IMC... or not

[Hersham Boy]

This is going to sound like a bit of a strange one...

I've completed all my IMC training and the exam. I actually found the various holds, approaches, nav aid tracking etc. much easier than I expected and the training has without doubt improved my confidence (and, hopefully, ability) in flying.

But here's the thing...

I don't enjoy flying 'blind' as one of the reasons for flying is to enjoy the view, for me! It also made me feel quite claustrophobic. I don't actually need to fly to get from A to B or have any ambitions to fly professionally or commercially. In short, I never plan to fly in IMC.

So should I bother taking the test?

It's another rating to keep current, the cost of the test is not insignificant and should I simply use the extra knowledge that the training has given me to become a better VFR pilot?

I understand the significance of having the skills to handle a situation where I might find myself unintentionally in IMC but that could happen to any pilot - and at least I have some extra training now to help me out of that situation safely?

Thoughts welcomed - am I being short-sighted or what?!

Hersh

[Flyin'Dutch']

H,

My question would be, why not?

Unless the flying in IMC makes you so uncomfortable that for that reason alone you would rather not take it, I see no reason why not to finish what you have started. Or of course if you have a better destination for the readies!

Getting the rating does not make it compulsory to fly in the clag from there onwards!

:D

FD

[maggioneato]

It does seem a shame to have got so far, then not to take the test, you might always wonder, would I have passed? Why not complete the course, then in 2 years time when due for renewal, decide then if you really need it. I could'nt have done all that work, then not completed the rating.

[Evo]

I'm in the same position, although for a different reason. I've completed 14 hours of IMC training, but then my instructor went off on a long holiday. He isn't back yet, and has some airline flying to do once he is, so there's going to be at least another month to wait - and i'm getting increasingly rusty, so more lessons, more money, test fee, approach fee, CAA fee... :(

I'd be suprised to get much change from £500 to get it done, and I've thought about not bothering, especially as most of my flying next year will be on a permit aeroplane (so an IMC isn't going to be much use!). However, there's one time I'd be likely to use it (climbing up above a thin layer of low cloud to find some blue sky to turn the Robin upside down in :) ), and it might be useful for similar reasons if i'm going A to B in a CofA aeroplane. Never really planned on using the rating to tour in the clag and fly an approach at the other end so i'm not too worried that i'm not going to be very instrument current. Going up or down through OVC020 isn't too demanding, but it would be useful to be able to do it.

[FlyingForFun]

Hersh,

Have you ever been on top of a layer of clouds? It can be absolutely beautiful - definitely falls into the "one of the reasons for flying is to enjoy the view" category of flying! Unfortunately, you can't get on top of the clousd without the IMC rating...

I'd say go for it!

FFF
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[RodgerF]

FFF is right, few PPLs would want to make approaches down to 500' agl, however the right to fly on top is not just a benefit it is much safer. Scratching around in ~5-6K vis when you could be in the clear on top is just unnecessary.

Evo, sorry to hear about your experience.

[Fuji Abound]

FFF - totally agree!

One of the greatest pleasures for the essentially VFR pilot is to get on top of a shallow overcast and enjoy the clear air and blue sky above!

You cant legally do that without an IMC so take the test and keep it current.

In terms of keeping it current its going to cost you around £100 to do the 25 monthly renewal BUT you have got to do a bi annual flight with an instructor anyway for which the IMC renewal also qualifies AND even if you dont use the IMC much in the meantime it does give you a potentially vital refresher of flying on instruments in case it happens unexpectedly, which you will not otherwise get. You will know you are not up to a long flight in IMC or an approach to minimium and will be wise enough not to use the rating in earnest.

[Justiciar]

You never know when you are going to need it. You may plan to be VFR all the time, and I agree there is not pleasure in flying in zero visibility, but sometimes it may be necessary and of you need to do a let down through cloud you want to be doing it legally.

You will need to remain current and I would suggest an hour or two with a safety pilot every few weeks to shoot an ILS or NDB approach.

If you are uncomfortable in IMC then thet is an even better reason to continue with the training until you are much happier. If you get inadvertently into IMC, which can easily happen especially this time of year, then you need to be able to maintain control. Some American research showed that the average time between inadvertent IMC and loss of control leading to a fatal crash was 45 seconds. Anything you can do to improve those odds is well worth it.

[IO540]

In my view, IMC Rating students should be told up front that if they want to really use all the privileges, they will need a decent aircraft and do perhaps 20-30hrs/year as an absolute minimum. It will also take more than 15hrs training. So there is a minimum cost which well exceeds the cost of the test. But probably nobody will tell you this; they want your money!

Otherwise, the IMCR is still very useful for those cases where the vis is bad (you can fly on top) or where the forecast is a bit ambiguous as regards visibility etc. The extra navigation skills (VOR/DME) are absolutely worth having, aren't at all hard, and in my view every PPL should do them!

It's a pity though, because e.g. the ILS is such a potential lifesaver. It would be a great shame to lose that skill. I spoke to an RAF pilot the other day; they are taught the ILS in their basic training. If I was training one of my children for a PPL, I would make sure they can do an ILS.

[Keef]

I'd call it a potential lifesaver. I happen to use mine "in anger" quite a bit, and keep it up to snuff as far as my lousy skills will let me, and fly IFR in IMC fairly regularly. But even if you don't, you only need one unforecasted spell of bad weather while you are airborne...

I wouldn't be without one, and would recommend any UK-based PPL to do the rating. There is a mental attitude thing to beware of - it doesn't make you invincible - but used sensibly it is a good safety device.

My IMC renewal "checkride" and my biennial sign-off just happen to coincide, so it's really a "no extra expense" rating to keep up.

The FAA IR, now, that's a different story.

[chrisbl]

I sympathise with the origonal poster. The one thing I learnt from my IMC training and rating was that it was way too limited to be of any real use and my confidence to use it was affected by my own percieved limitations of the rating.

Not having the funds to do the full IR I decided at the time to let the rating lapse.

I am not able to afford to more instrument flying and probably do the FAA/IR. Sure, it will only grant me IMC privileges in a G reg plane thats OK, but there is far more behind it than the IMC rating.

The other thing I like about it is that US regulations apart, the knowledge test tends to focus on really practical things. My recollection of the IMC exam was its seeming irrelevance.

CB

[flyingfemme]

Finish it HB.

It is not only useful for flying blind - it can get you into the air when your departure is marginal and the rest of the route OK. As has been pointed out - you can get "on top" and fly VFR on top legally by using holes in the broken layer.

The skills are useful on a hazy summer day when the horizon is not visible.

Get it and keep "in practise" - it is very useful in the UK.

[IO540]

Chrisbl

The one thing I learnt from my IMC training and rating was that it was way too limited to be of any real use and my confidence to use it was affected by my own percieved limitations of the rating.

Before the school took your money for the training, they should have told you that you will almost certainly need more than 15hrs, will need access to a suitably equipped aircraft to fly afterwards, and will need to keep current perhaps to 20-30hrs/year.

In practice, almost nobody is told these things up front...

You need the above things to fly in IMC, no matter whether you do the IMCR or an IR.

[Evo]

I think the problem with the IMC is that it's different things to different people - on one hand it gives some improved instrument flying/radio navigation skills (that arguably should be part of the PPL given the UK weather), on the other it's an almost-IR, allowing you to tour in cr@p wx and pop out of a NDB approach at 300 feet at the other end (or 600 feet, depending on your reading of the ANO). For the latter, I agree that you need currency and a good aeroplane, but if, like most of us, you don't have that the rating is still useful (if used well within what it - in theory - allows).

If there was a realistic JAR-FCL PPL/IR then I'd argue that IMC should be watered down - teach some decent basic instrument skills so the the 3km viz/in sight of the surface restrictions can be lifted as they are now, maybe teach a letdown or two but with much higher minima (800-1000 ft?) and leave it at that. That way people like IO540 can have a IR to tour with without parting with £10k, and people like me who would just like to escape "in sight of the surface" can stick with the IMC.

[GroundBound]

I'm curious about the comments which say flying with no vis is not much fun. To me, that's one of the challenging things about flying.

As with the last post, I wish there was a JAA rating which didn't require private pilots to be just as as competent as Airline Pilots - which is what the JAA/IR is.

I'm thinking of doing the IMC rating myself, although I can't use it here, just for the extra training and experience it offers.

I'd say go for it, but then I'm biased :)

[Hersham Boy]

Yeah - I'm sold. Got another hour refresher booked and then the test...

Have flown on top once with instructor - remembering that has pushed me through!

Cheers for the thoughts, chaps :)

Hersh