Refrigeration - 747 - 400

[jrudge]

I have just returned on BA10 from Sydney.

On arriving in london the crew said they could not serve breakfast as the refrigeration had broken so all the food was not safe to use.

I queried this as I cannot beleive a 747 - 400 with goodness knows how many gallies can suffer such a failure. Surely each galley has its own refrigeration system?

Can anyone help?


Thanks

Jeremy

[aviate1138]

jrudge said...
'I have just returned on BA10 from Sydney.
On arriving in london the crew said they could not serve breakfast as the refrigeration had broken so all the food was not safe to use.'
Er.....

Some Anti Pom Aussie caterer forgot to load the breakfasts?
Or .... BA on a major economy drive, similar to the appalling 'Deli all Day' Euro area concept.

Aviate 1138
Not flying BA since Concorde's forced retirement.

[Flight Detent]

Hi all,
ERRRRRRRRRR.........Aviate1138, if my memory serves, that BA flight transits via Singapore, and restocks as reqd there.
About 8 hours to SIN, then 14 hours SIN to LHR!
So don't sling off at Aussie services!

Cheers:yuk:

[QAVION]

"Surely each galley has its own refrigeration system?"

Indeed it has, Jeremy. Other than a massive galley power failure, I can't see how all galley chillers (cooling units) could be affected... unless cabin temps were high at some point (say, on an extended stopover in Singapore without cabin airconditioning). The chillers rely on there being a reasonably cool air temperature to start with. On our aircraft we try to cool the cabin before switching on the chillers, otherwise they will show signs of stress.

BA has about 9 chiller units per aircraft.

Some airlines have known problems related to cabin cooling. The all-cabin inseat video systems generate a massive amount of heat which aircon systems weren't designed to cope with. Sometimes it will be necessary to keep an aircon pack running in High Flow to compensate for this... with the aircraft not only suffering due to the extra weight of the video systems, but due to a a loss of thrust with the increased pnuematic (bleed air) demands.

Regards.
Q.

[b777pilot]

from experience, the second meal service is in a cardbox box filled with dry-ice.

it is tightly taped to be opened mid-way thru the flt to thaw and heated. so, where does refrigeration come in? the meal-trays are in the trolley and sufficient dry-ice is supplied as well to prevent the food going off as well.

[Dan Winterland]

Automatic load shedding on the 744 cuts power to the galleys first. Perhaps there was an electrical fault.

[Taking Over, Nigel]

You have X chillers per aeroplane, varies from type to type and airline to airline.
Eg: Qantas have more chillers than BA usually.
If one or more break down the cabin crew can sometimes shift carts to other galleys (like moving from one frig to another) The carts "plug in" to the cold air supply.
Having said that I have seen four chillers break down on one 15 hour flight- thank goodness engines are more reliable!
If your meals were warm perhaps the cabin crew didn't notice the problem with the chiller till too late- or perhaps they were too lazy.- think how much work they'd avoid...... moving AND serving!

[BYOD]

Breakfast kept in Dry Iced boxes. U been had. Demand service recovery. :O

[QAVION]

"My goodness me there are a lot of 'British Airways B747-400 Chilller Experts' on this board who have nothing to do with BA and don't know anything about -400 chillers!"

Probably some of them haven't even seen a chiller, ay, Notso? (Unlike yourself)

Q.

P.S. BA pilot CRM at its finest?

[QAVION]

Well something has to stop some of this totally nonsense speculation, from 'forgetting to load meals' to the meals being 'in sealed cardboard boxes with dry-ice' to 'cabin temperatures being too warm' to 'galley load shedding'. If you don't like the style of delivery, I hate this pprune style of stating rumours and theory as 'fact' as in the foregoing nonsense.
If you have any sounding off to do on BA pilots, I suggest you start your own thread!

Why don't I start it here.... The following message I was going to post earlier, but decided that brevity was the soul of wit (much to my mistake). My comment about BA pilots was a question, not a statement.

#######################

"My goodness me there are a lot of 'British Airways B747-400 Chilller Experts' on this board who have nothing to do with BA and don't know anything about -400 chillers!"

That's very presumptuous of you, Notso... I can't say I noticed your answer on the forum when this message was posted two weeks ago ??? :confused:
I'll be sure to remember this next time I'm balancing one of your 60 lb chillers above my head.

"We managed to retrieve the situation......"

So next time one of your aircraft has a complete chiller failure at a line station, we call you, do we? :confused: Or do we do what you probably did...and call your Maintenance Control Centre?

"...by a couple of visits and resets to the very unreachable circuit breaker that handles the system, but it was initially unco-operative. I don't want to give any further information, but it is not an easy repair and may well not work."

After insulting our collective intelligence, I did what your Maint Control probably did... looked at the BA manuals and found one circuit which controlled all chillers. The circuit includes a CB on Panel P180 (not easy to get to in flight, especially if you've been indulging in those delightful complementary BA sweets/pastries for most of your career...and not legal either... as there are no emergency oxygen masks in that area).

To have only the chillers affected is an uncommon problem, so I'm not surprised there was some oversight by the forum participants. A more common problem is where the Door 5 Crew rest smoke detector circuit triggers the shutdown of the Recirc Fans, Chiller Boost Fans and perhaps even the chillers themselves. Normally the Recirc Fan EICAS messages are noticed first, and resetting the Door 5 Crew Rest Smoke Detector circuit reset button usually fixes up the Recirc Fans and the related items even before anyone is aware of a chiller problem. The reset button is part of the circuit with the CB on P180, so I hope this button was tried first before someone tried to squeeze through the MEC hatch?

For info: Just because a passenger hasn't the whole facts, it doesn't mean that one of the slandered/libelled experts in this forum can't walk onto an aircraft and figure out for his/herself what the problem is (armed with additional visual/aural clues). We're not getting paid, sitting at home to come up with advice....so the only real incentive to come up with answers is when someone does what you did... insult us :rolleyes:

Q.

P.S. BTW, next time one of your pilots questions our resetting of a CB as being a "repair", can I quote you :ok:


##################

Re your latest message.... Believe what you want to. Cabin heat does cause chiller problems on many 400's. Dry Ice is used when chillers fail. Load Shedding (ELCU ops) does cause chillers to stop working. Ask your own engineers about it. Do you really think you know all about chillers just because you had a one-off fault with a chiller system?

'Nuff said, I think.

Q. (Engineer who is required to work on BA aircraft even though he's not paid any extra to do so...or to put up with this kind of sh#t from any BA pilot)

P.S. BTW, have you seen a chiller?

[HotDog]

QAVION, why should you get paid extra for working on BA aircraft? Doesn't Qantas pay you a salary? BA pays Qantas for the service contract.

[QAVION]

"QAVION, why should you get paid extra for working on BA aircraft? Doesn't Qantas pay you a salary? BA pays Qantas for the service contract."

It's essentially true nowadays, Hot Dog, but there was a time when my particular licence payment structure was based on additional airline approvals (up to a limit of 4).

However, having said that, a lot of our engineers recently had their BA authority/approval removed (in an somewhat arbitrary fashion) for the sake of paperwork simplicity. This made some engineers more invaluable than others ...and this not only increases their opportunity to work overtime ($$$), but puts them ahead when it comes to career advancement.

Guess who lost his approval! ;)

Regards.
Q (who finds cleaning dusty, greasy chiller filters on BA one of life's greater pleasures).

P.S. I never thought I'd show any pride in being able to fix "fridge" problems, but... :hmm:

[HotDog]

Q (who finds cleaning dusty, greasy chiller filters on BA one of life's greater pleasures).

Better than emptying oil trays in the DC4 hangar:yuk:

[Captain Stable]

OK guys - enough getting personal already!

Notso, you will have to accept that this is a RUMOUR network. You cannot stop people speculating in the absence of published facts.

Please keep it informative and polite. Failing that, out comes the big stick.

[Captain Stable]

I am reluctant to lock the thread if it ain't necessary - there may be a perfectly valid reason (recurrence of the problem possibly?) later on down the line. If it's locked (obviously!) nobody can add anything.

I shall leave it to people's intelligence to decide what is a valid TechLog type of post and what is a more "Rumours and News" post. TechLog stays put. R&N I shall jump up and down on wearing stilettos borrowed for the purpose from her indoors.