000 - £20,000. They may have been a bit knocked about but they are good if you can get your hands on the type you trained on. a C150 might not be the ritz, but parts are readily available and you'd be able to see europe flying one. Another advantage is decent radios, avionics, transponder, ect, ect,

Just a thought,

WF.

[maggioneato]

The Jabiru is indeed a nice looking small aircraft, but I am rather concerned about the number of them that are featuring in the AAIB reports. Quite numerous in the back issues, all with collapsed nosewheels, is this a weak point on them?

[tonyhalsall]

I think the first thing that the original poster needs to do is to join the PFA and get a feel for the different kinds of kits that are around. Personally I am surprised that anyone would spend £30K or so on a Jabiru when Europa's go for the same money and seem to be very easily de-riggable, transportable and, so I am told, much more capable.
Why not spend £15K on a C150 and use the spare £15K to offset running costs? You & the missus can go anywhere you want then - but can I just give you a word of advice.
Don't plan your purchase around the fact that your missus has indicated she may go flying with you!! You will make a wrong compromise for all the wrong reasons
Regards
Tony
(Recently single again, but still flying!)